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Post by timk225 on Mar 24, 2012 16:13:06 GMT -5
I unplugged that 2 wire plug going to the automatic choke on the carburetor. This time the multimeter shows infinite resistance / open circuit when testing the 3 yellow stator wires against a frame ground and the engine block. It did show the 6-16 ohm resistance with the choke wires plugged in and the meter touching the frame / engine block.
And I left the meter on DC volts across the battery, and it was speing more time in the high 12's and low 13's now.
Hoping it is fixed!
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Post by macktheknife on Mar 24, 2012 22:14:36 GMT -5
Sorry if it's in the 12's it'll never hang in there when the fan comes on, when it's hot this scooter needs the fan desperately or it'll run hot. With the charging system in the 12's the fan will pull it down to the 10's and that equals dead battery.
This is a 3 phase stator and at 5k rpm it should put out 60AC across the yellow wires from the stator unplugged. If they are not equal at this voltage or higher the stator is bad. This is 60 Ac from yellow wire to yellow wire and not to ground.
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Post by timk225 on Mar 25, 2012 8:22:04 GMT -5
Yes it has that, I wrote it a couple posts ago in this topic.
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Post by nulldevice on Mar 25, 2012 10:24:58 GMT -5
Easy there partner, you have no reason to be upset. You have no charging problem. At 12.7 volts you have a fully charged battery. DAMMIT DAMMIT DAMMIT!!!!!!! Although by keeping the fan off when not needed, and only using the low beam headlights, the battery was still showing 12.7 volts at rest with the key and engine turned off. After I put about 50 miles of driving on it. |
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Post by macktheknife on Mar 25, 2012 15:34:53 GMT -5
Yes it has that, I wrote it a couple posts ago in this topic. Sorry missed that one  But are you talking about the battery being at 12.7 volts or it's only charging at 12.7 volts to a low 13.0 volts? If your battery is holding at 12.7 then for sure you are ok. But if the system is only keeping in the low 13.0 volt range charging then with the fan on you'll be in trouble in a short while, reason, this fan pulls over 3 amps. The charging system on this scooter even though it is a 18 coil stator is weak compared the larger stator linhai which does not have these problems. A complete LED change out will help some but you mentioned the fan already and it's a killer especially since they stuck it behind the gas tank for no air circulation. Some have changed the fan to a lower amp draw one with success. |
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Post by onilegion on Mar 25, 2012 16:48:56 GMT -5
Hi macktheknife, Yes it has that, I wrote it a couple posts ago in this topic. Sorry missed that one But are you talking about the battery being at 12.7 volts or it's only charging at 12.7 volts to a low 13.0 volts? If your battery is holding at 12.7 then for sure you are ok. But if the system is only keeping in the low 13.0 volt range charging then with the fan on you'll be in trouble in a short while, reason, this fan pulls over 3 amps. The charging system on this scooter even though it is a 18 coil stator is weak compared the larger stator linhai which does not have these problems. A complete LED change out will help some but you mentioned the fan already and it's a killer especially since they stuck it behind the gas tank for no air circulation. Some have changed the fan to a lower amp draw one with success. The radiator-behind-the-gas-tank was introduced by HONDA, not the Chinese, and was used throughout the entire production years of both the Honda Foresight (cloned as the Bali style) and the Honda Reflex (cloned as the MC54 style). You can see the placement in the Honda Reflex diagram below.  The vents on the "rocker panels" and on the "belly pan" were designed to help exhaust the hot air that is pushed rearward by the fan. We don't know if you already knew these facts, but since many Dawgs here believe that the radiator placement was due to inept Chinese engineering, we just thought we should clear up that bit of misinterpretation. Sorry to go a bit off-topic, onilegion <>< |
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Post by timk225 on Mar 25, 2012 20:46:41 GMT -5
The battery is sitting at 12.7 with the key off, and I saw charging voltages in the 12.7-13.2 range yesterday I had also unplugged a few connectors and sprayed WD-40 in them (they all looked clean in the first place), and reconnected them.
The radiator / fan layout is pretty awful, there should be some ducting to force air into the radiator.
