|
Post by crazyd on Sept 17, 2010 22:29:15 GMT -5
Hello Dawgs, I have an Ice Bear (PST50S-8) 50cc trike with like 180 miles on it. The bike is pretty new. The on line dealer I got it from is no help at all. I have been having problems. Could use some help ASAP. Please! 1. Low idle has been driving me crazy. I just could not get it to work right. In order to keep the bike running I had to set it higher than I know it should be. It wants to take off without giving it any gas. 2. There is a knocking sound coming from what I think is the rear end. When I stop the bike, it starts to knock like mad. As I pull off the stop it also knocks. Funny thing is once it starts to pick up speed the knocking stops. Sometimes all I have to do is pull on the rear break lever and it starts again and it also goes into high idle. What I have done so far is to remove and clean the carb. Checked all nuts, bolts and screws. Added double sided tape to the wheel covers. removed the blind cap from the air mixture screw. Nothing worked So I then took it to my not so local scooter guy. He went over all the things I had done myself with the same results. He then changed the carb out and the low idle was a bit better for a short time and went right back to doing the same thing. He really worked his butt off on it but could not figure out the problem. I was able to get it back home but it really sounds bad. So, now I turn to the dawgs and hope there is some hope for me. I have some other issues with it, but would like to take care of this first. I know a 50cc trike is not much to some but I really do like it. I will be most grateful for any feed back. Thank you, David Attachments:
|
|
|
Post by als01seville on Sept 17, 2010 23:40:27 GMT -5
crazyd, I see you have it on blocks, try to find the Knock, it could be your Clutch. Get a funnel or something like that and put it around with your ear close to the funnel so you can pin point the knock.
Check your chain, it might be hitting your chain guard. Those chain guards break really easy or the rear bolt loosens and starts banging on the Axle itself. I took mine off it was not worth putting it back on after I had to have it welded. Then it broke in another place. Also check the bolts on your Differential make sure they are not loose cause then your Disc Brake and or Your Rear Sprocket will not be aligned.
Also check the Castle Nuts on your HUB that has the 4 bolts that hold the rim. The axles may have come out a little and the HUB will knock on the splines on the axle shaft. Just grab the tire and see if you can rock it or grab the big nut and see if you can also move it. If you could put up a Video of the noise that might help.
The low Idle could be your enricher is not working. Did the mechanic check the Enricher to see if it was working. Its very easy to test Take the enricher off when its cold and mark the plunger right by the black rubber part and lay it on its side anywhere, then cover the hole with your hand or thumb and start the engine keeping your thumb or hand over the hole. What you are doing is acting like the enricher to feed it more gas when cold. If it idles higher than before holding covering the hole you just found your idle problem, the enricher is either stuck in the EXTENDED position or its not working.
Once it runs for a few mintues you can shut it off and look at the mark you put on the Enricher Plunger. If its working the plunger should have EXTEND out about 3/16 or so. But with the Mark you put on it you should know if the mark is now further away from the rubber part. Then what supposed to happen is as it cools the plunger should RETRACT BACK toward the rubber part. Alleyoop
|
|
|
Post by crazyd on Sept 18, 2010 10:42:50 GMT -5
als01seville, Thank you so much Kind Sir. I am going to do just as you suggest. I'm sorry I did not post here before going to my local guy. Not that he's bad. After reading your reply, I just feel he missed a few things I will try a video but I need to go and get a bike lift because the blocks are not working all that good. Please keep an eye out for me as I will post as soon as I have some news. I feel like there is some hope after all. The best to all and thank you again! David
|
|
|
Post by als01seville on Sept 18, 2010 11:36:12 GMT -5
Crazyd, Not a problem, as you can see I have the Ice Bear PST150H Trike. I have taken the entire Rear Axle apart, put in some new Wheel, and Differential Bearings etc.. The Axles on these things tend to come out at least 1/16 but that 1/16 can ruin your Hubs. I know I had to order two new hubs, then I found how to fix that problem. If your wheel is loose you will need to put a Washer behind the Castle Nut so that the nut will line up with a Hole in the Axle so you can put in a new Cotter Pin.
