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Post by mcmama on Jun 25, 2008 22:31:23 GMT -5
Isawhim, I re-checked the exhaust, and guess what - not nuts at all! Either side. I thought they were all the way up when I first checked, but I compared it to my other scooter (same model) and realized the nuts were just not there. I can't imagine they both fell off. They must have been missing all along. Any idea where I can buy them? I must confess, this finding makes me a bit nervous about quality control. I'm concerned that things can come loose or fall off, or aren't even there - and I don't know about it. Thanks, MCMAMA
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Post by leshassell on Jun 26, 2008 0:45:29 GMT -5
Yes, it is 'legal' or more appropriately, acceptable by the DMV if the VIN number matches. None of my scoots except the Honda have ever matched the MCOs. For example, the il Bello I registered said Flyscooters Il Bello on the MCO and when the DMV put it into the computer, it said Baron Retro. My insurance also says Baron Retro. When I received the title from the state, it also said Baron Retro. The MCO is just an origin document. As long as it's signed or stamped and the VIN number matches, that's all you need. In some states, like here for example, they don't even check the VIN number. But make sure yours matches, or else you might have problems down the road with the resale. -Rich Thanks, Rich. I'll give it a shot.
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Post by isawhim on Jun 26, 2008 0:52:51 GMT -5
I found replacement nuts at "ACE HARDWARE"... I will look and see if I still have the package. It is not a normal size, not even for metric!
The thread is funny on the bolts.
You should get a lock-washer and lock-tite on it too.
Running off to look.
(I am still trying to figure-out why my stupid crank-case vent is spitting so much oil-mist. I had to wipe off the whole CVT today, it came out so much! Only does that at WOT, and 65-75 MPH. Man, that super charge thing sounds sick! I am starting to think that I don't have enough air flowing through that hepa-filter thing. Going to try a sponge-filter.)
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Post by isawhim on Jun 26, 2008 4:03:51 GMT -5
Ok, I can't find the nut info on the size, however, it seems to be a standard long-nut, for exhausts on scooters. (Should be about 1/2 long, with a rounded top.)
I have come to a conclusion on the "Mystery Oil", which is getting into the air-filter, and leaking all over.
The super-charge thing, (Which is more of a EGR system.), is creating mad pressure in the baffle chamber. That pressure is being sucked-in by the carb-intake, along with fresh air from the filter, and the pressurized air from the valve-pressure-release line.
At high speed, there is a lot of crank-case pressure, and a lot of super-charge pressure. This high pressure has little need for filtered fresh air. The unburned air/fuel from the super-charge, and the semi-mixed air from the crank-case, is enough to keep the bike running. Sad that it does not thin the fuel, at the same time. (Possibly it does, from the diaphragm carb. There is a vacuum line going into the diaphragm!)
Any-who... Translation, please...
The oil is hot, misty, and flinging all around in the valve-cover area. That mist and also droplets of oil, are being blown into the pressure release line. The line connects to the air-filter, and SHOULD have a nice mixture with the incoming fresh-air.
However, the super-charge pressure which is closer to the carb, is lowering the demand for fresh air to be drawn into the filter area. So, there is no mixing, the mist just spits out, and collects on the walls, instead of being sucked into the carb.
Eventually, enough collects on the walls and puddles down into the loose-seals of the air-filter.
Ultimate problem... Poor design with the super-charge setup, trying to use an existing air-filter design, which was not intended for this arrangement. I am guessing that they will be working on development of a proper system.
Possible resolutions...
Place a check-valve, like a car has. Similar to an in-line PCV valve. Have the positive pressure from the crank-case merge with the super-charge line, or have it attached to another location on the baffle, not the air-filter.
The negative pressure, separated with a reverse PCV in-line valve, would connect to the air-filter location. It can suck all the fresh air it wants. It just has to stop blowing nasty oil-air into the filtered air side of the air-filter.
I suspect that this may not be a long-term thing. Crank-case pressure is abnormally high, with super-tight rings and valve-slides. Eventually, some pressure will be removed, as it escapes into the piston, and through the intake valve-slides. As for now, it is like a rubber heart, pumping and sucking violently, and throwing stuff all over, at high RPM/speeds.