I'm thinking of installing another switch to cut off one of the headlights for daytime driving, and eliminating those 2 little headlights entirely, they are not necessary and I could fart more light than they put out. They only draw power.
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Post by macktheknife on Mar 25, 2012 21:11:55 GMT -5
Hi macktheknife, Sorry missed that one But are you talking about the battery being at 12.7 volts or it's only charging at 12.7 volts to a low 13.0 volts? If your battery is holding at 12.7 then for sure you are ok. But if the system is only keeping in the low 13.0 volt range charging then with the fan on you'll be in trouble in a short while, reason, this fan pulls over 3 amps. The charging system on this scooter even though it is a 18 coil stator is weak compared the larger stator linhai which does not have these problems. A complete LED change out will help some but you mentioned the fan already and it's a killer especially since they stuck it behind the gas tank for no air circulation. Some have changed the fan to a lower amp draw one with success. The radiator-behind-the-gas-tank was introduced by HONDA, not the Chinese, and was used throughout the entire production years of both the Honda Foresight (cloned as the Bali style) and the Honda Reflex (cloned as the MC54 style). You can see the placement in the Honda Reflex diagram below. The vents on the "rocker panels" and on the "belly pan" were designed to help exhaust the hot air that is pushed rearward by the fan. We don't know if you already knew these facts, but since many Dawgs here believe that the radiator placement was due to inept Chinese engineering, we just thought we should clear up that bit of misinterpretation. Sorry to go a bit off-topic, onilegion <>< No you are right on and I should have stated that the Chinese copied the poor design and the only difference is the engines, being his scooter is the vertical clone and the reflex is horizontal. Thanks you for reminding me. Also some people don't know this but the reflex scooter especially in hot temps has a tendancy to run hot also as the vent design you mentioned just doesn't get enouigh air volume and really suffers when the scooter is not moving and running in extreme heat. I've got a friend who is a Honda mechanic and they never liked the complaints about the scooter running hot because with the fan on all the time it's tough on the battery even on them. |
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Post by onilegion on Mar 26, 2012 0:20:27 GMT -5
Hi timk225, The battery is sitting at 12.7 with the key off, and I saw charging voltages in the 12.7-13.2 range yesterday I had also unplugged a few connectors and sprayed WD-40 in them (they all looked clean in the first place), and reconnected them. The radiator / fan layout is pretty awful, there should be some ducting to force air into the radiator.I'm thinking of installing another switch to cut off one of the headlights for daytime driving, and eliminating those 2 little headlights entirely, they are not necessary and I could fart more light than they put out. They only draw power. You are absolutely correct on the ducting issue. Honda did use side ducting in this cooling configuration on both the Foresight (Bali style) and the Reflex (MC54 style); strange though, we have never seen them cloned on the Chinese scoots. They are simply panels that are placed on each side of the radiator and bridge the gap between the radiator and the body panels. This causes nearly all the air that comes in the front and passes down the sides of the gas tank to be forced or funneled to the front of the radiator. Without them much of the cool intake air simply passes by the the sides of the radiator. The fan surely diverts some of this air in a rather curvy path and draws it through the radiator, but much of the fan's flow ability is then wasted on changing the direction of this air flow. Here is what the panels/ducts (parts 17) look like in a parts diagram:  We think they would not be too difficult to make if someone really needed to improve their cooling capacity, or you can get them from Honda for $24.80 or from Cheap Cycle Parts for $20.98. Keepin' it cool, onilegion <>< |
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Post by macktheknife on Mar 26, 2012 11:37:11 GMT -5
The battery is sitting at 12.7 with the key off, and I saw charging voltages in the 12.7-13.2 range yesterday I had also unplugged a few connectors and sprayed WD-40 in them (they all looked clean in the first place), and reconnected them. The radiator / fan layout is pretty awful, there should be some ducting to force air into the radiator. I'm thinking of installing another switch to cut off one of the headlights for daytime driving, and eliminating those 2 little headlights entirely, they are not necessary and I could fart more light than they put out. They only draw power. That is not a good idea. Without the headlight load on the R/R it will put out excessive power and run even hotter than it does now and burn up in no time. Without a adequate load it shunts all excessive power to ground. You're better off using it. As far as the little side lights they are 5W and you can replace them with extremeely bright LED's and not only have a good extra set of lights but draw nearly nothing in amps and help the charging system too. |
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Post by nulldevice on Mar 26, 2012 18:24:30 GMT -5
At 12.7 volts with the motor and key off you are about as charged as you can get. A big problem with battery charge, especially on seldom used scooters, is the alarm/remote start system. That draws from the battery all the time, key on or key off. I ripped mine out by the roots.
