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Post by P<0.05 on Jul 6, 2007 16:38:50 GMT -5
Scoot is a Roketa Carpi 150. Yeah, that's right, a Carpi. Not a Capri. At least the stickers on the bike and the label on the crate said Carpi, though the website did say Capri...
OK, so I've got about 600 miles on it. I've already changed the oil twice, once when I first got it and then at 400 miles.
I meant to change the spark but didn't have the right tools and then I started traveling for work a lot and never got around to it.
Has factory battery and fuse.
So, today I drove to work and then to a doctor's appointment. After the appointment I got on my scoot and tried to start it. It made this weak, pathetic noise of turning over but didn't turn over. Then it stopped altogether. It only clicks one time when you press the start button.
I tried the kick start but it's like it's frozen. It won't budge past about 2 inches of motion. Even my big strong husband, who came to pick me up, couldn't get it to move even by standing on it.
So, I locked the forks and the back tire and left a note on it for the security guards at the parking deck that it was broke and I was coming back to get it in a day.
Can anyone give me any ideas of what is wrong with it? Bad spark? Fuse? The battery has juice....all the lights work, etc. When I press the start button all the lights dim and the gauges fall a little, but they might always do that....I don't seem to remember...
I hope it's minor and I can fix it myself in the parking deck and drive it home....
Any help is appreciated and I will be happy to answer any more questions if you need more info.
Thanks,
Jen
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Post by swampsniper on Jul 6, 2007 16:47:13 GMT -5
It doesn't take much to make the lights glow, so your battery may be dead enough not to spin the engine. It could also be dirty battery connections. Not turning over with the kick starter is another thing, take a look at the oil, the engine may be flooded with gas, from a bad vacuum valve.
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Post by P<0.05 on Jul 6, 2007 16:50:25 GMT -5
Hi swampsniper and thanks for the reply.
The main reason I couldn't start with the kick is I couldn't get the kick to kick! That worries me, too, though maybe it's unrelated? Or perhaps it's definitely related.
So, would you recommend I head out there with a new battery, spark, and fuse and give it a go?
How would I check to see if the engine is flooded? I don't think that's the case, though. Can that happen just by driving it? I didn't lean on the throttle when I was trying to start it. Usually it starts up with no input from the throttle...
There was no warning for this, either. It was working just fine, or at least I didn't notice anything funny about how it started up before....
Thanks, again,
Jen
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Post by RetroAJ on Jul 6, 2007 17:00:17 GMT -5
If you can't get it to move with the kick starter, that sounds like hydraulic lock, or a broken rod. If it is hydraulic lock, pull the spark plug. Then if it kicks over, with much gas coming out of the spark plug hole, that was the culprit. If it is a broken rod, it still won't budge. But I'm going to lean away from that and more towards hydro lock from a bad petcock.
*A J*
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Post by scottfla on Jul 6, 2007 19:03:32 GMT -5
I hope you get it fixed easily but about your Roketa saying 'Carpi' instead of 'Capri': My friend's Roketa says 'Limited Editlion' on it.
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Post by swampsniper on Jul 6, 2007 19:10:04 GMT -5
Hi swampsniper and thanks for the reply. The main reason I couldn't start with the kick is I couldn't get the kick to kick! That worries me, too, though maybe it's unrelated? Or perhaps it's definitely related. So, would you recommend I head out there with a new battery, spark, and fuse and give it a go? How would I check to see if the engine is flooded? I don't think that's the case, though. Can that happen just by driving it? I didn't lean on the throttle when I was trying to start it. Usually it starts up with no input from the throttle... There was no warning for this, either. It was working just fine, or at least I didn't notice anything funny about how it started up before.... Thanks, again, Jen If you pull the dipstick and the oil level is way too high, and smells like gas, it means that the auto fuel valve didn't shut off. You will have to repair the valve and do an oil change.
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Post by P<0.05 on Jul 6, 2007 23:38:14 GMT -5
Hi All, thanks for all the responses! I'm going to start with changing the battery and then move to checking out the spark, then smelling the oil, etc.
AJ, is a petcock hard to change out? Need any special tools? Or just a new petcock and a ratchet set?