I am sure that the negative cabin pressure is not helping. That tends to suck air out of the filter, that is trying to be sucked in for the engine. (Might be another reason the super-charge thing works so well! It restores sea-level pressure values on the opposite side of the diaphragm.)
I am about 99% sure, that the filter-case they used on the ITA-150T, was intended to be used as a "Positive Pressure", case. There is an over-pressure valve on the bottom, near the back, and the intake has a ram-duct opening. However, the ram-duct opening is being blocked by the ITA-150T's body design.
I will be experimenting soon. I also think that the filter-case was originally designed with a foam-filter and possibly a ghetto PCV style check-valve. The hose connects to an odd shaped inset connection, with a shaped inner structure, that looks like it would accommodate a plastic or rubber flap, over the hose-inlet. Thus, making it a one-way flow. In only, not pulsing in and out. (I don't think that would help the oil problem... unless it didn't have the super-charge on it too.)
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Post by semperfi on Jun 27, 2008 19:52:35 GMT -5
semperfi, Will you be posting your PDI experience with your scooter? I recall you've found 7 issues, non-too serious. The following is a summary with defect photos of my Post Delivery Inspection (PDI). The most serious defect was discovered by Isawhim (Plastic chips breaking loose on the air filter). For short term, I sealed over the melted plastic tabs with a high temp silicone RTV. Long term, I'll replace with an after market filter. Since I did not start the engine before the PDI, these chips probably broke loose during the Factory QA test?? (with tongue in cheek) The engine compartment had a few quality issues and a lot of loose screws. The most serious was the pinched breather hose which was easily fixed by bending the gold anodized bracket down just a bit more. The carburetor manifold bolts were so loose, it could easily be causing the "weed whacker" sound a few folks have reported. The bolt/nut that clamp the carb to the manifold were mismatched. This defect would have sucked serious air and dirt into the engine if not caught during the PDI. I noticed a small offset in the air intake ducting which was easily dremeled down. The rear fender had a lot of up & down play to it. After removing the Tupperware, you can see why. I added a small spacer between the metal bracket and the plastic catch to raise the fender up to fit snugly under the tail light assy, taking out a lot of the gaposis so the fender does not rattle itself to pieces. I did not like the cheesy aluminum grips this bike came with. I replaced them with a set of M1 Spider grips. www.spidergrips.com/id3.htmlI discovered about a half ohm resistance between the negative battery terminal and the bike frame steel. Normally this would not be a big deal, but I installed a Stebel air-horn that benefits greatly from a low resistance ground. I added an additional 6 inch length of 6AWG wire from the negative terminal directly to the frame of the scooter which took care of the issue. If you start the scooter using the remote, the only way to shut the engine off is using the remote, the red kill switch on the right bar only works if the engine is started using the key and the manual start button. Fixing the wiring on the kill switch to KILL the engine unrelated to how it was started, should be a nice rainy day project. Found ZERO exhaust valve clearance. In fact, I had to back the tappet 3 full turns to get .003. The intake was on spec. Replaced the engine and gearbox oil with good stuff and did the majority of my break-in rides with the Tupperware removed from the engine compartment. This allows easy access to identify and repair some of the quality defects. Overall I'm very pleased with the ride and design of this scooter. Loose nuts and bolts are a fact of life on these scoots and one just needs to inspect often, not just during the PDI. I'm hoping a good parts manual will appear on the web soon. July 4th update:I just installed a Sunon Mag-Lev 145CFM fan wired to a normally open 176 Deg F. Klixon thermostat. The thermostat is placed on top of the valve cover. The fan turns on after about 10 minutes of riding and stays on during the ride. After I shut the engine down, the fan stays on for about 3.5 minutes. This keeps the engine compartment cool in slow traffic and during hot days. I used a dremel tool on the plastic vent cover, making more slots to bring in more air to cool the engine compartment area. Just completed a 130 mile ride with lots of Wide Open Throttle (WOT) 6000-7500 RPM and found no oil residue in my air box or on the CVT. Cruises very comfortable at 60mph at around 6000 rpm (on level ground). After all this, old Ruff & Ready is asking to play ball. Gotta run!
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Post by dtwscooter on Jun 27, 2008 20:14:38 GMT -5
Serperfi, that's detailed PDI if I ever saw one. +1 for you! I will look for those next time I go 'under the hood'.
