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Post by wvcruffler on May 11, 2011 20:05:27 GMT -5
So - basically helix clone engine 244cc blah blah. 3d year of ownership and last spring it started fairly easily. This spring, no dice. Sprayed a little carb cleaner into the plug hole and returned plug and it fires up briefly. Seems to be a fuel delivery issue. Going to fill up with fresh gas and a little sta-bil. any thought on how to troubleshoot from here forward?
Phil
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Post by edfr on May 11, 2011 20:28:11 GMT -5
If it has a Carb and not EFI, then yes:
NO START AND OR HARD STARTING
THINGS TO FIRST CHECK:
Is your KILL SWITCH OFF. If it is on it will not allow Voltage to get to the Coil and Spark Plug.
Some have a safety Kill switch on the Sidestand is the Sidestand up and on the Center Stand.
ENRICHER(CHOKE - If you have to spray the Intake with whatever to start it):
1. Before you start it when cold, take it off and IF you see a Space Between the Plunger and Rubber holder it is EXTENDED and not working. When Cold it should be RETRACTED It feeds extra fuel to the Carb for COLD STARTS. IF EXTENTED WHEN COLD replace it with a new one $10-15 bucks.
ADJUST VALVES( If a 4 Stroke):
If you KNOW you are getting Fuel Down the Intake and you KNOW you are getting Spark at the Spark Plug and it is Hard to Start WARM OR COLD and or it Dies on you when coming to a Stop then SUSPECT YOUR VALVES.
If they are to tight it is loosing compression and if to much they will not start or very Hard to Start.
Adjust the INTAKE TOP VALVE to .004” and EXHAUST BOTTOM VALVE to .005”. See if that fixes the problem go to GIVE IT A SHOT:
SPARK PLUG:
Now you need to check if the Spark Plug is getting Spark.
Take it out or if you have a spare plug use that and just take the Cap off the one on the engine and put the spark plug in the Cap and Hold the Spark Plug Against the Engine to ground it and Crank it.
a. If you see it Spark then put the Cap back on the Plug in the Engine and go to CARB:
b. If No Spark then it is Electrical or bad Switches, COIL, CDI, PICK UP TRIGGER , Wiring etc.. Time to get the Volt Meter out and Find what component is the Culprit.
CARB:
Take the Vacuum hose off the INTAKE and squirt a little gas into the nipple and down into the intake. Put the hose back on and see it ATTEMPTS to ACTUALLY FIRE. It may fire and run and die. But now we know it is a FUEL Delivery problem which could be several things go to FUEL PUMP/PETCOCK/SHUTOFF :
FUEL PUMP/PETCOCK:
FUEL PUMP(Gas Tank is Lower Than The Carb)-PETCOCK(Gas Tank is Higher Than Carb):
Disconnect the Fuel Hose from the Carb and put it in a container to catch any fuel then crank it.
a. If fuel streams out Fuel is reaching the carb, go to CLEAN CARB:
b.If fuel does not come out or dribbles out go to go to CHECK FUEL FILTER:
SHUTOFF VALVE:
Open the Shutoff Valve if fuel does not come out try cleaning it see if you can get fuel to flow out.
If you cannot get the fuel to flow then get a new one go to GIVE IT A SHOT.
CLEAN CARB:
Get a Can of Spray Carb Cleaner they come with a nice long thin small straw. Take the Carb off and take the bowl off and unscrew the Jets and clean then out and then spray into all the Holes the Jets screw into. When you squirt into the hole you should see the Spray coming out from in front of the Carb by the Butterfly and also inside where the Needle goes into.
Then put the carb back together and put it back on Air Filter and go to GIVE IT A SHOT.
FUEL FILTER:
Take the Hose off the Filter Closest to the Carb and crank it, Fuel should stream out of the Filter.
a. If it does we now know that the filter is good no need to check further on this part of the fuel system go to CHECK COMPRESSION :
b. If it Fuel Dribbles out of the Filter Take the Filter off and Crank it again If Fuel streams out change the Filter and go to GIVE IT A SHOT:
c.Your Petcock or Fuel Pump may not be working or there is a problem with the Tank outlet.