I will keep an eye on this thread and or you can send me a Personnel Message just click on messages up on top. Alleyoop
|
|
|
Post by crazyd on Sept 18, 2010 19:03:27 GMT -5
Hello als01seville, Well I picked up the lift at Sears but got caught up in the daily grind and had only about an hour of daylight left (my garage is a mess) to work on the trike. I did check under the hubs and just like you said the nuts were so loose I could turn them with my fingers. The strange thing is that they were no where near the cotter pins and they had two washers each. I secured them as best I could just to try it out but it still has the knock. I will try to go through your list again tomorrow. I hope I didn't rip the Differential up. I did do a small vid and posted it on YouTube. Hope you can get a better idea from it. www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLafil8ME48&feature=youtube_gdata_playerDavid
|
|
|
Post by als01seville on Sept 18, 2010 20:01:04 GMT -5
Crazyd, Are you saying that the Cotter Pins were NOT making contact with the Castle Nuts Like this: Alleyoop If the Cotter pin was out away from the Castel nut. That means your Axles moved out a lot. Jack up one side at a time or both doesn't matter, take the Wheel Off the Hub and push the Axle in. Now inside the Differential are Spider Gears that inside the Sleeve of the Two Gears that drive the wheel Have A KEY BUILT in them. The Axle Itself has Cutouts that when you put the AXLE all the way the KEY on the Spider Gear Sleeve Fits into the Grove on the end of the Axle. So after you take the Rim off then grab the HUB with both hands and try and FIND the KEY and a Slot on the AXle, you will know when they mesh THEN get a Hammer or Something and give the End of the Axle a Couple hit NOT TOO HARD, what your trying to do is hopefully the Axle will go a little Further onto the Key to lock it better. Then you should be able to put on the Castle nut back on and Tighten it and the Cotter Pin should be in one of the Slots in the Castle Nut. Like the above picture: Alleyoop Now do the same thing to the other side Here is what the Axle looks like taken apart:
|
|
|
Post by crazyd on Sept 18, 2010 20:43:41 GMT -5
You are the man! Yes that is what I am saying. They looked nothing like your picture. That Axle looks like it's fun to do too. Any chance that my tranny is not the problem? Attachments:
|
|
|
Post by als01seville on Sept 18, 2010 21:00:35 GMT -5
To tell you the truth I think the real problem is in the Tranny. Reason being from the Video you had the Noise and the Differential was NOT turning. But either way your Axle has moved out quite a bit looks like at least a 1/4 each. So they need to be pushed back in. Does your Axle have TWO screws one one top and one on the bottom right on the Axle Tube itself about oh 4" or so from each end of the Axle? If you don't that is an Early Axle and I would complain about it that the Axles are coming out and they are dangerious. Explain to them that your axle does not have the Two Safey Screws on each side of the Axle tube to STOP the Axle from completely coming out. Alleyoop
|
|
|
Post by als01seville on Sept 18, 2010 21:09:42 GMT -5
Crazyd, Ok i just exploded the picture of your Rear Axle and you DO NOT the screws that stop the Axle from coming out as far as it did. With the added safety screws it would only come out about 1/6 of an inch but that you can easly tighen up without any problem. Alleyoop
|
|
|
Post by crazyd on Sept 18, 2010 21:16:57 GMT -5
Wow, I thought the Tranny was safe. Oh well, it's all good. No screws on the axle but it's a 2010 trike. Go figure. I did catch the seller on the phone a bit ago and sent him the link of the vid. He was going to look into the Tranny issue. He did say if there was a problem he may be able to get me a Tranny but I would have to pay to get it installed. Better than nothing if he comes through. By the way, I Love Tools! ;^)
|
|
|
Post by als01seville on Sept 18, 2010 21:34:00 GMT -5
Well, you can ask about the Axle as well and send him the picture of what you sent me. And if you can explain about the AXles with the two screws on each end of the Tube. What they did is this. They welded a piece of pipe about 1/8 in thicker than the Axle itself about 6" or so from the ends of the Axle. Then they added a FLOATING Piece that is a litter bigger than the Diameter of the Axle with Two Holes that are Threaded. The Floating piece then goes up to the Welded Piece of Pipe that they welded onto the Axle itselt and then Two screws Hold the Floating piece in place. So if the Axle starts to move out it will only go as far as where the Floating Piece is held on by the Two Screws. Here is a picture of the screws I am talking about. The Screw nearest the End of the Tube next to the Fender Holder Brackets. There is another screw right across that one, same thing on the wheel. These Screws Hold the Floating Retainer in place to stop the Axle. And don't let them bull sh!t you, they have the updated Axles with the Floating Ring and Screws. I know cause I have one for the 50cc Trikes that they sent me by mistake instead of the one for my PST150H Trike. The 50cc Trikes Axles only have 2 mounting brackets to mount to the Frame of the Trike. The 150cc Trike Axles have 4 mounting brackets. Alleyoop
|
|
|
Post by crazyd on Sept 20, 2010 14:06:05 GMT -5
Well after working on it all day yesterday I was able to get somethings done. I had to install a 3rd washer under the castle nut to makeup for the space. Every time I got one side right it would mess the other one up. After the extra washer on each side it was good. Sounded great, no more knocking. So I take it out for a test run up and down the block. All is good. One more test run. That was the end of that, it started knocking again. I put it on the lift and sure enough, the wheels are rocking again. By the way, I called Ice bear and the person I talked with never heard of the updated axle with the safety screws. She said she would look into it. Attachments:
|
|
|
Post by crazyd on Sept 20, 2010 14:14:45 GMT -5
This looks good.