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Post by bkbroiler on Jun 27, 2008 22:37:16 GMT -5
Yeah great review semperfi! I agree about those terrible metal handgrips. When I test rode that scooter, I also decided that I would change those immediately if I had bought it. They seem dangerous because the lack good grip.
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Post by mcmama on Jun 28, 2008 23:20:59 GMT -5
Semperfi, I noticed you mention changing the grips. I have the same scooter. How do I get the old grips off, and how do I put the new ones on? Thanks! MCMAMA
PS: Love your Dawg!
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Post by mcmama on Jun 28, 2008 23:26:46 GMT -5
isawhim, thanks for the tips. I couldn't find the nuts, so I brought it up to my mech. He had them and put them on in a minute- sounds much better now! MCMAMA
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Post by semperfi on Jun 29, 2008 13:16:05 GMT -5
Semperfi, I noticed you mention changing the grips. I have the same scooter. How do I get the old grips off, and how do I put the new ones on? Thanks! MCMAMA PS: Love your Dawg! Replacing the left grip was real work.1. The end cap does not hold the grip on the bar and will freely rotate because the screw inside is free to turn, so I used a vise grip to pull it off. 2. The aluminum grip must have been factory pressed onto the bar since the only way I could get it off was to use a vise grip at the end and slowly twist it off. This of course pretty much destroys the aluminum grip but "Que Sera". 3. Once you have the old grip off, clean the bar well and apply just a dab of blue Permatex RTV on the bar. 4. The new grip will slide on with a good amount of coaxing and elbow grease. Be sure to push the new grip all the way on so that there is no wiggle at the end cap. Replacing the right grip was easy.1. Pull the end cap off with vise grips or you can remove the throttle assembly and use a screwdriver to remove the end cap. 2. The aluminum grip slides off the plastic throttle sleeve very easily so you shouldn’t need vise grips. 3. Clean the white plastic throttle sleeve, add a dab of the blue stuff then slide on the new grip with just minimal coaxing. I paid $15 for the new grips and they're worth every penny. Seems like the factory could save a few bucks by switching to rubber grips Old aluminum grip complete with vise grip marks and end cap removed! New Spider Grip
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Post by mcmama on Jun 29, 2008 20:50:25 GMT -5
Thanks! BYW, where did you buy the spider grips - they look nice! MCMAMA
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Post by isawhim on Jun 29, 2008 22:58:49 GMT -5
These were similar to the original bolts... for the exhaust... M6X1.0 Ebay: (Scooter exhaust nuts) cgi.ebay.com/GY6-6mm-exhaust-nuts-Scooter-ATV-go-kart--Yerf-Dog-_W0QQitemZ150264352705QQcmdZViewItem?IMSfp=TL0806281558r3344A note about the rear-mud-guard photo... That tab will break-off soon... That tiny tab was not intended to hold the bounce-weight of the rear mud-guard. There should be a metal spreader that inserts into that guard, comes up through that hole, and physically mounts onto that rear piece. Looks like another poor design production cost saving. Your mud-guard will rub against your tire on impact of a high-speed bump. It will touch, just behind the red-reflector, where the reflector screw could possibly cut into the tire. (Granted, you have to ride it hard, like I do, to have that happen. It has not cut into my tire, but it has grazed it a few times. There are tire abrasion marks just above the reflector indentation.) My cabin was not as bad, but I was missing a bolt that holds the break-line support, under the air-filter. My resolution to the tabs missing on the air-filter screen, as stated earlier, in another post, was to use two sheet-metal screws. Do not screw them in, from the same side as the screen/tabs... they may unscrew, and get sucked into the engine. Screw them in from the front of the filter. One on each of the short-sides, at an angle, along the raised plastic that holds the filter element. Drill or hand-whittle, two tiny pilot holes, at an angle, so the screw threads are angled across the metal screen, holding it onto the raised studs, which you should remove the melted plastic tabs off. Just use your nail, and snap the melted "O", melted plastic pieces right off, if they are still there. Looking for that picture of my air-filter solution. Not that it matters... the mismatched air-hole... there is not a lot of air movement through the actual air-filter. The intake hole is smaller, and that hole is larger than the intake. The baffle on the other side, where the super-charger is blowing in air, has plenty. The carb intake hole is smaller than the air-filter hole, which also makes mismatching irrelevant. (Remember, all these carbs are negative-pressure, sucking is equal in all directions. Only in a positive pressure line, mismatched girths be a problem. Like for exhaust.) The intake should be positive-pressure, but it is not. It is negative pressure, due to the body design, and using