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Post by Alsenor on Aug 7, 2009 16:10:38 GMT -5
In your experience, what is the best method of breaking in a new motor?
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Post by agent22 on Aug 7, 2009 17:09:25 GMT -5
day one . put in new oil and drive it like you stole it.
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Post by teknoyd on Aug 7, 2009 18:03:52 GMT -5
www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htmHere is how I did mine, although it freaks some people out. I suggest reading the whole article so you can make up your own mind, but you need to do it and make a choice before you get many miles on it. This seems to be a pretty popular choice around here. Good luck! - Tek
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Post by Alsenor on Aug 7, 2009 19:20:34 GMT -5
Damn - too late for mine! I already have 50 miles on it, and he said the first 20 matter most.  |
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Post by gary2gs on Aug 7, 2009 20:12:50 GMT -5
I have a 2007 Peg. I changed the oil within the first 10 miles. I did not know about the hard break in till I that about 100 miles on it. So that's when I stopped babying it and ran it just as if it had a 1000 miles. Anywhere from slow to WOT. I've never had a problem. Not even the infamous over heating nightmare.
Gary S.
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Post by Alsenor on Aug 7, 2009 20:25:38 GMT -5
I have a 2007 Peg. I changed the oil within the first 10 miles. I did not know about the hard break in till I that about 100 miles on it. So that's when I stopped babying it and ran it just as if it had a 1000 miles. Anywhere from slow to WOT. I've never had a problem. Not even the infamous over heating nightmare. Gary S. Well, since mine was pdi'ed by the dealer I didn't think it needed an immediate oil change, but I will change it now. At issue is not "a problem" with the engine, but less performance than it could have if broken in better. What "infamous over heating nightmare" are you talking about? That's the last thing I would worry about with the liquid cooling system! |
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Post by gary2gs on Aug 7, 2009 20:35:31 GMT -5
I will look up my old bookmarks and send you a PM. The threads lasted for months. Or Just search QLink Pegasus Overheating. It went on from about summer of 2007 for about 1 year.
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Post by Alsenor on Aug 7, 2009 23:20:30 GMT -5
Ok, went to Walmart, picked up 5 quart bottle of 10-40 Valvoline, and changed the oil tonight. It wasn't real dirty yet at 57 miles, but neither was it clear!
Then I took the scoot out for a short, hard run. Just to get it out of my system, since I read that advice about hard break-in too late.
Damn, this little thing has pep! Quite impressive for a 150cc.
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Post by gary2gs on Aug 7, 2009 23:40:42 GMT -5
Good deal. I don't really think you're too late for a hard break in.
Check your PM.
Gary S.
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Post by teknoyd on Aug 7, 2009 23:54:26 GMT -5
Hey Alsenor, Well, I don't know if I would look at it like, "well dang, too late, nevermind," or, "better late than never." I read about it a little late too, but then did it anyway. I think I had about 40 miles on the bike. The writer mentions the twenty mile number, but then at some point says this, "For the first 200 miles or so, get out into the country where you can vary the speed more and run it through the gears." The Heritage runs great, but since it is kind of a radical procedure I'm always a little reluctant to tell someone they need to do it. There was a long thread on here about it and I never read about anybody having bad results from it. Here are a few links discussing it: scootdawg.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=200cc&action=display&thread=18346scootdawg.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=14346scootdawg.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=19844Wish I would have thought to mention it earlier. Too much stuff in my head! - Tek |
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Post by performancescoot on Aug 8, 2009 10:02:58 GMT -5
For a scooter engine, the only thing that needs to be broke in is the rings and maybe the cam lobes, but the cam happens very quickly. All the bearings are cased roller bearings, so they are good "out of the box".
Full throttle and compression deceleration is the best way to seat the rings. The engine will be more powerful and the oil will stay cleaner from less blow-by.
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Post by Alsenor on Aug 8, 2009 10:08:20 GMT -5
Hey Alsenor, Well, I don't know if I would look at it like, "well dang, too late, nevermind," or, "better late than never." Oh, definitely not! I am just a fanatic for idealist procedures and was concerned that I had missed the boat for best results. But that won't stop me from going for it from now on. And besides, it's much more fun to ride hard than to baby it. Almost makes me want to buy the manual and tear the thing apart, fitting new rings and starting over! ;D |
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Post by trigger on Aug 8, 2009 18:57:49 GMT -5
Oil changes are important. I wont run a new engine WOT, so I will never know, but I have always had great success by breaking in engines by using variable throttle settings.
