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Post by keetarider on Oct 15, 2010 11:08:04 GMT -5
Right on about the coil and CDI. Get the OEM parts off while they still run, and regulate them to emergency back up status, for your "road repair kit".
CDI usually doesn't help too much unless there is something wrong with the one that's in there, but aftermarket will usually be of better quality and you'll know for sure you have no restriction there.
Hotter Coil, you should see results the first time you touch the starter.
I wore my kick start out, before changing my units out, and I haven't had to touch it, except when I change the oil, ever since.
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Post by oscar on Oct 15, 2010 11:42:06 GMT -5
Right on about the coil and CDI. Get the OEM parts off while they still run, and regulate them to emergency back up status, for your "road repair kit". CDI usually doesn't help too much unless there is something wrong with the one that's in there, but aftermarket will usually be of better quality and you'll know for sure you have no restriction there. Hotter Coil, you should see results the first time you touch the starter. I wore my kick start out, before changing my units out, and I haven't had to touch it, except when I change the oil, ever since. Have you noticed better running i.e. no more bogging w/ the new coil? Perhaps that w/ an iridium plug might really help. Could you recommend a supplier. |
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Post by oscar on Oct 15, 2010 20:39:30 GMT -5
Just spoke w/ old friend who has decade of small engine work under his belt (hes 70+). Hes very suspicious of weak ignition as an over arching reason for all the bogging complaints. Many times a plug will fire in open air but under compression fail. These scoots are running higher than normal compression increasing the chance of weak fire/misfire events. Also he said a poor firing plug is going to read improperly because the weak ignition will leave more unburnt fuel deposits.
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Post by oscar on Oct 15, 2010 22:54:05 GMT -5
Engine to frame electrical ground was .2 ohms even checked voltage drop while cranking starter but all is well that way.
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Post by oscar on Oct 17, 2010 10:08:36 GMT -5
Bike was running better than normal yesterday. Remembered I left sunglasses back at the friend's place. Slammed the seat after checking the underseat compartment & did a tight u-turn & suddenly the scoot fell on its face. Just wanted to die when throttling up & would die at idle if I didn't keep revving the throttle. In order to go 5MPH I had keep working the throttle up & down basically pumping the accelerator. This went on for a couple minutes & then the problem suddenly cleared & I went on my way at 40MPH. Experience this sort of thing after all a cold start but much more mildly until the cold start mechanism closes.
Any ideas?
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Post by D-cat on Oct 17, 2010 12:56:45 GMT -5
Slide might well be sticking... or the petcock could be intermittently malfunctioning or other fuel delivery issue. Check if fuel or vacuum line is getting pinched.
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Post by oscar on Oct 17, 2010 20:15:33 GMT -5
Lubricated the carb slide w/ penetrating oil. The slide showed a bit of wear from sliding in the rails. Not sure if it was that it or perhaps denser air but the scooter felt considerably more muscular (relatively speaking) than I've noticed before. Was stronger even in the boggy midrange. Perhaps the somewhat cooler air was quite a bit denser allowing a better a/f match. Really thinking now the scoot is running rich. Scoot was originally run in Florida & then brought to Wisconsin. If the jetting was tuned for Florida it would probably be to rich for higher elevation WI. Still got some stuttering in the mid-range; definately an on again off again deal.
Separately but maybe not finally found my naggy vacuum leak. The little metal cap covering the throttle shaft hole on the other side of the spring thats it. Ha close enough to the rubber manifold to make me think it was the manifold. Wonder how I should seal the cap! Thinking RTV if I don't squeeze it in real hard & cause a bind w/ the throttle shaft.
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Post by larry001964 on Oct 17, 2010 20:48:27 GMT -5
Hi Guy's I'm new to the forum, I have had a similar issue with my brand new scooter, and found the fix.. perhaps it will help.. There are two size caps with 4 holes in them. One is on the carb intake air breather.. and the other is on the Variator air intake.. on my scooter from the factory that is in Texas, much hotter air, here in Indiana much colder denser air..