I think that little five watt light in the housing is to satisfy traffic law when you lose a headlight.
If you start modding the electric load, like I did, you will need to get down and dirty with a soldering iron, a big hulk of a heat sink, some high current rectifier diodes, transistors, zener diodes, resistors, and such. Making a DIY regulator helped to pass the time this last winter in study, experimenting, and building.
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Post by timk225 on Mar 26, 2012 19:07:46 GMT -5
Why not give us a schematic and parts list for a seriously heavy duty regulator / rectifier? I can build it, I have done quite a bit of electronics work over the years.
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Post by timk225 on Mar 27, 2012 5:25:25 GMT -5
I checked the battery last night, and after the scooter had not been run for a couple days it was sitting at 12.8 volts.
I got to messing around with the cooling system last night, and I got in there with flashlight and really looked around. The sides, especially the right side, aren't too horrible, but the biggest place for air to leak around and past the radiator is the bottom side. The vents in the plastic floor pan actually start right under the radiator, and there's a 1-1/2 to 2 inch gap between the radiator and floor pan.
So I took 2 old grease rags / shirts and rolled them up, and after some experimenting with taking the back end of the plastic floor plate loose and dropping it down, I rerouted the fuel line around the side of the radiator instead of under it, and I got those rolled up shirts in there pretty well to seal up the bottom side and take up some space on the left side too. This ought to help force air through the radiator a lot more, and the radiator doesn't get hot enough to light shirts on fire. I hope.
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Post by guyn909 on Apr 3, 2012 20:23:48 GMT -5
I have JM Star Euro Star and my battery goes dead in less then a hour I found a 12.77V draw on the battery coming from that red wire with a fuse to the battery. I notice that bike run like crap when that wire is disconnected. Any one else have any help or direction for me to look?
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Post by timk225 on Apr 4, 2012 21:23:20 GMT -5
Putting those 2 rolled up rags under the radiator has helped the cooling, I can have the radiator fan switch off 90% of the time. Only time I really need to turn it on is if the temp goes up while sitting at a stoplight.
If I didn't use the fan the temp might come down but it'd take miles of riding to do it.
So far the battery is staying at 12.75-12.80 volts. I test it each day before I ride it.
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Post by macktheknife on Apr 5, 2012 10:22:27 GMT -5
Don't know where you live but if you ride in 95F plus weather in the summer like I do you'll never survive with the fan off even running down the road. Having to watch the temp gauge and do it manually is very distracting in fact could be dangerous travling down the road?
If you'll change that fan to the less than 3 amp fan that actually pulls more CFM, do a complete LED change out you'll gain enough amps to keep a charged battery and have the luxury of a automatic fan again and a charged battery.
It has done the trick for many.
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Post by timk225 on Apr 6, 2012 18:18:11 GMT -5
Or I could get a heater core for automotive use, and plumb it into the system, like from the thermostat output to the radiator input. A heater core is nothing more than a small radiator, and if I could find a good spot on the scooter to attach it and have it be out of the way, it would provide enough auxiliary cooling that I'd almost never need to use the fan. ;D
My fan switch location up on the handlebars is not distracting and is not hard to get to. It sits atop a little ledge in the front brake line where it goes from hard line to flex tube. And some electrical tape holds it still while the ledge takes the load when I press it to ON or OFF.
A heater core for Chrysler cars of the late 80's and early 90's, such as a Shadow, Spirit, Daytona, Acclaim, etc, would be a great and compact size. And who knows, it'd probably be more efficient than that cheap Chinkenese radiator anyhow! And it'd cost about $30 to $40 brand new!