|
|
|
Post by als01seville on Sept 20, 2010 14:17:18 GMT -5
Crazyd, You have to get the TWO axles into the KEY on the Spider Gears inside the Differential EVENLY. You should only have to put maybe 1 washer on each side to get them to tighen up.
Ok, Now take the Nut Off and wheel with the HUB and all off. You will see a RUBBER DIRT Washer right on the end. Take a screwdriver and pop it out. Now in there about 1/4 inch from the End you should see a "C" Clip and a THICK WASHER. One of those is missing if your Axle is coming out that Far.
Let me know what you have or do not have. Alleyoop
|
|
|
Post by crazyd on Sept 20, 2010 14:17:56 GMT -5
Sorry forgot the picture. Attachments:
|
|
|
Post by crazyd on Sept 20, 2010 14:20:57 GMT -5
What's the trick to posting more than one picture on one post? It opened fine, I think. Attachments:
|
|
|
Post by als01seville on Sept 20, 2010 15:05:31 GMT -5
Yep, your enricher is working like clock work:)
Just scroll down a line or two and paste your other picture. Then you can Click on Preview and see if it came out ok.
Alleyoop
|
|
|
Post by crazyd on Sept 20, 2010 16:53:03 GMT -5
Okay, I removed the tire, hub and dust cap. Here is what I saw. Attachments:
|
|
|
Post by crazyd on Sept 20, 2010 16:57:43 GMT -5
This is what I get with one washer with one side slapped in as far as I dare to go. Attachments:
|
|
|
Post by crazyd on Sept 20, 2010 17:01:19 GMT -5
Now the other side goes way out. It's almost like the shafts are too long. Even when I get them close to center I still need more that two washers. So the cotter pins sit where they should. Attachments:
|
|
|
Post by als01seville on Sept 20, 2010 18:08:47 GMT -5
WOW!!! no wonder your hearing what your hearing. The Axle is almost out of the Spider Gear Sleave where the KEY is. Thats what slipping on you. Now the last picture i looks like the Bearing is right up to the "C" CLIP which is the only thing that is stopping the Axle from completely coming out. Are you sure you have the Axle Slot going onto the KEY on the Spider Gear Sleeve. I think if you move the Axles left and right you will get one of the SLOTS on the Axle to go into the KEY on the SPider Gear Sleeve. I don't think right now they are meshing. Alleyoop
|
|
|
Post by crazyd on Sept 20, 2010 19:46:06 GMT -5
I just may have to pull it all apart and start from scratch. My seller is really not responding as he should. If I tear it apart will I need to replace anything or could I just use it all again?
When I remove the C clip will it just come right out or do I need to bang it out?
By the way, Ice Bear claims that my model is a 2010 and there have not been any updates or upgrades to said axle. Just so we are all on the same page.