I switch the smaller # 10 cap to the carb intake and put the # 12 cap on the Variator... I don't know if it will help your situation but its worth a quick try.. switching them worked for me... I do think by what your describing it's a A/F problem.. Good luck and I hope this helps.
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Post by oscar on Oct 17, 2010 21:03:10 GMT -5
"#10 cap to the carb intake." Hmm don't know what that is.
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Post by larry001964 on Oct 17, 2010 21:08:50 GMT -5
Yes down around the kick starter, there are two large hoses.. each with a cap in them, on my caps there was numbers # 10 and # 12 on the caps the 12 being the larger.. just try switching them, it mine was bogging down to the point it actually stopped but would restart easily after a few minuets.. Im thinking your problem is similar to mine... And that fixed it.. I hope it works for you
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Post by oscar on Oct 17, 2010 21:10:44 GMT -5
I'll take a look.
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Post by D-cat on Oct 17, 2010 21:12:01 GMT -5
I think he's referring to the hoses... you can get aftermarket hoses that have prefilters (re screens) capped on the ends. I'm not sure, but that makes the most sense to me from what I have seen so far.
And BTW, that would change the air flow, and thus affecting A/F ratio, just a different means to the same end. I also don't have any knowledge of #10 vs #12... maybe a link would help us understand.
Larry, can you show us what you mean?
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Post by oscar on Oct 17, 2010 21:14:21 GMT -5
Where do the hoses lead back too?
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Post by larry001964 on Oct 17, 2010 21:16:46 GMT -5
Well i guess i can take some pictures of what im talking about, cant do it tonight, it did make sence to me after i made the change.. I dont know if the numbers on the caps mean anything for sure, I'm a industrial mechanic by trade but scooters are new to me.. all i can really say is the cap with the smaller holes i put on the carb breather air intake infront of and down by the kick starter. and the bigger holed cap i put on the variator and all my problems went away.. Ill see what i can do about getting pictures
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Post by oscar on Oct 17, 2010 21:22:17 GMT -5
My carb has a bowl vent w/ a short piece of right angle tube hanging on it...breather on the air intake i believe.
Gotta get off here & go look I guess.
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Post by oscar on Oct 17, 2010 22:46:50 GMT -5
Finally did my due diligence & drilled a 1" hole in the plastic panel to access the spark plug. The results of the plug reading were as surprising as dissapointing. Snow white deposits. Urr. I had not wanted to read the plug until i got caught up w/ the vacuum leaks though I still have a leak on the throttle shaft end cap. Doesn't look like that cap is meant to be the only seal as there is a nylon washer on the shaft that looks like it suppose to seal. I can see a gap on mine. Got the main jet out but can't see any numbers on her.
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Post by oscar on Oct 17, 2010 22:50:56 GMT -5
There might be another problem. I see in the carb diagram that the jet needle is supposed to set on top of the plastic 3 legged thingy. Mine was underneath the plastic thingy! That could be something real important, un-huh.
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Post by D-cat on Oct 17, 2010 23:14:49 GMT -5
Actually, it does go under that 3 legged "thingy." I'm not actually sure what it's called, but for lack of a better word, I'll call it a retaining cap. I think it's there to prevent the needle from flying out when you hit a bump or dump the bike. I tried experimenting with placing the needle over this cap, since it looked like it would be a nice way to use the spring as a height adjustment mechanism. It failed horribly, the mm or so thickness was enough to cause instant mid throttle problems; worked much better below, and that was after I broke my exhaust. I did slide a thin washer between the bottom of the slide and the needle (mine does not have an adjustable clip), and it seemed to help a little. I have some other problems going on right now though that I'm awaiting parts for, so my story is as of yet incomplete.
Plug had white deposits. Okay, so you're running lean, the bogging is a result of fuel starvation. This is good to know. You should now do the fuel delivery test (if you haven't already), raise your needle if you have the option, and consider a larger main jet.
