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Post by mykul on Oct 14, 2011 6:12:56 GMT -5
Hello! My name is Mike, I live in Virginia and I have just bought my first Chinese scooter - a Jonway - and am beginning to wonder what I've let myself in for!
I've ridden two wheelers all year round for the last 50 years and have switched away from motorcycles and my beloved faithful Vulcan 1500 because the weight is getting too much for my skeleton which hasn't benefitted from all those years of riding.
So far, so good, the Jonway appears to be everything I hoped for except it could use a bit more torque, I'm quite happy with the 35mph top end on these narrow country lanes. I think of it as a motorized bicycle and have adapted my attitude to riding.
I do hope it doesn't give me any of the problems I've been reading about but many years of British motorcycles have prepared me for fixing most things.
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Post by chettm on Oct 14, 2011 6:40:30 GMT -5
Welcome aboard Mike. This is a great site for all your scooter needs. Be sure to get some pictures up so we can all take a look. Don't forget to do your PDI for lots of miles.
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Post by ♣Luke♣ on Oct 14, 2011 7:57:12 GMT -5
Hello Mike!! welcome!,,transition from vulcan to a scooter is tough,you need to deal with some adjustments,,definitely the torque and the speed will become a thing of the past... scooters nowadays can be as small as 50cc 125cc, 150cc or as large as 250cc,300cc,400cc,500cc,600cc,650cc,and even 700cc (bmw) i'd say scooters is an all around,versatile mode of transpo. and best of all,it's real gas saver. good luck! and again welcome to the world of twist n' go.
♣Luke♣
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Post by mykul on Oct 14, 2011 8:09:11 GMT -5
Chettm - I bought my scooter ready to ride from a place on Chincoteague that rents out scooters. It already had 100 miles on it and now I have 300 miles on it. I don't understand your remark about doing my PDI?
I was thinking to do an oil change at 500 miles which I thought was too early if anything, being over cautious?
I do have a couple of thoughts so far. Firstly there's a slight rotational graunch, very slight, it feels like a bicycle tyre might if it was rubbing a high spot. I checked the wheels they seem fine, I thought it might be disc brake pads.
Secondly the handlebars feel twitchy almost as if the head bearings were loose but they aren't. Its a back and forth vibration, very small, might just be wheel chatter or flexing of the forks or steering tube.
Both are barely perceptible not worrying enough to instigate a real search for the problem if any.
I'm trying to do a responsible 'break - in' but at my weight of 210 lbs the scooter has to be ridden pretty much WFO to maintain 30 indicated.
I need more torque, perhaps a big bore kit might be the answer? I bought this 50 for the freedom from DMV bull and for my wife and I to ride the ten miles or so to the shops. She's a big girl too though not as heavy as me!
If I have to resign myself to bicycle speeds two up I will because from all I've been reading here it seems like 'tuning' is a can of worms and I'd rather have longevity of engine than gain a few mph.
The Chinese quality issues make me leery of doing anything that might jeopardize the bottom end, at the moment the scooter is running well so why mess with it?
However I recall from my youth that the 50cc NSU Quickly moped would reliably do 45mph so I don't think a more modern engine design should be overstressed by asking for the same?
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Post by ♣Luke♣ on Oct 14, 2011 8:27:09 GMT -5
Mike,are you ready to become one of these?---> youtu.be/jRUSpjmeJZA ,,,,,,if yes,,then your'e in!!! Welcome to the Club!!!! ;D ;D ;D
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Post by Pony66 on Oct 14, 2011 8:40:57 GMT -5
Welcome to the forum and your scooter. We usually advise everyone to do a PDI on a scooter purchase. Basically, you go through and tighten and check the connections. As you know already, on 2 wheels things vibrate loose. But sometimes they put the fuel filter upside down and odd things like that.
Everybody wants a little more power, and should. You will always get the advise, "get a bigger scooter." However there are some fun and cheap mods you can to for a little more power.
A BBK is a great idea. An 80cc kit, actually 72cc, is a good choice. The motor was designed at this cc, so your not hurting the bottom end. I bought the $60 kit from scrappydogscooters. I can react to traffic and keep up with the cars in town. IMHO, the small power increase was well worth the money.