CHECK COMPRESSION(THROTTLE MUST BE OPEN ALL THE WAY DURING THIS TEST):
If you do not have a Compression Gauge then Take the Plug out and stick your Finger in the HOLE and Hold it there and HOLD THE THROTTLE WIDE OPEN and Crank it.
a. If it blows your finger off you have good compression go to GIVE IT A SHOT:
b. If you just feel a little pressure then you have a problem, it is leaking from either the Rings or Valves.
c. To check which it is, pour a teaspoon of OIL down the Spark Plug Hole and test the Compression again.
IF the compression DOES GO UP You have Bad Rings
If the compression DOES NOT GO UP you are leaking by the Valves.
GIVE IT A SHOT:
Good Luck And May the Force be With You
Lefty
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Post by wvcruffler on May 11, 2011 20:59:45 GMT -5
Cool. Is there a diagram somewhere where I can figure out where the electric choke is? The bike has a lot of body panels and it's tight in there.
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Post by steveo419 on May 15, 2011 18:05:41 GMT -5
Hey mods this should be a sticky, it has everything for trouble shooting a hard/ no start situation. If i had a bone one goes to lefty for this nice write-up
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Post by nomech on May 15, 2011 19:10:22 GMT -5
Yup, another excellent job by Lefty! Here's the phantom of another bone!  wvcruffler: It's easiest to get to the choke by removing the panel under the seat that allows access to the carb area. Remove the airbox (it gets in the way), and take the carb loose from the intake. The enricher will be the black plastic part with wires connected to it. If you take the carb out of the intake, you should have enough room to rotate the carb to the right (if you are facing it from the front of the bike). The enricher will be right there (hidden until you rotate the carb). |
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Post by edfr on May 15, 2011 19:30:54 GMT -5
Thanks guys, Here is a picture of a carb that should be similiar to the one on the scoot. This is a 24mm carb if its a 250 it is probably a 30-32mm Carb. Lefty Left Side Of Carb:  Right Side Of Carb:  |
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Post by nomech on May 18, 2011 7:58:57 GMT -5
Good pic. It is similar. The fuel ratio screw is located on the underside of the carb, so it has to be taken loose to adjust. The enricher location is pretty much spot on. wvcruffler: Lefty just wrote you up a shop manual, then added a labeled pic for reference (he's real good )! Follow his directions and you should be fine. There is nothing on these scoots that an informed person can't do. They are quite easy to wrench on if you've got the right people lending you advice...or writing you a troubleshooter's manual! |
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Post by richardthescooter1 on May 18, 2011 17:29:56 GMT -5
I'm a new member, I have 250cc roketa scooter, the other day it shut off three times in a 5 mile trip, usely missing right before it shuts off, pull over for a few mins, then it will start again, doesn't do it all the time, can someone help?
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Post by nomech on May 19, 2011 22:25:35 GMT -5
richard: I don't think we want to hijack this thread, but check your vacuum lines for leaks, check your fuel delivery system (often a bad fuel filter will give intermittent run/kill issues), and if that doesn't cut it, start a new thread so everyone will be focusing entirely on you and your issue.  One last tidbit: If you've ever tipped your scoot or over-filled the tank, pull the hose located on the top of the tank loose, make sure it isn't blocked in a bend/loop with gas accumulation, and reinstall. Good luck! |
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Post by edfr on May 19, 2011 22:44:01 GMT -5
Good pic. It is similar. The fuel ratio screw is located on the underside of the carb, so it has to be taken loose to adjust. The enricher location is pretty much spot on. wvcruffler: Lefty just wrote you up a shop manual, then added a labeled pic for reference (he's real good )! Follow his directions and you should be fine. There is nothing on these scoots that an informed person can't do. They are quite easy to wrench on if you've got the right people lending you advice...or writing you a troubleshooter's manual! You do not have to take the Carb off or Rotate it to adjust the Fuel Ratio Screw when it is under the carb. Use one of the little changeable drivers works great and is only 1 inch long. Lefty  |
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