the improper filter case for the super-charger. (Well, the case might be right, but it is used improperly, in this setup. Not bad, just limits efficiency at high-speeds. Same with all the other scooters, but this one feels it less, because of the super-charge thing.) I have also decided to use a normal soda-bottle, as the oil-catch from the crank-case pressure release, which comes off the valve-cover. The bottle will catch the blown-oil, before it gets to the filter, allowing me to simply re-use it, and stopping it from dripping all over the CVT as it drips out of the air-filter. Might use the inline PCV I found also... because that seems to help a lot. The negative pressure seems to reduce positive pressure that exits, when the engine is running at lower speeds. If I connect a "T" near the valve-cover... With the second line going to the bottom of the can, where the oil is captured... On the intake, since that line does not have a PCV valve, it will suck the oil back into the engine. (I hope)
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Post by semperfi on Jun 30, 2008 1:56:43 GMT -5
I was amazed when I saw that little plastic tab holding the entire rear fender in place. A lot of companies are big into VE/CE or Value Engineering / Cost Engineering, SixSigma, Lean Enterprise, whatever you want to call it. As long as they can shave a few cents off each scoot each year, they get to keep their jobs. I might as well "reverse engineer" the bracket as Isawhim suggested to prevent chewing up the tires and fender when I hit a big chuck hole. I bought the Spider Grips from a local motorcycle shop. The Spider website at www.spidergrips.com/id6.html provides links to a bunch of distributors.
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Post by isawhim on Jun 30, 2008 3:00:44 GMT -5
A coat-hanger can be fabricated to mount it correctly. Once my darn camera charges, I will post a picture. (Basically, the coat-hanger is formed into an "O", and bent so that it looks like a top-hat profile... Wide base, with a section that can be slipped up through the hole, and mounted into the existing "J" mount, that is in that photo.) Below is the problem with the air-box design/use. (Most scooters have this problem also.) The TOP image shows the correct mounting position, for this "Positive Pressure" air-box to function. Air passes over the body of the scooter, into the tiny ram-duct, and the pressurized air is forced through the filter. Excess air drains out the back drain-port, or the pressure inside the air-box stops more air from entering the tiny ram-duct. The filtered air is also slightly pressurized, because of the additional pressure from the pressure relief line that comes off the valve-cover, and from the super-charger inside the baffle, before the carb intake. Since the engine only sucks-in 1/4 of the time... there should always be positive pressure. However... The bottom image shows the flaws... Air passes OVER the ram-duct, not into it. Thus, it is no longer a ram-duct, it is just a restricted hole leading into the filter-box. As the air speeds past the gap, it sucks air out of the box. This is a chimney effect. This is how your carb sucks fuel from the fuel-bowl. Fast air moving over a 90 degree opening, creates a suction flute. The air is now TRYING to suck out, while the carb is TRYING to suck air through the filter. Two negative forces working against one another. Creates a "Simulated" high-altitude situation. This is also where the oil issue is worsened at high speeds. The relief valve is blowing out more now, and also being sucked out through the filter and through the carb at the same time. Half the oil-air goes into the carb, while the rest deposits along the walls of the air-box, in the journey towards the filter. The super-charger, at that moment is also pouring out a lot of air into the baffle. That does not help the reverse flow that is happening. This is why your filter will seem to take forever to get dirty... it is not even being used most of the time. At low speeds, it works fine. There is not a lot of suction from the chimney effect or from the engine load. NOTE: Oops... I just noticed that I drew the air-relief valve on the unfiltered side, on the far left of the images... it is actually on the filtered side, so excess pressure on the opposite side of the filter, can escape... (You don't want high positive pressure inside the carb area, or you can blow the head, if it is not tuned to handle the high pressure. That would involve a piston with a larger area for compression, and a fuel-injection system to adjust fuel for the large level of air, when running "Turbo", or a larger jet to compensate for the lack of suction power that would be created by the chimney effect. You would run lean, as if you ran without a filter on.)I have not decided if I am going to extend the air-box, or add a second ram-duct to it. (That way, it will have more air, freely at idle, and when driving full-speed, it will have positive pressure, with the ability for excess pressure to escape out the other ram-duct on the air-box.) My other project is related to the valve-cover pressure release, also