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Post by markjhi on Feb 12, 2013 22:39:46 GMT -5
I'm looking to put a new battery in my 49cc Tao Tao scooter. What is the maximum amps battery I should be looking to install? My son is driving it in Wisconsin winter weather so I could use some good cca's. Any recommendations?
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Post by edfr on Feb 12, 2013 22:44:02 GMT -5
Max is 9amps no less than 7amps the charging system on the scoots are minimum at best. CCAs google for one that is near 200 or higher. Lefty
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Post by markjhi on Feb 12, 2013 22:49:56 GMT -5
Thanks for the quick reply Lefty. I'll hit the google airwaves and see what I can find.
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Post by wutzthedeal on Feb 13, 2013 2:12:19 GMT -5
I grabbed this one; inexpensive and works great and packs plenty of power. I actually can leave the scooter off for hours with my cell phone plugged in and my heated coffee mug. I do generally keep it up with a battery tender jr. My factory one was 3AH, around 40CCA, this one is 6AH, 90 CCA, and fits perfectly instead of sliding around like the old one. www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006A1Q1QU/ref=oh_details_o04_s00_i00#productDetails
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Post by markjhi on Feb 13, 2013 10:04:16 GMT -5
Thank you vey much for the link....I'll check it out!!
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Post by prodigit on Feb 13, 2013 15:01:39 GMT -5
There's no real max amp for batteries on a scooter, however it makes no sense to spend more money in a more powerful battery, that does exactly the same as a smaller battery. Actually, larger batteries have a heavier power draw on the stator, and usually cost and weigh more. 7Ah is good enough for a battery.
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Post by JR on Feb 13, 2013 21:59:28 GMT -5
There's no real max amp for batteries on a scooter, however it makes no sense to spend more money in a more powerful battery, that does exactly the same as a smaller battery. Actually, larger batteries have a heavier power draw on the stator, and usually cost and weigh more. 7Ah is good enough for a battery. Sorry that's not the case. The larger the AH on a fully charged battery the less the stator works in fact the R/R with a bigger and fully charged battery shunts non-needed voltage to ground. More CCA's help on starting especially in cold weather and doesn't drain the battery as quick as a lower CCA battery under full load when turning the engine over. On a 50cc GY-6 &AH does well but if you have room a 9AH will even be better. Very little extra cost between the two sizes sometimes none if you're a good shopper. JR
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Post by prodigit on Feb 14, 2013 1:45:55 GMT -5
Sorry that's not the case. The larger the AH on a fully charged battery the less the stator works in fact the R/R with a bigger and fully charged battery shunts non-needed voltage to ground. Don't get what you mean there. A fully charged battery does not draw any power from the stator at all, regardless of it's size. A larger half empty battery will draw more than smaller battery. I also wonder if it's necessary to get a bigger battery. If a 6Ah battery works fine, heck, even if a new 5A battery works fine, why get a 9A battery? 7A seems fine. I've got mine for about 6 months, and it starts just like new. 2 thing batteries don't like: 1, don't get them cold, and 2, Don't allow them to go empty.