Anybody out there with a PST50S-8 care to chime in?
|
|
|
Post by als01seville on Sept 20, 2010 20:32:35 GMT -5
Crazyd, They are lieing sack of sh!ts, Here is the 50cc Axle that they sent me BACK IN 2009. Notice the two screws on each end. I just put it together as prove. Tell them You want one like that. Alleyoop
|
|
|
Post by als01seville on Sept 20, 2010 20:59:59 GMT -5
Crazyd, In your picture was there a WASHER about 1/8 THICK against the bearing? They put those in so that the HUB would come out more and match up with the holes on the Axle and the Castle Nut Slots. Thats why you have to put so many washers on the outside behind the Castle nut.
But still that axle is now only being stopped by Bearing hitting the "C" Clip. But that axle is coming out to much and not making a good mesh with the KEY inside the Spider Gear Sleeve.
To normally get it out you need a Puller to get the Bearing come out of the Axle Tube. I had to buy one.
The way you have it now if its tight and still is skipping that means the Axle is not all the way in meshing with the KEY in Sleeve of the Spider Gear. Alleyoop
|
|
|
Post by crazyd on Sept 20, 2010 21:36:58 GMT -5
als01seville,
No Sir, I did not see a washer against the bearing. What I do not understand (and not that I'm doubting you) is if they are not making a good mesh. Wouldn't I be able to tap one side in without moving the other side. They are two individual axles, which leads me to believe that they are meeting in the center. But then again what do I know. I do know that it's driving me crazier than I already am.
Would you mind If I use your pictures to forward to my seller? I will not use your text or use you name.
|
|
|
Post by als01seville on Sept 20, 2010 21:59:31 GMT -5
Crazyd, You Bet you can use the pictures. But don't mention my name Cause I order straight from Ice Bear and they are good to me. ;D The outfit I got the Trikes went under late in 2009 and left everyone without refunds and or what they ordered. So I called Ice Bear and spoke to them and told them the story and they allow me to order stragiht from them. Normally they only take orders from the dealers they sell to. I personnaly had to get a Lawyer to get the two PST150H trikes I orderd. They had my $4,500.00 for two trikes and they would not refund my money or send me the Trikes. So my lawyer finally got them to send me the Two Trikes both in Dark Gray. My brother-in law wanted a Red one and I wanted a Blue one. But after three months of fighting we took the Gray Ones. They are back again they are Countyimports in Clovis CA. Do not order anything from them. The Axles go into a Sleeve that is welded onto the Spider Gears, so the axles will on go so far you can tell when they hit bottom inside when your tapping them in. Then tap the other side in until you can hear the different sound not to hard mind you they go in pretty easy. Then Turn both Axles by hand and see they they turn easly and the Differential rotates. It is what they call an OPEN DIFFERENTIAL so, you can turn one way and hold the other axle will turn the other way. On the Differential you can see a piece of round metal ROD about 1/2 in diameter going through the center, on that ROD are TWO more Spider Gears one on each they are shaped like a CONE the small part of the cone face each other and each SPider Gear on each end of the AXle also CONED shaped meet with the two on the ROD. So when the Chain rotates the Spider gears on the ROD turn the Spider Gears on each side of the Axle. Here is how an Open DIfferential WOrks so you can see what we have on the Trikes. Now the Big Gear on the RIGHT TURNING THAT is the SPROCKET on our Differential and the Red and yellow is whats inside ours. Alleyoop auto.howstuffworks.com/differential2.htm
|
|
|
Post by crazyd on Sept 21, 2010 19:09:30 GMT -5
You are right about Ice Bear being nice. I also talk to them because the Dealer has been making it real hard for me.
I could get parts from them but I would have to pay for them cause I'm not a dealer. I just can't see paying, being under warranty.
As far as the trike, I got the axle shafts as even as I could and put the 3 washers back on there. All I could do now is hope for the best. Maybe my dealer will come through for me after all.
I think I'll be holding off on the Ice Bear 250cc. Instead I was out looking at Honda Scooters today. That may be the way to go.
Well, I would like to thank you for all you help and guidance and will keep you updated via PM if anything changes.
And thanks to ScootDawg for this forum!
|
|
|
Post by crazyd on Sept 25, 2010 20:22:06 GMT -5
Well my dealer came through for me alright. He told me to find a local scooter repairman or ship it back to DC so he can look at it.
looks like I'm SOL!
|
|
|
Post by crazyd on Sept 25, 2010 20:37:14 GMT -5
My Toy! Attachments:
|
|
|
Post by crazyd on Sept 25, 2010 20:38:27 GMT -5
Back View Attachments:
|
|