seen to the right-side in those drawings... To stop or reduce the oil from collecting in the air-box, I will be testing this... A PCV-valve will be placed on the long tube, so the only pressure that will exit the valve-cover, will be positive air, blowing into the canister. The negative pressure, if there is any, will suck any collected oil from the bottom of the canister, by using an oil-check-valve. The result should be a clean blast of pulsed air, exiting the tube to the air-box. (There will be mist, and the mist will still condensate on the cooler walls of the tube, dripping back down into the bottle.) The location of the bottle has not been determined yet. I want a lot of length to the hose, so the mist and droplets have time to condense, and enter the bottle as a glob of oil. The longer the distance the oil has to travel through the tube, to get back to the crank-case... the longer it has to cool, and the less stress it places on the oil-check-valve. (The tube-resistance will help reduce the back-flow from positive pressure, in the event of valve failure.) Once again... all scooters have this issue. Some have it more than others, because of design, because the carb sucks it in better, or because they drain it to the ground and live with the lost oil. (I don't like to dump oil on the ground, and risk it getting all over my tire, and I don't like fouling my plug, and burning it in my exhaust. There is a better way!) NOTE: This canister will be an aluminum, thin-wall canister. Aluminum tubes inside, will be soldered and/or J&B welded. The canister will get warm, not hot, but has the potential to be pressurized under high-load. The vent-tube will be wide, with a restriction on the end, allowing the compressed vent-air to accelerate condensation, and limit canister pressurization. The line going to the air-box, exiting the canister, will also be large and without restriction. (That will slow-down the exiting air also.) The hose for the oil will be aluminum for most of the length, and the check-valve will be close to the canister. (That allows the cooler oil, headed to the engine, to act as the pre-resistance to the check-valve. The suction will/should be mild, since the oil will take time to build. When no oil is present, the check-valve should stop the positive pressure from traveling that path. However, it will cause no harm, if the oil-check-valve does not restrict the positive flow of air through the oil-drain line.)
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Post by semperfi on Jun 30, 2008 17:02:38 GMT -5
Isawhim,
Sounds like you have a good engineering background. Wouldn't be surprised if you've authored a few patents!
I'm not sure how much oil you are seeing in your airbox, though your post on 25-Jun states its quite a bit. For the folks just coming onboard, they may find the following of interest:
My neighbor was getting a large amount of oil in his air box and it turned out to be excessive gases blowing past the piston rings into the crankcase, which then get routed to the air box via the CC breather. He had about 1200 miles on the scoot. He found the problem by running a compression test after the engine was warmed up and found the cylinder PSI to be low ~ 100PSI, (nominal is ~ 130PSI). So... he mic'd the piston and cylinder wall (checked OK), installed new rings, honed the cylinder, performed a few break-in rides and problem solved. He thought the problem was attributed to excessive heating during the original break-in period by idling too long (over an hour). Of course he didn't have a "super charge" arrangement like the ITA and I doubt this is your problem since you just got your bike and have not reported any loss in power. Would be interesting though to see what you measure for compression. It may also be interesting to put a peak reading pressure gauge on that CC breather line and see what it reads at WOT.
I thought I might buy a compression tester ($20.00) just to get a baseline on my scoot for future comparison. I may open a thread "List your GY6 compression PSI and miles". It would be interesting to log the compression PSI say every 500 miles or so or after every oil change. Of course valve clearance & seating will have an effect on compression but poor valve seating shouldn't cause excessive blow by to the CC, causing large oil accumulation in the air box.
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Post by isawhim on Jul 1, 2008 2:32:36 GMT -5
No patents from me... I would rather it be free, and available to an open market... If you can make it cheaper, and better... then do it... so I can buy it. Patents retard advancement. Not to mention, they can make you go broke... Everyone wants to sue you, once you claim to own something similar to them. Even if the claims are unjustified, they still try to jump into your pocket, and pull out a dime.
The CC system on my bike is as dry as a bone... (I think the vacuum controlled valve is the reason that line is so dry. Only opens on the intake stroke, making it easy to suck air into the piston, while blowing that CC air into the intake. Does not seem to be open on the exhaust/power/compress stroke.)
