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Post by bhof53 on May 23, 2012 20:07:44 GMT -5
Newb scooter owner here. Just got my 2008 Aeolus 300 and have a question about the initial coolant change. Had done the initial startup to see if the fan would kick on, and it did, at about 3/4 on the temp gauge.
Feeling confident, I flushed the radiator multiple times with plain water, until it looked like clear water coming out the drain plug. Put the plug back in and topped it off with antifreeze (not the Zerex recommended here since I couldn't find it locally, but the one that the local cycle shop recommended for aluminum engines). Let it heat up and kept topping off the radiator level in the neck as it dropped.
Watched the temp rise, and then when it hit 3/4, it just kept climbing. Got all the way to hot and a little beyond, before I got worried and turned it off. The fan never kicked on.
Am I going to have to tear more apart, or is there something else I can try? Did I make some rookie mistake? I hate to dump that antifreeze so soon, since it was kind of pricey.
At this point, the engine oil, antifreeze, and spark plug have been changed. Was hoping to move onto the gear oil and then brake fluid until I ran into this!
Thanks!
Brent
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Post by torque on May 23, 2012 20:36:55 GMT -5
I'm no expert on the cooling system here but -- I used the Yamaha 50/50 premix in mine. I know these things are prone to developing air pockets in the cooling system as well. There is a complete section here on the Linhai cooling system, I think.
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Post by bhof53 on May 23, 2012 21:30:27 GMT -5
May be solved. I re-read the cooling system post, and had missed the part about bleeding the drain plug once it was started up to let any air/coolant mixture out. Did that, and re-topped off the radiator, and the started it up again and the fan kicked on just over 3/4 on the temp gauge and it started cooling down again.
Thanks for the help! Now if the title would just come, it would be time to ride!
Brent
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Post by ScootForFun on May 23, 2012 21:31:12 GMT -5
Hmm, if that fan kicked on at 3/4, I'd say that's not right, because mine has always come on at a little less than half way. And it takes a very hot day, or sitting a long time at idle, or climbing a steep long hill before it would even go that far. Most of the time it registers nothing on my 300, and runs very cool.
Sounds like to me you've got a total gum up and crud built up inside, and is a typical problem with these when new. They sit a long time, and that crappy stock coolant just gets more and more buildup. The thermostat can get impeded with this, and not be able to open up properly, as well as the air pocket problem. In my "not an expert" opinion, if it were me I'd pull the thermostat and try to force flush the whole system- and that's a formidable job, cause you are going to need to pull the seat pan to get good access to it.
Did you at least disconnect the hose that goes to the water pump, and see what was coming out there? The water pump could have also gotten clogged. When I did mine after 5,000 miles, the stuff that came out was near black. And it took quite a bit of flushing before it finally ran clear. Flushing just the radiator itself will not be enough... But perhaps some of the more knowledgeable people here would have something to add...
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Post by unclebuggies on May 23, 2012 22:18:00 GMT -5
I'm with ScootForFun. My Linhai 300 cycles around 1/4 to 3/8 up the gauge. Could be just the gauge calibration isn't consistent from one bike to the next. But you might want to replace the thermostat to see if it's not opening soon enough.
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Post by cloudsifter on May 23, 2012 22:31:32 GMT -5
I got mine last week and close to the same thing happened. What I did (your mileage may vary) is the first time that I put in antifreeze after flushing (once, twice, I forget) is to have it go up high similar to yours. I never did a flush out through anywhere but the drain plug at the bottom.
I decided since it went up that high that i needed to flush it again. I let it set for awhile to cool off, then opened the drain plug at bottom of the water pump. let it drain till trickle then stuck shop vac in reverse in the top of the radiator and blew until even the brown spray coming out stopped.
Filled up again with water...started up, wait till temp gauge started rising...fan came on, turned off drained again, blew out with shop vac and things were coming out clear now.
Note- just make sure not to blow any 'crap' into your radiator when you have the shop vac in reverse.
I put plug back in, filled up with antifreeze, left cap off, started up, monitored coolant level at the radiator cap (cap off) and topped off a few times as necessary.
Don't rev as it will suck in, then when you let off throttle will blow back out the top.
After I was satisfied things were as they should be now, I replaced cap.
I don't know that I broke any rules here on the forum for that process, but after reading up, that is what I did.
I figured the first coolant dose that I put in was a little premature as after dumping it I was still able to get out some brown after the thermostat had opened.
I decided this was a small price to pay to help ensure that I had ultimately flushed the old brown stuff out successfully.
What came out looked nothing like the blue stuff in the overflow tank.. and at I guess 4-5years since manuf. it is def. a good thing to get all the old coolant out, period.
Bought a helmet today, MCO came in the mail today, setup insurance a couple days ago.
So, I figure I need to register it, find out about inspection. And also take the MSF class here to get the cert. to get the 'M' on my license.
James
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Post by ScootForFun on May 23, 2012 22:51:51 GMT -5
unclebuggies, where on the gauge does your fan normally kick in? I have always suspected that I might have a faulty temperature sensor on mine, but not sure. Seeing as I recently replaced the gauge and there was no change in readings, there may be nothing wrong, not sure.
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Post by unclebuggies on May 24, 2012 5:54:19 GMT -5
It'll kick in around 1/4, and it can take quite a while for it to get that high. If I'm pushing it hard, the gauge may climb as high as 3/8 but not just under light cruising.
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Post by jim63 on May 24, 2012 6:17:50 GMT -5
I read through the initial post and the following posts, ok guys got an air pocket in the system no big deal. The it dawned on me he said 2008 Aeolus 300. Did you get that in a crate delivered to your house. I would be really concerned taking on a 2008, that thing has been in a box for 5 years more than likely. Hate to think about that crappy shipping oil and radiator fluid, what it was doing to the motor. What are the conditions of the seals, rings and other components, that have sat idle for so long. Hope you got a good deal on it, and best of luck with it.