And Bob, how about that fuel valve? Same question?
I'm more than willing to spend a weekend fixing her myself as long as it doesn't involve buying a torque wrench or some hydrolic tools....
scottfla, that's hilarious! Limited Editlion. See, since mine was a Carpi I call my scoot Carpi Diem. Your friend can call his/hers Lion Edit (like Line Edit) or the Editted Cat...
The translation from Chinese to English sometimes results in funny stuff...like sparkle plug instead of spark....
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Post by swampsniper on Jul 6, 2007 23:57:31 GMT -5
Many times the petcock just hangs on the tubing. Some screw into the bottom of the fuel tank, some mount to the frame with a bolt. Petcock and fuel valve are the same, just different terms. It may be fine, just when the engine seems to suddenly lock up it is the place to start looking.
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Post by P<0.05 on Jul 7, 2007 5:03:16 GMT -5
Thanks, again, Bob!
I've got to go out of town today but I will be back tomorrow. I'm goign to try to get her started then. The security at the parking garage said Carpi should be fine there over the weekend. It's in the parking tower at a hospital so it's never shut down over the weekend. And Carpi has a note on her that says she doesn't work, with my contact info, and that I'm picking her up by Sunday. AND she's got locked forks and back tire....
However, this is the city of Atlanta...and the parking tower is in downtown Atlanta....
I'll let you know how it went,
Jen
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Post by RetroAJ on Jul 7, 2007 9:46:08 GMT -5
Jen, I'm not sure about the petcock on your scooter. I'm assumming you have the tank under the seat. I have the tank under the floorboard, so I have no visual to help you with. It is vacuum controlled, and will be in the fuel line as stated before, or screwed right to the bottom of the tank. You will just have to take a look and see what you have and go from there.
*A J*
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Post by vonspyder on Jul 7, 2007 23:16:22 GMT -5
oh a fellow atlantian eh? hope it works out. right now battery is dead on mine too, luckily my kick start is working (which truly amazes me) is yours designed with the rear lift stand in the way of the kick start?
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Post by RetroAJ on Jul 8, 2007 11:17:53 GMT -5
I think all GY6 engines are that way. It is a safety feature so that the scooter must be on the rear stand when you start it. That way, since you are not on the scooter, there is no chance of it taking off and crashing when stupid people try to start it with alot of throttle.
*A J*
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Post by vonspyder on Jul 8, 2007 13:37:07 GMT -5
true, its make a great youtube video though.
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Post by Andi on Jul 8, 2007 14:01:24 GMT -5
So, today I drove to work and then to a doctor's appointment. After the appointment I got on my scoot and tried to start it. It made this weak, pathetic noise of turning over but didn't turn over. Then it stopped altogether. It only clicks one time when you press the start button. I tried the kick start but it's like it's frozen. It won't budge past about 2 inches of motion. Even my big strong husband, who came to pick me up, couldn't get it to move even by standing on it. So, I locked the forks and the back tire and left a note on it for the security guards at the parking deck that it was broke and I was coming back to get it in a day. Can anyone give me any ideas of what is wrong with it? Bad spark? Fuse? The battery has juice....all the lights work, etc. When I press the start button all the lights dim and the gauges fall a little, but they might always do that....I don't seem to remember... I hope it's minor and I can fix it myself in the parking deck and drive it home.... Any help is appreciated and I will be happy to answer any more questions if you need more info. Thanks, Jen I wonder if your starter burned out and seized, that would explain an otherwise strong battery allowing all electrical functions to work but then the lights dim when engaging the starter. Because the starter can't move it will draw a lot of amps, leaving the starter engaged will burn wires, terminals and/or the switch etc. If the starter is engaged and stuck, it would also explain why the kick starter doesn't work, the starter would have to be removed completely. Good luck, hope you find the problem. Andi
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Post by evilweevil on Jul 8, 2007 18:04:34 GMT -5
Hay ::)Jen, The kick starter on my Tank, GY6 had a big burr on it from the "factory"? I had to use a Dremmil tool to hand cut the gears, It works great now. It would not move before, I could stand on it!! (230#) Good luck there, Check your battery, and check for a good ground!!