I am guessing it is the normal mist, in addition to the super-suction issue, in addition to the super speed oil flying off the valve-rockers, getting sucked into the valve-cover air-pressure release.
Now, you have to know my drama... To me... forty dime-sized drops is a LOT... I am not loosing a quart a day... (It is enough, that it covers the whole top of the CVT, and has a puddle inside the air-filter, and runs the entire lower length of the filter seam. LOL, I run WOT a LOT, just for fun.)
If I run normal for a week, only going 45-50... I see one tiny drop. When I do a half hour of 70-75 on the highways/interstate, is when I see the puddles begin to form.
I am going to make a temporary 2" extension, to bring the air-box out, into the wind-force, and see if that 70 MPH wind pressure helps to balance the engines desire to spit at me. I am not having any good luck with a ram-duct, using the existing opening, since it sits only 1" away from the body-edge.
My camera is charged, now all I have to do is rip-apart the body and seat, to take a photo of the wire mount that I crafted to replace that plastic mount on the rear mud-guard.
Seriously... I am getting bored with all this tiny stuff... I wish there were real things wrong with the bike... Like a wheel flying off, or a handle-bar coming unwelded, or body-panels flying off... I never imagined that I would be driving this bike, more than repairing it... It is nice, for once, to be driving more than repairing. I think that is why I keep pushing it so hard... I secretly want it to fall apart! LOL
The CC tube problem, that you pointed-out...
I think I remember that too... Not the bolts, but the tube, touching the frame. I bent the mount down a little, and placed two washers under the mount bracket, so it was raised at a higher angle. When the bike is off the stand, the hose should not touch the frame. The engine twists, and the nose/valve-cover side dips down. When you sit on it, it will move away further from the body-tube-frame.
(I am planning on relocating that also. I want to move it to the side of the carb, near the ignition coil location. There is a large gap there, and more room, with a new bracket.)
I think we are on our second impression now...
LOL, I still love it... Looks good moving or parked, rides well, loves potholes and bumps, does burn-outs with ease, flies past cars, when they can't handle the hills, fast off the line, great top speed, cozy seat, cozy foot-rests, bright lights, good break controlled skids and stopping, plenty of leg-room, tall-person friendly, alarm is low-drain, exhaust is quiet, plenty of room for neons, plenty of room for a seat speakers and amp, does not mind rain or mud...
Things I don't care for... Rack does not seem superb but it looks hot, bike is not short-person friendly, glove-box needs better storage design, seat trunk seam does not cover the back half of the seat trunk but the seat does cover it fine, alarm sensitivity instruction must be researched on the net due to lack of a manual, rear mud-guard needs better mounting, air-filter and valve-cover pressure-release needs a better design, front mud-guard could be more secure, exhaust bolts could use a lock-washer, generator/stator could use more power/amps since the lights are always on...
Wait a month, then I will give you my third impression...
Conclusion... The bike is great, can easily be made better, is possible to be made perfect, and little is required to make it better than great.
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Post by dtwscooter on Jul 5, 2008 20:57:04 GMT -5
Just a quick update: (perhaps this is my third impression LOL ) With the help of gy6rocket(thanks again!) I upjetted from 35/102 to 40/115. No other adjustments were needed.
I didn't notice much at first, but after riding for sometime there was significant improvement in the mid-range pull. The scooter holds speeds better especially going up hill. I'm pleased with the up jetting. FYI.
Just turned over 1500 miles. Changed the oil and changed the to iridium spark plug. I'm thinking I should be ordering a new drive belt. Does anyone know what size this takes?
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Post by dtwscooter on Jul 8, 2008 0:06:18 GMT -5
I'm double posting but here it goes. Another update: my exhaust hanger bolts broke. There are 3, front 2 and one rear. As it turns out the rear hanger bolt was missing in action, front lower sheared off and the front upper was the only one holding the brunt of the exhaust weight(it weighs a lot).
So off to the hardware store for some fasteners.
Besure to check your exhaust nuts and bolts once in a while. It's a whole lot easier to tighten then replacing. And besure to put in locking washer or some thread lock while you are in there.
