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Post by leo on Jun 3, 2012 21:39:27 GMT -5
well guys i've been eyeballing a bigger radiator for my bike.
the biggest problem i will have is mounting this thing.
if i get the radiator i want i will have to cut the sides out of my scoot.
the good news is that i will not have to relocate anything
the bad news is i will probably not get what i want but will have to settle on something that will work.
i plan on mounting it under the seat.
the "radiator" i will probably get is some kind of "core", one without a pressure cap.
i would appreciate any comments if you have some kind of plan.
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Post by chaz12 on Jun 4, 2012 21:02:56 GMT -5
I thought of doing this too. A larger radiator would mean longer riding without taking any chances on overheating.. But my problem with this, is will it work? It should keep it cooler due to maybe being twice as large of a radiator, thus the coolant would take twice as long to make a cycle. Heard of one guy placing 2 radiators on his scooter and still had problems. So I don't know...
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Post by nulldevice on Jun 5, 2012 20:36:42 GMT -5
Everything depends, but before you start modifying the radiator you should get a thermometer you trust and see if you really have an overheating problem. If it isn't puking steam and coolant out of the recovery tank you don't have a problem. At least not yet.
Don't trust the temp gauge on the scooter until you have checked it against a known thermometer. I used an infrared "laser" thermometer on the head, cylinder, thermostat housing, radiator, and though the gauge on my scooter was showing severe overheating none of the measurements showed anything close to it.
Before you modify the radiator, start by removing and checking the thermostat in a pan of hot water and a thermometer. Look at the inside of the thermostat housing. If it is grungy or has a gooey coating, so does the rest of the cooling system. Reassemble the housing without the thermostat, add water and TSP. Burp it and take a half hour ride while staying close to home. Check inside the thermostat housing. If still messy inside, rinse and repeat until it's clean. Finally, use a good commercial radiator flush per instructions and rinse thoroughly. Reinstall the thermostat if it cleaned up and works OK and see how things go.
Been there, done that, that's what it took, and have no cooling issues. On the freeway or in stop and go with temperatures in the mid to high 90s, about as hot as it gets in NE Ohio, there is no overheating unless there are fan issues.
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Post by leo on Jun 13, 2012 0:04:57 GMT -5
Everything depends, but before you start modifying the radiator you should get a thermometer you trust and see if you really have an overheating problem. i have a decent long probe digital thermometer. don't really know how high it registers though, probably at least 300 F. it runs hot plus my lower radiator has a leak. i'm beginning to think the coolant isn't circulating fast enough. trust me, the cooling system on this bike is a mess. the only way i can put a decent radiator on this thing is to cut out the side panels under the seat. the problem with that is protecting it against dumps and my feet. yes, i know, i'm not supposed to let my bike fall over but hey accidents happen, right? i removed the 'stat as soon as i got the bike home. still have it but i doubt if i will ever use it. |
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Post by justbuggin on Jun 13, 2012 0:11:34 GMT -5
have you though of using a heater core from a car you might be able to find one that is big enough and you wont need to cut the body panels
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Post by leo on Jun 13, 2012 8:00:42 GMT -5
have you though of using a heater core from a car you might be able to find one that is big enough and you wont need to cut the body panels you have to see the bike to understand what i am up against. there isn't enough room for size of radiator i need. this is the reason my bike has 2 of them apparently the chinese thought they could divide the cooling area into 2 separate units and place one in the front and one under the seat. they found that they couldn't so they added "cooling coils" underneath the bike. all of this extra plumbing puts stress on an already marginal pump. yes, a core type of radiator would be perfect. i would keep the radiator in the front because it has the pressure cap. i would place the core in parallel with it using larger ID hoses so it could circulate most of the coolant and use the front radiator to fill the system and relieve pressure. |
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Post by chromestarhustler on Jun 13, 2012 12:14:30 GMT -5
just take it to a radiator shop and see if they can recore them with with something heavier duty.
or look for a better quality radiator, like an atv aluminum.
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Post by leo on Jun 13, 2012 17:26:03 GMT -5
just take it to a radiator shop and see if they can recore them with with something heavier duty. recore the OEM radiator? this thing is not worth fooling with, the entire radiator is tissue paper. i'm surprised it handles system pressure. even the local radiator man said it was rotten. no, i'm replacing it asap. i will keep it only so i know what size OEM to get if i need to. i put a bigger and better quality ATV radiator up front but the same size will not fit under the seat. my forks only clears it by a quarter inch. |
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Post by leo on Jun 15, 2012 13:26:27 GMT -5
found out why the lower radiator is leaking, the fan housing vibrated a hole in it, well a line of 4 holes.
i'll scrub it up and try some JB weld on it until i can find what i'm looking for.