Another inexpensive thing is to change roller weights in your Variator. If you lower the weights, your RPM goes up. Dropping a couple grams and switching to slider style weights can help hit your powerband better. You just dont want to lower the weights so much you rev right past the powerband. 5 or 6 grams seem to be peoples favorite for a 50cc.
Also consider a performance variator. There is a great one by Polini but I went the cheap route with a Koso. They have curved ramps that are taller than stock. This pushes your belt higher. So effectivly you gain a tiny bit of top speed. The curved ramps make it smoother as well.
Finally you would need a larger main jet in the carb. Most scooters come a bit lean anyway. These mods will give you quite a bit more torque. All together these would probably cost about $120. Your scooter will still be reliable.
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Post by mykul on Oct 14, 2011 11:24:28 GMT -5
Thanking everybody for the welcome and advice...Pony66 one thing that concerns me about the various tuning mods and advice is that there's no consistency!
I looked at the scooterdogs site and their big bore kit is a nice price.
Ecobike USA offers a big bore kit for $200 with the rings already gapped and installed which is helpful but they say no need to change jetting which strikes me as very odd because surely an increase in capacity alone would require more fuel?
One hears all sorts of things such as the existence of a spacer between the pulleys of the variator which can be removed to allow the belt to climb higher, I guess. Then there's the fabled 'pink wire' which I don't see on my CDI unit and supposedly a carb slide lift limiter which may or may not be there, darned if I'm going to start monkeying around with a bike thats working fine just to see if these restrictor mods are actually there.
See the trouble with quite a few of these posted 'mods' is that one knows nothing about the posters knowledge or experience and one often suspects they are not passing on useful advice at all and may well be simply parroting what some equally inexperienced user said.
One thing I learnt the hard way as a young man is always to ignore any advice about messing with carburettor settings, its almost always guaranteed to make matters worse and loud exhausts do not mean an increase in power. All engines except racing and aircraft engines designed to run flat out, actually use some back pressure to allow valve overlap to work properly and those 'clumsy useless airboxes' (a quote from elsewhere) are an important part of the intake dynamics, removing or drilling them is often a mistake.
I followed a bunch of this advice with my Vulcan and it made it noisier, reduced the top end and ran lean. That was supposedly 'expert' advice!
If these Honda clone engines are indeed pretty much identical then there ought to be one set of tuning mods thats optimum but how on earth does one decide who's claims are actually genuine?
Happy customers feedback is virtually useless. When I ran a bike shop back in the 70's we got pestered by kids with mopeds and we quickly discovered that 'tuning' the speedo to make it still zero out but read 5 - 10 mph optimistic was far and away the best choice and they invariably raved about the improvement! No, I didn't charge for it either. In most cases their brakes were so feeble I wouldn't have made them faster if I could but I'd set the timing, change the plug and do a decoke which actually does a useful job and charge for that work, the speedo tuning was a freebie to guarantee customer satisfaction!
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Post by Pony66 on Oct 14, 2011 12:05:45 GMT -5
Mykul you are right on track. Your experience serves you well.
I completly agree with your whole post. There is a lot of different advice because there are different scooters and goals. Some want a little power, some want to live on the edge.
The reason the derestriction advise changes, is the scooters are different. Law requires manufactures to limit them to 30mph, but the law has changed over the years. Factories have use different tactics to achieve the 30mph limit. Some use a restricted CDI, some a washer in the CVT, some a washer in the exhaust. Some have a screw that limits throttle travel and covered A/F mix screws. One of mine didnt have any of that stuff, to make it more confusing. You and I agree about keeping the air box and exhaust. Thats where you will hear a lot of opinions. A lot of people like the open UNI filer, some dont.
I dont understand Ecobike says to keep the stock jet after installing a BBK. I have 4 GY6 right now and they came with #75- #81 main jets. How do they even know what the stock jet was?
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Post by inuyasha on Oct 14, 2011 13:48:36 GMT -5
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Post by inuyasha on Oct 14, 2011 13:55:30 GMT -5
Mike,are you ready to become one of these?---> youtu.be/jRUSpjmeJZA ,,,,,,if yes,,then your'e in!!! Welcome to the Club!!!! ;D ;D ;D Hi Luke ;D I had a feeling i shouldnt have been drinking tea while watching that Now i have to clean up my key board Where do you find all these crazy videos Take care and drive safely dear friend Yours Hank
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Post by TERRA NUVO on Oct 14, 2011 14:12:50 GMT -5
mykul WELCOME WELCOME WELCOME
LUKE, its not working go back on the medicine.