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Post by jspringator on Jul 11, 2008 10:11:22 GMT -5
What about using Loctite Green 290, which is designed to wick into the threads without disassembling for the exhaust bolts. I don't intend on changing the exhaust. I know it takes heat to remove, but it looks like the major problem with these things is loosing the exhaust bolts. This looks like the easiest solution. www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=445105BTW, my exhaust nuts (if I'm looking at the right thing) don't appear to be the long closed end kind shown earlier on the e-bay site. Mine appear to be regular nuts.
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Post by jspringator on Jul 12, 2008 16:18:26 GMT -5
The exhaust nuts were finger tight. They were long but not closed in. Took them off and blue loctited them. Blue loctited 2 of 3 hanger bolts. Had to remove the lower pan. Fuel filter was on backwards. Replaced it and the hose and vacuum hose to the fuel petcock. Couldn't access the fuel line from the filter to the carb so left it stock for now. The big thick vacuum hose at the front top of the engine was kinked, so I replaced it.
The only problem I'm having is the absence of fast idle when cold. Could my enricher be defective?
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Post by dtwscooter on Jul 12, 2008 21:31:02 GMT -5
js, Glad to see that you got the scooter sorted out. The exhaust PDI is very good thing to do in light of fact that it took me 1/2 day to sort out the mess after it became a problem - imagine trying to remove broken bolt, behind the bracket, wedged below the tightening surface. Not to mention tracking down metric bolts at the hardware stores Another update: Installed HID headlamp today. I've wanted to do this for awhile as there is great benefit - 5 times the light for the same electricity consumed. Installing it took better part of the day for several reasons: 1) I was discovering how the scooter circuit was laid out 2) I was buying parts as I needed them 3) Was trying to be as tidy and not prone to vibration issues Highlights: * this scooter uses AC to the ligting circuit * thus HID was connected directly to the battery via a relay * original headlamp AC circuit was used to trigger the relay * rectifier was used to convert the AC trigger to DC for the relay * step down resistor was used to provide 12V to the relay(I destroyed the first relay because this wasn't done) * smoothing capacitor was used to ensure the relay did not bounce due to DC ripple * high beam circuit was disenabled as HID can not provide it After round two(due to detroying the first relay) it was conveniently 9pm I took it around the neighborhood and I can see about 150ft down the road very brightly. There is distinct beam of light that is projected onto the road. I plan to monitor the battery voltage carefully as mine is running off the battery. For added measure, I installed charging jack in the front panel so I can easily plug in a float charger overnight, if needed. I will report back with update to the HID installation and any follow up issues.
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Post by josiah08 on Jul 13, 2008 11:23:43 GMT -5
I just bought this scooter and was wondering what the plastic hookup near the battery is for. Its located to the left of the batter, (when your facing the rear of the scooter) and has a green and black wire with a white plastic female connector. For some reason, my horn isnt working; could this be related to the hookup? I looked for a connector/additional wiring that it should connect to, but didnt find anything. What should i do?
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Post by jspringator on Jul 13, 2008 14:22:15 GMT -5
Did a 30 mile ride, mostly wide open today. I have oil leaking from the air box. I'm hoping this is due to a very tight engine (80 miles) and this problem will go away with break in.
Mine was badged a BMS Pathfinder and is mostly identical, but doesn't have an alarm (that I can find) or the ugly metal grips.
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Post by dtwscooter on Jul 14, 2008 23:25:45 GMT -5
Update on the HID installation: As it's connected directly to the battery there is negative charge margin. Afterall, the charge system is still AC and only portion of that is converted to DC to feedback to battery. I'm still sloshing around the complete DC conversion.
Here is what I found on the battery drain. first thing in the morning - 12.9V after two 25 mile trips - 12.45V 6 more engine start/stop cycles - 12.1V
So it looks like there is about 8 engine starts before topped off battery hits 12V mark. To me this is useable as I can plug in the float charger over night to top off the battery.
Will converting everything to DC eliminate the negative charge margin? If yes, where is the efficiency found I wonder?
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Post by isawhim on Jul 15, 2008 0:29:16 GMT -5
I just bought this scooter and was wondering what the plastic hookup near the battery is for. Its located to the left of the batter, (when your facing the rear of the scooter) and has a green and black wire with a white plastic female connector. For some reason, my horn isnt working; could this be related to the hookup? I looked for a connector/additional wiring that it should connect to, but didnt find anything. What should i do? Can you take a photo of it? Sounds like you are describing the "Ground" wire for the entire bike electrical system. (The thick wire is for the starter, not the electronics. There should be a thick/thin red and thick/thin green wire. The two red wires are connected, but the two ground wires are separate.)