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Post by chromestarhustler on Jun 15, 2012 21:56:30 GMT -5
jesus if an atv radiator for an engine thats twice as big as yours or a motorcycle radiator wont cool it then you have another problem all together.
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Post by EPAhater on Jun 16, 2012 7:19:14 GMT -5
Everything depends, but before you start modifying the radiator you should get a thermometer you trust and see if you really have an overheating problem. i have a decent long probe digital thermometer. don't really know how high it registers though, probably at least 300 F. it runs hot plus my lower radiator has a leak. i'm beginning to think the coolant isn't circulating fast enough. trust me, the cooling system on this bike is a mess. the only way i can put a decent radiator on this thing is to cut out the side panels under the seat. the problem with that is protecting it against dumps and my feet. yes, i know, i'm not supposed to let my bike fall over but hey accidents happen, right? i removed the 'stat as soon as i got the bike home. still have it but i doubt if i will ever use it.
still have it but i doubt if i will ever use it.
That's one of the first mistakes you made, this engine like a lot of others cools more effectively WITH the thermostat in. It regulates the flow for maximum cooling. There are several that used to post here that have modified this scooter's cooling system with success and minimal work one is Cruiser66 he is now on another forum and he has no issues. I myself also did the same with success, go talk to them. |
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Post by leo on Jun 16, 2012 7:56:48 GMT -5
it isn't the engine, it's the scoot.
the design of the cooling system . . . well they didn't design it, they threw it together.
the following is how i think the chinese did this:
they didn't have the room for the right size radiator so they decided to divide the cooling area into 2 separate units.
they put one of them down by the engine and connected the other one with long hose runs in the front on the forks.
this didn't quite work so they added cooling coils underneath the bike.
by this time the scoot had about 9 or 10 feet of radiator hose plus the 2 tonka truck radiators.
there are a couple of things i did that helped a lot.
1. removed the stat.
2. replaced the upper radiator with a bigger one.
3. drilled my CVT case so it could breath. the CVT setup the chinese had was totally ineffective.
these holes weren't randomly placed, i put all of them right over the variator fan so it could suck in air through them
4. replaced the 16 gram rollers with 22 gram rollers. this lowered the engines running RPMs. the scoot doesn't have the acceleration it once did but i finally got the overheating under control well enough that i didn't worry about it anymore.
there 2 major reasons i want to do this mod
1. there is NO WAY i am giving ANYONE a hundred bucks for a radiator for this thing.
2. i would like to get rid of all this unnecessary plumbing.
some of you apparently think the scoot is overheating . . . it isn't.
it used to though.
i couldn't ride it for more than 4 miles without it showing red on the gauge.
epahater,
thanks for the info.
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Post by EPAhater on Jun 16, 2012 15:40:05 GMT -5
Totally agree with the design problems and that's been the history of this model of the 250 with this engine, not the engines fault, heck if you block off a car engine's radiator with a piece of cardborad it'll over heat.
But on the flow with the OEM radiator it has if the flow is too fast then it doesn't have time to cool when passing through the radiator and with this model it needs all it can get. Bigger radiator, adding a radiator helps if you can get air flow through it just by simple adding more cooling surface.
I actually did temp tests with a thermometer with and without the thermostat and it ran cooler with it in. Didn't for one minute trust the temp gause on this scooter.
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Post by leo on Jun 17, 2012 8:34:06 GMT -5
Totally agree with the design problems and that's been the history of this model of the 250 with this engine, not the engines fault, heck if you block off a car engine's radiator with a piece of cardborad it'll over heat. nothing is "blocked off" but i am concerned with airflow through the radiators. my biggest concern in this regard is direction of airflow. which way should i direct the fan airflow? it seems the front radiator would have airflow from front to back but due to to the design of the wheel well it could easily be from back to front. the same applies to the lower radiator, it seems it would be from front to back but due to ground effects it could easily be back to front. the above would not be an issue at speeds less than about 40mph. the cooling coils also present issues. first is the added length of hose runs. second is the ends of these coils have reduced diameters, almost half that of the radiator hose. i will consider replacing the stat when i get a radiator that is "too large". |
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