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Post by mykul on Oct 14, 2011 15:51:07 GMT -5
Hows about a photo or 2 of your scoot Thanks Inuyasha and very useful links too. [
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Post by inuyasha on Oct 14, 2011 16:39:59 GMT -5
Hows about a photo or 2 of your scoot Thanks Inuyasha and very useful links too. [ Hi Mike Outstanding Your most welcome You and her make a very dashing couple ;D I sincerely hope you dont wear the crocs while riding Make sure to wear appropriate safety gear i can not stress that enough Riding jacket, glove, boots, and helmet also protective eye ware if your helmet does not have a visor Safety is of the utmost imperative imho Take care and drive safely dear friend Yours Hank
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Post by mykul on Oct 14, 2011 17:00:23 GMT -5
No worries Hank. I don't ride in crocs nor without a helmet, gloves and jacket except the last two items when its either really hot weather or else I'm just riding down the road to the shore, about 100 yards away.
I've been riding since 1961 and the safety gear has saved my life on several occasions, actually I dislike going helmetless because the combination of wind noise and hair blowing in the eyes I find really annoying.
BTW I just checked all the PDI items mentioned in that link and everything is tight and as it should be though I'm glad I did the check for my peace of mind.
A small point about break in, something I do religiously, the really important aspect of early break in is the heat cycle. That is that the engine should be allowed to cool completely before the next running period. In the early stages of break in whats most crucial is the stress relieving of the engine components which only can happen properly if the cycle of heating and cooling is complete.
Ignore this at your peril. Nine times out of ten the 'fast break in' crowd will get away with it but in the long term stress cracks can develop in crucial engine components which many of the latter will never discover as in all likelihood they will not keep their machine for very long anyway.
Stress failures are catastrophic, the final failure occurs at amazing speed and if the component is a connecting rod, for example, the chances of a lockup are quite high though the CVT final drive should prevent it from throwing the scooter down the road unless it punches through the crankcase and dumps oil all over the rear tyre. On a bike with a chain drive its not so forgiving.
I wish more powered two wheeler riders would realize that for all intents and purposes they might as well be flying a plane with the same consequences if anything goes wrong with their machine.
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Post by inuyasha on Oct 14, 2011 17:19:37 GMT -5
No worries Hank. I don't ride in crocs nor without a helmet, gloves and jacket except the last two items when its either really hot weather or else I'm just riding down the road to the shore, about 100 yards away. I've been riding since 1961 and the safety gear has saved my life on several occasions, actually I dislike going helmetless because the combination of wind noise and hair blowing in the eyes I find really annoying. BTW I just checked all the PDI items mentioned in that link and everything is tight and as it should be though I'm glad I did the check for my peace of mind. A small point about break in, something I do religiously, the really important aspect of early break in is the heat cycle. That is that the engine should be allowed to cool completely before the next running period. In the early stages of break in whats most crucial is the stress relieving of the engine components which only can happen properly if the cycle of heating and cooling is complete. Ignore this at your peril. Nine times out of ten the 'fast break in' crowd will get away with it but in the long term stress cracks can develop in crucial engine components which many of the latter will never discover as in all likelihood they will not keep their machine for very long anyway. Stress failures are catastrophic, the final failure occurs at amazing speed and if the component is a connecting rod, for example, the chances of a lockup are quite high though the CVT final drive should prevent it from throwing the scooter down the road unless it punches through the crankcase and dumps oil all over the rear tyre. On a bike with a chain drive its not so forgiving. I wish more powered two wheeler riders would realize that for all intents and purposes they might as well be flying a plane with the same consequences if anything goes wrong with their machine. Hi Mike Glad to hear You are very wise, and more should live by that code Take care and drive safely dear friend Yours Hank
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Post by chaz12 on Oct 14, 2011 19:54:00 GMT -5
Welcome Mike.. We all welcome you to the Dawg Membership.. You should know something about scooters, if you riden two wheels for 50 years.. I agree with Luke, that is must be very different from what you are use to riding..
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