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Post by isawhim on Jul 15, 2008 1:11:50 GMT -5
I'm still sloshing around the complete DC conversion. Here is what I found on the battery drain. first thing in the morning - 12.9V after two 25 mile trips - 12.45V 6 more engine start/stop cycles - 12.1V So it looks like there is about 8 engine starts before topped off battery hits 12V mark. To me this is usable as I can plug in the float charger over night to top off the battery. Will converting everything to DC eliminate the negative charge margin? If yes, where is the efficiency found I wonder? The scooter will charge itself up to 12.5v roughly... My "Battery Tender", will push it closer to 14.5v, on a full charge. (16.5v is pushing it, but possible.) I forgot the amps value... I will get that again. I do know that it charges up to 14.5V, at about 1.75A near full throttle. I didn't check for other loads while I had the amp-meter running. That explains why my 6.5A radio, 0.5A fan, and 2.5A neons were draining my battery! Keep an eye on your regulator temperature... If there is too much energy draw through the regulator diodes, they will fry and short. You might have better luck with the HID, if you get some large diodes, and use that same capacitor and resistor combo, to smooth-out the pulse on the AC line. (Since that is not regulated, like the DC, you will have more amperage available.) Though, if you got a real (Bridge Rectifier), full bridge, not half... as it appears we have... You could convert all the AC to DC, with one unit. (That might require a voltage regulator for the battery charge, since it may overcharge with a full conversion.) www.web-tronics.com/semiconductor-devices-rectifiers-35-amp-bridge-rectifiers.htmlSince I believe that half of the AC is used for the battery charge, you may only see a half-wave conversion for the lights. (Possibly a high/low wave, since only part of voltage is used for the battery, from half of one wave/pulse.) Crack-out your oscilloscope! My voltmeter shows odd readings on the AC for the lights. More efficient... not sure. DC looses voltage in the conversion from AC, through the diodes, and through long-wires. However, there are no real long wires in a scooter. Your only limitation is the amps/watts that the rectifier can handle. Lights don't normally care if it is AC or DC... but HID is above me. It will be better than the load from your relay... (Guessing you are using a standard automotive relay. Those are overkill, but good quality. 30A load, I am also guessing... That will handle 360watts!)
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Post by dtwscooter on Jul 15, 2008 15:20:44 GMT -5
I appreciate the feedback. I did think about putting in my own bridge rectifier and home brewing the DC conversion. I already had a 30A 50V bridge rectifier. But the issue is the voltage increases after the rectification and capacitor filter. You end up with AC RMS x 1.4 so about (12.4(1.4) - 0.7) = 16.7VDC.
I think 16.7VDC is too much for the battery and other components. So I need to think about voltage regulator at 14.4V which for 7A circuit is not trivial. So I'm still sloshing in my head what next step is. In the mean time the float charger will keep me going.
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Post by josiah08 on Jul 16, 2008 12:28:17 GMT -5
I found out what the white plastic connector (w/ green and black wires) is for. Turns out, its for the kill switch thats supposed to be wired to the kickstand. For some reason, it was not hooked up at all. (When jumpered, it cuts the engine off..and it prevents the engine from starting). Im going to look for any connection to the stand. I'll prob have to take off the floorboard/footrest. Hopefully, there will be some wiring and the male connector to hook it up...Also, the horn wasnt working until today--had to adjust the screw on the back--and glue it in place...now it works fine. Only have about 5 miles on it right now. Still waiting for MSO. Cant wait to get it on the road. I'll keep you posted.
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Post by jspringator on Jul 16, 2008 12:30:56 GMT -5
My kickstans starter kill switch must not be hooked up either because it will start with the kickstand down. I prefer it that way. Is it a major safety issue?
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Post by bkbroiler on Jul 16, 2008 12:56:32 GMT -5
My kickstans starter kill switch must not be hooked up either because it will start with the kickstand down. I prefer it that way. Is it a major safety issue? No consider that a benefit if anything. Unlike cars, it's recommended to warm-up your scooter a little before riding. Much easier to do if you can just leave it on the center stand while you're putting on your gear and loading your stuff.
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