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Post by scooteritch on Jun 14, 2012 9:49:15 GMT -5
Need everyone’s help once again.
I have a 2006 Linhai Aeolus 260 with 15,761 miles on it.
Here is my symptom: The scooter will start the first time around if it has been off for several hours. However, once I start the engine and then shut it off and re-start right after, it will not turn back on.
I have a volt meter attached to an auxiliary power socket that shows me the battery’s voltage. Before starting the engine, it reads 12.8v. Once the engine starts the first time around, it will start reading between 12.8 to 13.1 volts. Once I turn the engine off and try to restart the engine, the voltage drops dramatically when I hold the starter button and you get the sound of an engine trying to start when you have a dead battery. Once I turn the ignition switch back to the off position, the voltage comes right back to 12.8 volts.
Variable: Recently, I swapped out my headlight since the high-beam went out on me. The original light was 35/35W. I replaced it with a 55/60W Sylvania 9003/H4. I was informed by Jim at Sunright that my scooter’s charging system can handle this load. The headlight was installed last Thursday, June 7 but I had scooter out only once going to and from work on Tuesday, June 12. The bike started in the morning when going into work and started right up coming home from work (I did not turn the ignition off right after starting to test since I did not know that this issue existed at that time.)
Testing: In order to eliminate the new headlights, I did remove the headlight and attempted to start the scooter without any headlights. I still had a dramatic decline in the voltage and the bike would not start. After several attempts, all you heard was the clicking sound from the ignition (what you would hear from a dead battery.) Once again, turning the ignition to the off position, the voltage would climb back into the 12.2 to 12.8 range.
Additional note: When checking the battery to ensure that everything was attached to battery securely, I noticed that one of the two cables (excluding my own line for aux power) on the negative post (a thinner gauge) was breaking off at the connection point. When I touched it, the head of the cable broke off. I thought maybe this could be the reason that not enough juice was going to the starter and I rebuilt the cable and reattached it to the battery.
So, knowing what you know now, what could cause such a drain on the battery? Could the starter be going bad and is working intermittently? Electrical issue is not my strong suite so any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Scooteritch
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Post by richardthescooter1 on Jun 14, 2012 12:48:36 GMT -5
When you say it will not turn back on, does it crank? When your scoot is running does it stall?
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Post by scooteritch on Jun 14, 2012 14:26:28 GMT -5
When you say it will not turn back on, does it crank? When your scoot is running does it stall? It just won't crank back up. It just sounds like the battery is dead. If and once the engine comes on, it's good. It has never stalled and the battery is charging because I can see the volt meter showing 12.8 to 13.1 volts. It's almost like some connection is wide open and it just sucks all the battery power out when I hit the start switch. I can see the voltage drop from 12.8 to 8 something and continues to drop like lead weight if I hold the starter button. Once I stop and turn the ignition back to off so nothing is on (like the headlight) the voltage jumps right back to 12.8 volts. Any suggestions?  |
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Post by richardthescooter1 on Jun 14, 2012 15:08:11 GMT -5
Do you have a diode on that scoot, it allows cirrent to flow one direction, if bad it flows both direction, draining your power, does your headlights come on before you start scoot? or it could be your regulator.
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Post by ronlee on Jun 14, 2012 16:33:04 GMT -5
This can be a hard problem to find, but the fact you have a volt meter made it easy. What is happening is you are losing contact somewhere when the starter draws lots of power then when you let up on the starter the connection is resumed and high voltage reading returns again.. It can be as simple as corrosion at the battery terminals or a bad connection internally in the battery. The general way to test for this without a volt meter is if the headlights are bright and go dim when the starter is engaged then go bright again when starter dis-engaged confirms a bad connection somewhere. I have seen several newer batteries with bad internal connections. Try jumping it and if that solves the problem you have solved it as being one of the two I mentioned.
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Post by wile on Jun 14, 2012 17:05:30 GMT -5
Right on Ronlee, one other thing that will make it act like that is a bad ground.
Wile
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Post by bhinch on Jun 14, 2012 17:31:42 GMT -5
Another possible cause could be the battery is internally shorted out.....reads great till a load demand is placed on the battery....do a load check with a battery charger that has a load test feature or take it to the auto parts store and have them check it....
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Post by trigger on Jun 14, 2012 19:34:10 GMT -5
A few more ?
I this the original battery?
Do you lights come on without the engine running?
Now my suspicions...
1. bad battery
2. possibly caused by short in battery or elsewhere.