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Post by P<0.05 on Jul 8, 2007 18:15:56 GMT -5
Hi AJ and Andi,
I just got back home from picking up the scoot. I got there and tried to start it and got the same click noise. Then I put a brand new charged battery in it ($55 battery, too...) and it's no go. Same symptoms. When I hit the start button I hear a distinct single click...each time I hit the button. Sounds like a regular house light switch being flipped. So, my husband picked it up and put it in the back of our minivan and we carted it home.
So, it the most likely culprit that I have a bad starter? How can I further diagnose that? Will I need to replace it? Is it something I can do myself by ordering it and using a plain old ratchet set?
Or could it be hydralock? I checked the oil and it did seem high and I thought it might smell like gas. But, then, the scooter itself smells like gas when I sit on the ground next to it. Or is that further evidence? How can I check more definitively to see if it's hydralock? Would that be were I pull the spark and crank the kick to see if gas comes out? And if so, does that mean, draining/replacing the oil, replacing the petcock, and voila I'm go? And if so, where can I get the proper petcock?
AJ, my gas tank is in the floor, too.
vonspyder, yep, from Atlanta. I live in Candler Park, near L5P. Nice to see a neighbor on the forum. And yeah, you can't use the kick unless it's on the center stand. I sort of figured, like AJ said, that it was a safety feature. Though my intuition when I first got it was that I'd want to kick it like a motorbike....
Thanks, guys, for all your help! If you can be patient with me further I might earn some stripes as a scoot owner!
Jen
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Post by swampsniper on Jul 8, 2007 18:29:58 GMT -5
If the tank is below the engine you won't have hydraulic lock. Try jumping the 2 large lugs on the starter relay with a screwdriver blade.
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Post by P<0.05 on Jul 8, 2007 18:43:43 GMT -5
What does that mean....jumping the 2 large lugs on the starter relay with a screwdriver blade? I don't know the lingo....jumping means...?
evilweevil, how did you do that? Do I take off the side panel and it should be obvious? If I remember correctly, though, my husband tried to kick it the first day we got it. And I remember that's when we realized the center stand was in the way and you can't kick it like a motorbike. So, I don't think I have the same problem as you because I think the kick did work at one time....
Thanks, all,
Jen
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Post by swampsniper on Jul 8, 2007 18:56:14 GMT -5
What does that mean....jumping the 2 large lugs on the starter relay with a screwdriver blade? I don't know the lingo....jumping means...? evilweevil, how did you do that? Do I take off the side panel and it should be obvious? If I remember correctly, though, my husband tried to kick it the first day we got it. And I remember that's when we realized the center stand was in the way and you can't kick it like a motorbike. So, I don't think I have the same problem as you because I think the kick did work at one time.... Thanks, all, Jen The relay looks like this. There are two large lugs on it, use a screwdriver or pliers and touch both at the same time. If the starter turns you have eliminated it as a problem, and can move on to other possibilities.
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Post by P<0.05 on Jul 8, 2007 19:08:38 GMT -5
AH, I see. OK, it's getting too late to do that now but I will try to see if I have time after work during the week (while I've got enough daylight and not taking care of parental duties....).
I've got to locate the starter relay on my scoot....
Thanks for your help!
Jen
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Post by P<0.05 on Jul 8, 2007 19:22:55 GMT -5
OK, so that was easy to find (I just couldn't go fold clothes and finish cooking dinner...I had to go check this out.
Anyway, so I did what you said and it sparked a lot and make the same loud clicking noise. But it didn't crank...unless I have to do something very specific.
Here's what I did:
Took off the seat (which, by the way, has a large crack in the compartment...and one bolt that holds it down is worthless because the plastic between the bolt and the frame is gone...).
Hooked the battery back up (red on positive, black on negative).
Took my screwdriver and held it against both lugs.
Sparks flew. There was a low-pitched whining noise. And the click/knocjk (it's louder than a click when the seat is off).
Tried it a few times, left weird marks on the screwdiver.
No crank.
What's the Dx? Bad starter?
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Post by swampsniper on Jul 8, 2007 20:37:22 GMT -5
The starter should have spun the engine, so either the starter is bad, or the engine is locked for some reason.