1. Change oil after about 50 miles if it has real oil in it. If it came with shipping oil, dump it immediately, then rechange at 50 miles.
2. Run it normally, never lugging it. No WOT
3. After a couple of hundred miles, ride it like normal, but no 50 miles one way trips.
4. After 500 miles let er rip.
5. I have 9000 miles on my 150, gets 75mpg highway, runs 60 mph top speed on Michelin tires. Curises 50- 55 mph all day long. Did a 120 mile trip today, 85 degrees F, ran like a champ.
Others have posted good results using the WOT method, I am just not willing to do it.
Good luck what ever you decide.
Ride on!s
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Post by anhoa on Aug 9, 2009 12:16:32 GMT -5
I rode it like I stole it on the first day after PDI.
Anhoa
61xx miles and counting...diapers.
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Post by scooterfig on Aug 9, 2009 15:19:27 GMT -5
I followed the advice from Denis at CBXMAN when I 'broke in' my new Qlink Pegasus. But that second oil change to a synthetic product seem to make a huge difference in the sound of the engine and the performance. Make sure you do not overfill the engine oil. I did,
( before I used a synthetic oil ) and had stalling and overheating. The oil seemed really watery. The liquid-cooled 150cc engine works really hard, stay by the book and keep it maintained. Ride on !
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Post by Alsenor on Aug 10, 2009 0:56:37 GMT -5
Bad news!
Today, with 60 miles on the clock, I went on a hard break-in ride, intended to last for about 40 minutes.
After a section of a few minutes of WOT half way into the trip, hitting about 60 on I.5. I suddenly lost all power and dropped down to about 25. Could not get above 25 or so any longer. Stopped, idle sounded fine, switched off engine to check on things. Temperature was high, but not quite in the red.
After cooling down to normal, several tries didn't start her any more.
Had to get her home on a pick-up truck.
I just read what scooterfig said about too much oil - could that have caused
my problem (I changed the oil last night, and it may have been a shade higher than the middle of the dipstick)!)
Any ideas?
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Post by tp555 on Aug 10, 2009 5:23:22 GMT -5
You cooked it.Thats one of the issues with hard breakin and tight tolerances.Also it hot weather time.You will probably have to pull the cylinder and see the piston.Look for scoring on the piston and aluminum on the cylinder walls.Post some pics if you open it up.Motoman bases his theory on a gixer with Nicosil plated cylinders which no scoot has.Try a compression test and pull the plug for a look see.
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Post by trigger on Aug 10, 2009 6:32:17 GMT -5
So sorry to hear that man. Sounds like based on what I read in your post, you ran it too long at WOT. I thougjy WOT was jus for brief periods, then a quick throttle chop, cool down and WOT again later.
Sounds nuts to me. See my post above. Easy dose it works.
Again maybe it is the coil or something else.
Good luck.
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Post by xs650 on Aug 10, 2009 7:29:59 GMT -5
I'm very sorry to hear that, but that wasn't a hard break-in, that was plain old abuse.
A hard break in is cycles of high load for a few seconds at a time, then back clear off the throttle.
You have unfortunately illustrated exactly why manufacturers don't try to give buyers hard break-in instructions and instead tell them to take it easy.
With luck you might get away with a piston, rings and a lightly honed cylinder.
tp555, Motoman's method isn't a theory, it's something manufacturers have been doing with their own engine for decades. If you read Motoman's instructions, he clearly tells you to use short bursts of power and it has nothing to do with Nikasil linings. If you actually correctly interpret Motoman's instructions, you wouldn't even run full throttle for 0-30 on a new 150cc scooter engine without backing off the throttle.