3. Your charging voltage, if measured while engine is running should be at least 13.8V, mine is well over 14V. Measure it across the battery terminals if possible.
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Post by scooteritch on Jun 14, 2012 21:52:20 GMT -5
This can be a hard problem to find, but the fact you have a volt meter made it easy. What is happening is you are losing contact somewhere when the starter draws lots of power then when you let up on the starter the connection is resumed and high voltage reading returns again.. It can be as simple as corrosion at the battery terminals or a bad connection internally in the battery. The general way to test for this without a volt meter is if the headlights are bright and go dim when the starter is engaged then go bright again when starter dis-engaged confirms a bad connection somewhere. I have seen several newer batteries with bad internal connections. Try jumping it and if that solves the problem you have solved it as being one of the two I mentioned. ronlee - I just had a chance to test the bike tonight. it's been charging for several hours and my charger says it is fully charged. At this point, the voltage reads 13.4 volts when disconnected from the charger. I started the engine and it cranked right up. I turned it off and started it up again and it cranked but with a bit less enthusiasm. I then turned it off and tried to restart a third time. This time, no good. The lights almost went dark when I hit the starter button and then back to full brightness once I let go of the starter. So I did do as you said and just jump started the bike and the bike started right up without any hesitation. Does this mean I have a bad battery? trigger - the battery is not the original. I replaced it October of 2010 with Xtreme AGM battery - XTAX9-BS As for the bad ground, any thoughts to how to pin point this? As stated before, electrical is not my strong subject. However, if it is the battery, this would be a moot point. richardthescooter1 - How can I tell if I have a diode? Finally, my headlights automatically comes on when I turn the ignition to the on position. I have no way to turn it off. I hope I have answered everyone's questions. Thank you to everyone for helping me out. scooteritch |
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Post by ronlee on Jun 15, 2012 10:54:48 GMT -5
I truly believe you have a defective battery and a new one will solve your problem. When you jumped it, it started fine, so that would almost certainly eliminate a bad ground at the engine end of the ground cable. You could still have a bad connection at the battery end though. When you jump it you are connecting to the battery cable itself so there could be a bad connection between the battery cable and the battery post. Clean those first and see if that eliminates the problem. The fact that it started fine with a fresh charged battery and then died tells me it is the battery issue. Again, it is not unusual for a newer battery to fail. Cycle batteries have a very short warrantee for a reason. It has been my experience that keeping a float charger on them will lengthen the life of a battery a lot. I use one on my airplane, ATV and both cycles. I have had good luck with the Schumacher 1.5 volt chargers from Walmart, less then $30.00. They come with a pigtail that can be attached direct to the battery. The other end hangs out in a convenient spot so when you park it can be easily and quickly attached to the battery maintainer.
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Post by scooteritch on Jun 15, 2012 11:39:55 GMT -5
ronlee - Well, I took your advise from yesterday and tested everything and narrowed down my issues to the battery. So, this morning, I took the battery back to Battery Plus and they load tested the battery and it was a bad battery. So, I bought a new one. And, I did come to find out that my battery only had a 12 month warranty. Since I bought mine in October of 2010, I was out of luck. So, $65 later, I have a new battery. I will install it when I get home and hopefully, I will be trouble free for another few years. I am also going to take your advise and attach the "pigtail" to the new battery so that I can just plug it to the float charger when I get home. If this can extend the life of the battery a bit longer, then I'm all in!
Thanks again for your input.
To everyone else - thank you for taking the time to contribute your knowledge to my issue. It is very much apprecaited.
Scooteritch
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Post by unclebuggies on Jun 16, 2012 11:36:19 GMT -5
Scooteritch, I'm not so sure mine will end up being a battery problem. Even when I couldn't get the scooter to crank, the starter did crank when I bypassed the relay and ran the positive cable from the starter straight to the battery. So I think I'm not getting voltage to the relay electromagnet. I just don't know the functions of the terminals connected to the relay to test it properly.
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Post by scooteritch on Jun 16, 2012 13:48:15 GMT -5
Scooteritch, I'm not so sure mine will end up being a battery problem. Even when I couldn't get the scooter to crank, the starter did crank when I bypassed the relay and ran the positive cable from the starter straight to the battery. So I think I'm not getting voltage to the relay electromagnet. I just don't know the functions of the terminals connected to the relay to test it properly. Unclebuggies - Sorry to hear that it's not as simple as a battery. I installed my battery last night and all is good again. Started the scooter several time and I did not have any issues. I certainly hope you will figure this problem out. Keep us posted on your progress on your message thread. Scooteritch |
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