Oh, and that right angle tube on the carb is a breather vent. It's job is to provide atmospheric pressure under the diaphragm so that it can lift the slide; a hole at the bottom of the slide transfers vacuum to the top of the diaphragm.
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Post by oscar on Oct 17, 2010 23:35:47 GMT -5
Huh the needle did fit under better than on top of the thingy but manual definitely shows on top. Also the book states that the slide is to be pushed up to the top of its travel when installing the cover. Apparently they want the diaphagm contracted at installation.
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Post by oscar on Oct 17, 2010 23:44:19 GMT -5
Wonder how much the leak at the throttle shaft might have been setting up the lean condition?
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Post by D-cat on Oct 18, 2010 8:18:37 GMT -5
Well, you're right about the manual (pg 55); don't know. I guess place it where it works best for you. For me it's definitely under. Maybe you should experiment; it might actually work better for you over. Like I said, it does look like a handy way to use the spring as a height adjustment for the needle, as long as it works at all at the bottom first (as pictured in the manual).
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Post by oscar on Oct 19, 2010 22:01:57 GMT -5
Well the spring is much larger diameter than the needle. Placed the needle on top of the thingy as the manual diagrams show but I don't likey. I can hear the needle click in there as the venturi modulates up & down. On the positive side I've got black on my sparky but not all over it. The electrode past the bend has no deposits. I'm guessing based on my snowmobile experience that that is fuel washing. W/ sleds you get an idea of how your jetted based the carbon pattern on top of the piston. The richer the blend the more carbon is washed further from the center of the piston. Guessing I'm so rich now that carbon is getting washed off the end of the electrode. Still somewhat weak in the midrange & than it seems like a 2nd cam kicks in around 45 KPH. New problem, constantly missing just off idle as I'm accelerating. Even sometimes when decelerating the engine suddenly takes a sharp cut in power. Noticed a couple times as I was accelerating took a couple big stumbles maybe in that same area just off idle but can't remember for sure. When I was lean I had observed this on a long highway trip: she was stuttering at 55 KPH quite a bit & than she took such a long cut in power that I thot I had run out of gas. That happened twice on that trip. Maybe something electrical?
Seemed to have gotten my vacuum leaks cleaned up but idle is still a tease. Its like its a 2 stage idle very high & than very low to the point of killing. Where there could be another vacuum leak hiding I have no idea.
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Post by D-cat on Oct 19, 2010 23:05:50 GMT -5
Assuming you have an accelerator pump, sounds like you're way rich now. I'm having the same problem; I tried upjetting today and went too far, didn't have time to dink with it more though, resume tomorrow I guess. Anyway, what's happening is when you go from closed to open throttle, the accelerator pump squirts a shot of extra fuel into the carb. If you're already running rich, it throws the mix over the top and the engine dies for a second (or all together if you were idling).
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Post by oscar on Nov 12, 2010 12:15:14 GMT -5
Getting things richened up helps alot. Had the speedo needle buried & touching the bottom of the speedo case several times. Recently had a spate of hot restarts difficulties again. Good thing I had the starter working so it could crank & crank until the engine caught fire. Problem had been gone ever since I had raised the carb needle. Can't really see that this problem is outdoor temp related.
Wonder if this might indicate a problem w/ the coil or ignition module?
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Post by keetarider on Nov 12, 2010 16:33:24 GMT -5
Dcat. Mine was doing the same only the accelerator pump was ditching me with a bog on the way up, out of a dead stop. When I changed to the disc air filter, and drilled the exhaust, it went away, and went away with authority. Now where that bog was, is power and it feels darn good.
I still need to up jet to be able to open my filter all the way, but it's running better than ever atm.
Looking forward to an 85 or 88 main going in there.
I'm guessing though you're already running free flow Uni? I know you've got an open B/S exhaust.
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