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Post by Alsenor on Aug 10, 2009 10:04:22 GMT -5
My worst fears are that you guys are right, although I am still hanging on to faint hopes of having a CDI problem or something else of lesser evil. My problem was that my state highway 99 melted into I.5. for a short stretch, and I although I had my buddy ride cover behind me (the guy on the little Honda chopper) I didn't dare chop my gas too hard and too often for fear of traffic coming up on us from behind. So my WOT periods lasted probably a minute or two at a time, which is longer than I would have otherwise.  A beautiful Sunday morning, all ready to leave - with great expectations...  with a sad ending to a promising Sunday!  |
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Post by xs650 on Aug 10, 2009 12:27:41 GMT -5
Maybe you are lucky. If it still doesn't start, check for spark when you crank it. Lay a spark plug on something metal, near the engine and crank the engine over. You should see spark if the CDI and coil are working.
Don't try to make the spark jump a big distance, the CDIs and coils don't like that, particularly cheap ones.
The bit of optimism is that your scoot idled for awhile after you stopped. Usually when you toast an engine like that, it won't idle right away.
Here's to luck.
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Post by Alsenor on Aug 10, 2009 12:48:46 GMT -5
Yes, I remember doing that as a kid. We usually held the plug against the cylinder head. Of course, on the scooters you have to figure out how to get to the whole thing first, and what plastic panels to rip off! ;D
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Post by Alsenor on Aug 10, 2009 15:08:41 GMT -5
Believe it or not, I actually got all the panels off without breaking any. Confidently, I placed the plug removal socket onto the NGK... damn thing won't fit! After lunch I plan to run to the next auto supply house and try to buy one that fits. Why the hell can't they standardize stuff like spark plug heads?!  |
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Post by Alsenor on Aug 10, 2009 17:05:28 GMT -5
Now I came home from the auto supply store with a larger one (11/16 OR-V Taiwan) - and it still won't fit over the spark plug! So what size do we need?
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Post by kz1000st on Aug 10, 2009 17:30:13 GMT -5
OK, so much for "Ride it like you stole it" I take it easy for the first 500 miles and then ride it like I want to make it home after that. I forgot that with the scooter and broke a valve spring. I won't forget it after this.
It worked on all my motorcycles, especially the one that went 125,000 miles and it seems to be working on the 650.
Sounds to me Al, like a scorched piston, plain and simple. Rings have seized into the piston. No compression, no start.
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Post by Alsenor on Aug 10, 2009 18:17:10 GMT -5
I was afraid of that too. The only ray of hope I still have is the fact that the engine idled smoothly after the power loss, before I switched it off.
Should a scorched piston idle smoothly?
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Post by Kiwiscoot on Aug 10, 2009 19:10:56 GMT -5
The poll does not reflect a proper hard break-in.
I did a "hard" break-in which is basically not a proper term. It is more of a correct quick break-in. There is scientific data to back up the procedure. It is also the procedure the factories use for the initial factory break-in. Search the internet for Motoman and read the articles/procedures to do a proper break-in. It's all about hard acceleration for a few seconds (to get rings bed in) and closed throttle de-acceleration(to get rings cleaned from metal deposits) followed by a cool down time. Taking the time/speed in small steps. Then riding it in traffic like that, hard acceleration followed with de-acceleration.
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harpomoto
Big Dawg
Dumb Blonde? We Shall See
Posts: 17
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Post by harpomoto on Aug 10, 2009 19:44:55 GMT -5
I've taken an interest in this cause i may get a new scoot soon, i hope. Sounds like a hard break in is alot of varying your speed. Never just running along a one speed More on and off throttle. Don't hold it at any one speed for to long. Sounds like you need a long road with very little traffic so you can hit 50 20 40 30 and other mph back and forth. Does this sound right.
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Post by gary2gs on Aug 10, 2009 20:02:12 GMT -5
Harpomoto, I'd say you're on the right path. Keep an eye on this thread. I'm sure you'll learn more about breaking-in. Here's your first bone.
Alsenor, man what a bummer. Maybe with some luck it won't be that bad. I'm sure you'll keep us posted.
I'll check the socket size for my spark plug and let you know what it is.
Gary S.
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Post by Alsenor on Aug 10, 2009 20:14:25 GMT -5
Sounds like a hard break in is alot of varying your speed. Never just running along a one speed More on and off throttle. Don't hold it at any one speed for to long. Sounds like you need a long road with very little traffic so you can hit 50 20 40 30 and other mph back and forth. Does this sound right. Sure does. As far as that is concerned the same applies to conventional break-in. The major difference is the hard acceleration and deceleration the MotoMan method asks for. |
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