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hozer
Junior Dawg
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Post by hozer on Apr 18, 2012 15:39:01 GMT -5
My scooter has a charging system problem. It's a 2007 Jonway / YY250T / Viva MP250RO scooter. With the vertical cylinder 244 cc engine. A friend of mine had it before me, and he replaced the battery with an Autocraft 9BS. A few days ago, I went to start it and the started just buzzed. I had been messing with the radio under the seat the night before, and when I lifted the seat, the radio lights were on, so I figured it was left on and drained the batery. I unplugged the plugs going to the radio, since I don't use it anyway, and took the battery to Advance Auto Parts to be 4 hour slow charged and tested. It tested good, with 12.51 volts and 173 CCA. So I drove my scooter about 80 miles between last night and today, when all of a sudden I went to start it and the battery was low again! I got a jump start and drove it home, and by now even the radiator fan was running slow and the starter wouldn't even buzz when I tried it. So clearly this thing isn't charging. I'm going to pull the body panels off and see what I can find out. I read on how to test the stator with an ohmmeter. I have done a lot of electronics work so this won't be hard. Where is the stator located? Inside the right side engine cover? I'll follow the wires and see. Any common problems in this scooter's charging system, and can it be upgraded with high powered parts? I have the same scotter you have. You may NOT have a charging problem!! This scooter does not have a charging system on this scooter. Sucks Huh!! All the battery is for is the starter and thats it!!. I found out from the Dealer that the reason the batter does not last long is because of the alarm system! It will drain the battery. so here is the fix!! goto Home depot and get a 20 amp flip switch. it has to wires in it. Put 1 wire on the battery and the other to the "RED" battery wire. With you want to start your scooter turn the switch on. When you have started then turn the switch off. That way you wont wear out the battery. It works for me........Just a suggestion! |
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hozer
Junior Dawg
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Post by hozer on Apr 18, 2012 15:40:56 GMT -5
My scooter has a charging system problem. It's a 2007 Jonway / YY250T / Viva MP250RO scooter. With the vertical cylinder 244 cc engine. A friend of mine had it before me, and he replaced the battery with an Autocraft 9BS. A few days ago, I went to start it and the started just buzzed. I had been messing with the radio under the seat the night before, and when I lifted the seat, the radio lights were on, so I figured it was left on and drained the batery. I unplugged the plugs going to the radio, since I don't use it anyway, and took the battery to Advance Auto Parts to be 4 hour slow charged and tested. It tested good, with 12.51 volts and 173 CCA. So I drove my scooter about 80 miles between last night and today, when all of a sudden I went to start it and the battery was low again! I got a jump start and drove it home, and by now even the radiator fan was running slow and the starter wouldn't even buzz when I tried it. So clearly this thing isn't charging. I'm going to pull the body panels off and see what I can find out. I read on how to test the stator with an ohmmeter. I have done a lot of electronics work so this won't be hard. Where is the stator located? Inside the right side engine cover? I'll follow the wires and see. Any common problems in this scooter's charging system, and can it be upgraded with high powered parts? I have a 2011 Y250T scooter. You may NOT have a charging problem!! This scooter does not have a charging system on this scooter. Sucks Huh!! All the battery is for is the starter and thats it!!. I found out from the Dealer that the reason the batter does not last long is because of the alarm system! It will drain the battery. so here is the fix!! goto Home depot and get a 20 amp flip switch. it has to wires in it. Put 1 wire on the battery and the other to the "RED" battery wire. With you want to start your scooter turn the switch on. When you have started then turn the switch off. That way you wont wear out the battery. It works for me........Just a suggestion! |
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Post by macktheknife on Apr 18, 2012 21:21:13 GMT -5
You can unhook the alarm with no problem at all, easy and simple and yes this scooter does have a charging problem. It's 18 pole stator is smaller than the linhai and the fan pulls almost 6 amps. Thr R/R is also limited compared to others, several have went different directions on the R/R
And timk225 any switch that you have to turn on when having to watch the temp gauge while riding this scooter can and is distracting. Just a split second of looking at the gauge instead of the road has been proven deadly in just about anything that moves down the highway.