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Post by ScootForFun on May 24, 2012 8:00:08 GMT -5
Jim63, I haven't heard of the stock coolant affecting the seals and rings, it really just gums up and causes these cooling system problems. Congrats to both the new guys who just got these bikes. I know this initial problem seems like a lot of BS to go through, but once you get over this initial hump and get the fluids replaced, you are going to be in for some really good times, and a very reliable engine.
After researching the best fluids for these bikes, I recommend 50/50 Dex-cool antifreeze (non-silicate), and Rotella synthetic oil. I used Mobil One synthetic gear oil, too. All available at Autozone or even Wal-mart, who did have the best prices on the Dex-cool.
There are also a couple of other things to check for both you guys, right away, before you pull out after getting the fluids under control.
1) Tighten bolts. Go over the whole thing, and check, with wrenches, the tightness of every bolt and/or screw you can see. And particularly, the ones holding on the protective plates over the muffler, and the big bolts holding on the wheels. Tighten where needed, BUT DON'T OVERDO IT.
2) Get up under the bike best you can, and follow the muffler pipe all the way to where it bolts on to the engine. Look carefully at that juncture, and be sure that there is no gap in that coupling. On mine I discovered that was not tightened down properly, and there was almost a 1/4" gap! I literally drove this thing like 4,000 miles before I caught it. Once tightened right, the sound quieted down very noticeably, and it performed better, smoother.
You can also wire up the front lights to both work at once on both beams, and it literally doubles your light output, which you will very much appreciate at night. But that's another story...
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Post by WarrenS on May 24, 2012 9:55:39 GMT -5
Instead of using a shop vac, I just used a plastic tube wrapped with a rag and blew with my mouth. I suppose that makes me a blow hard. ;D
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Post by bhof53 on May 25, 2012 9:34:48 GMT -5
Thanks everyone for the input. Yes, this was a new crated 2008 model. The antifreeze must be a definite improvement from the earlier models, as it wasn't really that cruddy when it was flushed initially. I'm going to try taking it out for a short drive this weekend (back streets - ssssh don't tell the cops, since there's no plates) and watch to see what the temperature does.
If there are any issues, I'll pull the hose off the water pump and look to see if there's any crud there. Maybe it will be one of those magical times when getting on the throttle some breaks the thermostat loose and allows the fan to kick on sooner!
Brent
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Post by bhof53 on May 28, 2012 22:09:09 GMT -5
Just an update for everyone who replied to this earlier. Took the scooter out for a spin today. It was about the hottest day of the year so far (around 90 or a little over). Figured if there were cooling issues, they would pop up quick today. Took some country roads and gave it a workout and it never got over 1/2 on the temp gauge. Mostly stayed around 1/4. Pulled me smoothly over some big hills and it's a blast to drive!
Used the MotoMan break-in method, and everything felt great. Put about 25 miles on it today in a couple of trips.
Now I just need the title to get plates, and I'm all ready to start driving it to work. Oh, and wider mirrors. I've got broad shoulders, but I don't want to stare at them all the time when driving!
Brent
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Post by linhai300 on Jun 3, 2012 22:35:14 GMT -5
Now here's how I (burp) or get the air out of the system after replacing the coolant;
Now to get started;
(1) Put scooter on center stand and remove carb/radiator plastic cover under the seat.
(2) Place catch pan under the drain bolt location, remove allen head bolt, then remove radiator cap. [DO NOT LOSE COPPER WASHER ON BOLT]
(3) After coolant is drained take water hose and flush radiator well with clean running water, can even do it two or three times. If you have an air compressor you can even blow out all water completely
(4) Replace allen head drain bolt with the copper washer , a little silicone gasket maker is good to use too, secure tightly.
(5) Fill radiator completely with coolant, a long funnel is nice and doesn't make a mess. [USE ONLY COOLANT FREE OF NITRATES, BORATES, SILICATES & SPECIFIED FOR ALUMINUM BLOCK ENGINES] One can mix their own coolant on a 50/50 ratio but it is a lot easier to use a 50/50 premix (I use Prestone)
(6) Start scooter and let run until thermostat opens and you see coolant start to circulate (this only takes a few minutes) Re-fill until full as the coolant will generally go down, immediately put on radiator cap securely after re-filling
(7) Fill radiator plastic reservoir tank to about 3/4 full with same coolant after putting on the radiator cap
(8) Let idle until the temp gauge comes up to about the 1/2 way mark and then shut off scooter (the fan may or may not come on, doesn't matter)
(9) Go watch TV, read a book, but let scooter sit until it's bone cold.
(10) Remove radiator cap and re-fill with coolant, start engine, let circulate, fill again if needed, put radiator cap back on.
(11) Fill plastic reservoir tank again to about 3/4 full, put on rubber cap and watch temp gauge and see if fan cycles on and off.
(12) DONE!
If for some reason it seems to want to get warm and fan not cycle on and off then repeat steps number 9,10 and 11 again.
You can even run the scooter around the block and see if the fan comes on and off and how the temp gauge reads.
This has always worked for me first time and every time.
________________________________________
These are the basic operating temperature ranges for the 250 scooter thermostat and radiator thermo switch:
Thermostat
Nominal temp. designation....165 deg F
Begins opening......................157-163 deg F
Fully open...............................176 deg F
Fan Thermo-switch
Starts to close (continuity)....... 208-216 deg F
Starts to open (no continuity).. 196-210 deg F
Hope this helps
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