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Post by JR on Feb 14, 2013 6:49:49 GMT -5
Sorry that's not the case. The larger the AH on a fully charged battery the less the stator works in fact the R/R with a bigger and fully charged battery shunts non-needed voltage to ground. Don't get what you mean there. A fully charged battery does not draw any power from the stator at all, regardless of it's size. A larger half empty battery will draw more than smaller battery. I also wonder if it's necessary to get a bigger battery. If a 6Ah battery works fine, heck, even if a new 5A battery works fine, why get a 9A battery? 7A seems fine. I've got mine for about 6 months, and it starts just like new. 2 thing batteries don't like: 1, don't get them cold, and 2, Don't allow them to go empty. You made this comment earlier, I disagreed: Actually, larger batteries have a heavier power draw on the statorSimply put a larger AH battery needs less charging. The R/R has a set of lower and upper demand charging specs, some even have one wire dedicated to only reading the voltage of the battery and load. If the battery is at a good level the R/R simply shunts any excess stator voltage to ground. The R/R demands less voltage of the stator if the battery has no needs. A lower AH battery has less AH thus demands more charging. It has less AH thus needs charging more often. If the battery drops to a certain level it adds charging amps to the battery. A larger AH which means amps per hour will need less charging because it has more to give. Also lower AH batteries have less CCA thus the load on them to start the scooter has a higher demand on the battery over a period than a higher AH/CCA battery. I can run my 250 on a 9AH battery for say up to 18 to 24 months and it gets weak and has to be replaced. The last time I put a battery on my wife's 250 I put a 14AH jet ski battery on it with 225CCA. Found one that was a perfect fit. It is now in it's 3rd year and I started the scooter yesterday doing spring PM, hasn't been started in over 2 months, when I started it the temp was 41F. I don't own a battery tender and don't charge my batteries all the time like others do. The 50cc scooter I have for my grand kids has a less than 2 year old 5AH battery on it from the factory, it was dead as a hammer. I will buy a battery this week for it and I'll put at least a 9AH battery on it and I don't buy the 6 month warranty junk batteries from Wally world. I still kick started the 50cc and ran it but on a 250cc you better have a good battery, they have no kick starter and they are a DC type CDI, weak or dead battery means no run period. 1, don't get them cold, and 2, Don't allow them to go emptyMore AH/CCA gives better starts when it's cold. I buy sealed no maintenance batteries, no worry about being empty. I buy these 1 year unconditionally warranty batteries from these people and they stand behind their warranty, if the battery fails on the 364th day from purchase they will replace it free of charge, no BS either. www.apexbattery.com/Lastly to make it simple just like a car battery, you can go to the parts store and buy a lower AH/CCA rated battery and it'll be cheaper and have say a replacement warranty of 3 years? But if you buy a higher rated AH/CCA battery it's cost more but has a 5 year replacement warranty, more AH costs more but it lasts longer and you get what you pay for. Just last Saturday I bought a new trolling motor battery for my boat, don't have to tell anyone what AH means to a trolling motor. They had some so big I could barely pick it up, some small ones and I got in the middle in the $90 range. Could have bought the huge one for about $190 and the clerk told me I would be a lot better off.....if I used my boat a lot. I'm a medium boat user and I told him I would save the $100 to take my wife out on a Valentine's night dinner. He didn't argue with that. ;D JR
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Post by prodigit on Feb 14, 2013 8:49:00 GMT -5
I'm so sorry JR, but I've always enjoyed your posts full of wisdom. The above however makes no sense at all!
You're describing exactly the opposite of what I believe is true, and on top of that, what practice points out as well!
A larger battery can store more energy, meaning it'll also demand more power when it's not full. On top of that, when both a 5 and a 9 Ah battery are (almost near) empty, the larger capacity battery will need longer charging, and draw more power than the smaller one. It's only logical.
And as far as batteries give more CCA in cold, I don't even need to go there to point out what perhaps 99.9999999% of the world (seemingly except you) experience. On a cold battery, voltage drops. Perhaps CCA's increase because voltage drops, I don't know, but overall power output of a battery drops, resulting in bad starts on a cold day, with the starter sometimes barely able to turn on the engine.
A battery is not a superconductor that will conduct better with lower temps, just the other way around. The acids become a gel in too cold, and battery ceases to function.
I do however agree with you, that a larger capacity battery will last longer. But why lug around the extra pounds when you don't have to?
I yet have the first battery go bad on me. Most of the time it goes bad when it's unused for a long time. So far, none of my scoots ever had the chance for that yet.