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Post by P<0.05 on Jul 8, 2007 20:48:48 GMT -5
Hi again, swampsniper.....can you recommend a next diagnostic step?
How can I rule out a locked engine?
Thanks,
Jen
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Post by beaugator on Jul 8, 2007 21:09:15 GMT -5
I think the next step should be to remove the spark plug and see if the motor will kick over using the lever. I'm thinking though that your problem is the starter gear has gone bad and locked up the motor and that's a "take it to a mechanic" kinda thing. That may not be the problem as diagnosing over the internet is difficult at best, but there are only so many things that effect the starting system. Keep us posted....
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Post by swampsniper on Jul 8, 2007 21:37:42 GMT -5
Hi again, swampsniper.....can you recommend a next diagnostic step? How can I rule out a locked engine? Thanks, Jen Don't know how you are fixed for tools. I would use a socket wrench on the right end of the crankshaft and see if the engine will turn freely, if not I would remove the spark plug and try again. It is a process of elimination.
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Post by P<0.05 on Jul 8, 2007 21:46:32 GMT -5
Hi beaugator....gee, I hope I can fix it myself. I don't know if there is anyone around here who will work on a scoot they didn't sell....
OK, based on wat beaugator and Bob are saying I am going to try these things tomorrow afternoon.
To see if the engine is locked I'll try to turn the engine (I have a full ratchet set with deep sockets and I have a specific spark wrench) at the crankshaft.
If not, I will remove the spark and try to turn it again.
And then I will come back here and let everyone know what's going on.
I really appreciate everyone's attention to my problem. While it's a bummer that my scoot won't run I do like the idea of fixing it myself. I've no experience with engines but I've always been handy (I can re-wire an electrical circuit, tile floors, build custom hardwood cabinets, and other household handiness...) so I hope to add some mechanical skills to my toolbox....
Jen
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Post by Aaron on Jul 8, 2007 22:45:24 GMT -5
Jen, because it was running fine, and then you went into the doctors office, came out and it was locked up I'm going with the hydraulic lock. You say you smell gas and that the oil level seem full. Drain engine oil and remove spark plug. Try to push down the kick lever or turn engine with a wrench. Fuel may come out of the spark hole so make sure key is off and battery is disconnected so you make no sparks! If it moves kick it over till it seems dry... no vapor shooting out of spark plug hole. Then have husband lift up front of scoot and make sure no gas was pushed into exhaust pipe while kicking. Then refill oil, replace plug, and hook battery back up. Start as normal. If it works then the fuel is pushing toward the carb "and" the needle valve is defective or float in carb is stuck... thus allowing fuel to get into cylinder. But you say fuel Tank is in the floor and not under the seat and I'm kinda at a loss on that. Only way for this to happen is if fuel pump kept pushing while you were in the doctors office. Anyway try that and if it works we'll try to help you fix the carb and fix the pump.
Aaron
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Post by P<0.05 on Jul 9, 2007 8:50:26 GMT -5
OK, I'll try this first this afternoon.
Total noob question....exactly what's involved with turning the engine with a wrench? When it was mentioned earlier I was thinking, oh, okay, that makes sense...if the engine won't turn then it's locked, right? And now I am realizing that no matter how much sense it makes it still doesn't mean I know how to do it... So, where exactly do I put my wrench? Do I need to remove all the body panels for better viewing?
Yeah, the tank is in the floor. When I gas her up the nozzle goes into the curve between the floor and the seat and I can see the gas in the tank by looking into it...so the tank is below the engine.
So, I'll try this diagnostic this evening and get back to you. Thanks!
Jen
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Post by swampsniper on Jul 9, 2007 10:13:02 GMT -5
You can usually access the nut on the right end of the crankshaft without removing the plastic shroud. A wrench on the nut should easily turn the engine. Make sure the ignition is off. Shot with timing marks has shroud and fan removed, don't usually need to go this far to turn engine.
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Post by P<0.05 on Jul 9, 2007 10:47:46 GMT -5
Thanks Bob, I think I understand...you mean the nut in the center?
Shouldn't be too hard....
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