The second radiator has been done with some with some success but again if you're in a very hot summer enviroment it's not that helpful. By changing the fan to a lower amp draw one, changing to LED's and if you can get some more air to it you'll have a lot better success.
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Post by rcq78 on Apr 19, 2012 7:48:45 GMT -5
To unhook the alarm system all you do is unplug it???
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Post by nulldevice on Apr 19, 2012 9:43:03 GMT -5
hozer, the scooters do have a charging system. It's just when things aren't right that you don't have a charging system.
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hozer
Junior Dawg
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Post by hozer on Apr 19, 2012 17:24:30 GMT -5
hozer, the scooters do have a charging system. It's just when things aren't right that you don't have a charging system. Thats what I was told from the dealer! Like they told me the battery is just there to start the scoot thats all. When I turn off the battery the lights still work fine! |
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Post by sc150rider on Apr 20, 2012 13:55:29 GMT -5
hozer, if you keep the battery off all the time when the scoot is running, you WILL eventually have a dead battery, as the charging system is also actually used to CHARGE the battery; as in to replace the energy used to start the scoot.
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Post by apcutts51 on May 5, 2012 13:43:49 GMT -5
i had the same charging problem for a few days, now im not getting any voltage at all but the batt is reading 12.4 through multimeter. fuel gauge wont even read any ideas?  |
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Post by timk225 on May 23, 2012 12:40:07 GMT -5
I think I messed up my voltage regulator yesterday. Since the last work on the charging system, I have had no electrical problems. I am always watching the temperature gauge, and the fan is on only when needed, to keep the gauge below halfway. I use that switch I put in a lot!  However, in the past week, I voltage tested the battery, and it had gone from 12.7 volts to 12.5 to 12.2 . We have had warm weather lately, and I was on the highway a lot, so the fan was on pretty much all the time. So yesterday I knew I had a lot of highway running to do, about 130 miles worth. I had the bright idea to pull the front plastic piece off that is below the windshield and disconnect the headlights! The goal of this was to charge up the battery, and with the headlights off and the fan off I was showing 13.2 volts acros the battery. With the fan on I still had 12.8-12.9 volts. Enough to charge it up! I also tested the volts with only one headlight disconnected, but in the end I left them both unplugged, so neither the headlights or those stupid useless little side headlights were on. If the headlights are 35 watts each, and maybe 10 watts for those little lights each, I was putting about 90 watts, or roughly 7.5 amps into the battery to charge it. So I did all my driving and the fan was on about 80% of the time. Towards the end I stopped to refuel, and it barely cranked over to start up! Then like an idiot I shut it off and tried again. BZZZZZZ BZZZZZ.. DEAD BATTERY!!!! So I called the Advance Auto Parts a 1/4 mile down the road and had them come give me a jump start. I drove the scooter home 8 miles and tested the battery. 11.35 volts.  I tested it more today, and it doesn't charge much, if any. Wouldn't even hit 12 volts with the headlights and fan off. I could try swapping in the original regulator and hope that somehow it wasn't bad and I misdiagnosed it all, but I doubt it. |
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Post by srphatness on Jul 2, 2012 19:45:36 GMT -5
Hey TMK225.
My scooter is doing the same thing. It holds about 13V until the fan kicks on, then it drops down to about 12.2V.
Did you ever figure out what the problem was? Is it working better now that you have hard wired a switch in series with the fan? Please let me know
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Post by srphatness on Jul 2, 2012 20:12:05 GMT -5
also guys.
Where do you find these replacement fans that only draw a few amps? I think that might solve my problem.
Thanks guys
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Post by 22cents on Sept 7, 2012 14:44:04 GMT -5
Yeah.
I may have a similar problem with the fan. Every time the fan kicked in, I was experiencing power lose.
Thanks
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But are you talking about the battery being at 12.7 volts or it's only charging at 12.7 volts to a low 13.0 volts? 