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Post by JR on Feb 14, 2013 10:54:27 GMT -5
Larger batteries have more plates and more amp capacity thus will turn over a starter on a cold day better than a lower CCA battery, not hard to know, it so easy to test for yourself. Volts has nothing to do with cranking and engine except the battery needs to be fully charged, amps is what makes the starter spin and the more of them the better. A cold engine has cold oil, cold parts and needs more amps to turn it over to start well, example diesel engines, put a little battery on a big V-8 diesel when it's 20F and see if it will start? When a battery drops voltage, even a small amount, it makes a big difference. For instance, when a battery drops from 12.6 to 12.0 volts, its power drops from 100% to 25%. At 12.4 volts, a car battery is 75% charged. At 12.2 volts, it's 50% charged.* A car battery is considered charged at 12.4 volts or higher. It is considered discharged when it's at 12.39 volts or less. Why do you think they put multiple batteries on large diesel engines, some even use a 24v system. Want to prove that your scooter with a 5AH battery will turn over better with more AH/CCA, simply hook it up to your car battery with jumper cables, even better take another identical 5AH battery and hook it up parallel with the one on your scooter. You have then doubled the CCA. Cold cranking amps (CCA) is a measurement of the number of amps a battery can deliver at 0 ° F for 30 seconds and not drop below 7.2 volts. So a high CCA battery rating is good especially in cold weather. If the battery is say 75CCA it will reach the 7.2 volts threshold a lot quicker than a battery with say 100CCA. Non acid batteries now which is what I use on my scooters is filled with a gel and the cold temp has a lot less effect than conventional acid. A larger battery can store more energy, meaning it'll also demand more power when it's not full.The battery doesn't demand power the needs of the scooter demand power from the battery and the R/R alone decides how a battery is charged on a scooter. You must also know that on a typical 50cc scooter the stator itself runs most of the functions and a battery's main purpose is to start the scooter, we all know that because you can run a AC type scooter by kick starting it with a completely dead battery. You can even start a 50cc scooter with no battery at all if it is a AC system. The acids become a gel in too cold, and battery ceases to function.If this was the case then people would be in a lot of trouble in extreme northern temps. Why do they put engine warmers on some engines that plug up to 110Vac? To keep the engine warmer to make it easier to start, they don't warm the battery however. A larger battery can store more energy, meaning it'll also demand more power when it's not fullNot so, a larger CCA battery will drop less of it's charge when starting a engine thus not need as long to charge back thus less load on the charging system. I do however agree with you, that a larger capacity battery will last longerVery simple a higher CCA battery will need less charging, less charging means longer life. We all know the more a battery is charged the shorter the life is example cell phone. Over charge it and it'll get weaker by the day until it won't hold a charge at all. JR
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Post by prodigit on Feb 14, 2013 14:19:42 GMT -5
1- Larger batteries have more plates and more amp capacity thus will turn over a starter on a cold day better than a lower CCA battery, not hard to know, it so easy to test for yourself. 2- Volts has nothing to do with cranking and engine except the battery needs to be fully charged, amps is what makes the starter spin and the more of them the better. A cold engine has cold oil, cold parts and needs more amps to turn it over to start well, example diesel engines, put a little battery on a big V-8 diesel when it's 20F and see if it will start? 3- When a battery drops voltage, even a small amount, it makes a big difference. For instance, when a battery drops from 12.6 to 12.0 volts, its power drops from 100% to 25%. At 12.4 volts, a car battery is 75% charged. At 12.2 volts, it's 50% charged.* A car battery is considered charged at 12.4 volts or higher. It is considered discharged when it's at 12.39 volts or less.4- Why do you think they put multiple batteries on large diesel engines, some even use a 24v system. Want to prove that your scooter with a 5AH battery will turn over better with more AH/CCA, simply hook it up to your car battery with jumper cables, even better take another identical 5AH battery and hook it up parallel with the one on your scooter. You have then doubled the CCA. Cold cranking amps (CCA) is a measurement of the number of amps a battery can deliver at 0 ° F for 30 seconds and not drop below 7.2 volts. So a high CCA battery rating is good especially in cold weather. If the battery is say 75CCA it will reach the 7.2 volts threshold a lot quicker than a battery with say 100CCA. Non acid batteries now which is what I use on my scooters is filled with a gel and the cold temp has a lot less effect than conventional acid. A larger battery can store more energy, meaning it'll also demand more power when it's not full.5- The battery doesn't demand power the needs of the scooter demand power from the battery and the R/R alone decides how a battery is charged on a scooter. You must also know that on a typical 50cc scooter the stator itself runs most of the functions and a battery's main purpose is to start the scooter, we all know that because you can run a AC type scooter by kick starting it with a completely dead battery. You can even start a 50cc scooter with no battery at all if it is a AC system. The acids become a gel in too cold, and battery ceases to function.If this was the case then people would be in a lot of trouble in extreme northern temps. Why do they put engine warmers on some engines that plug up to 110Vac? To keep the engine warmer to make it easier to start, they don't warm the battery however. A larger battery can store more energy, meaning it'll also demand more power when it's not full6- Not so, a larger CCA battery will drop less of it's charge when starting a engine thus not need as long to charge back thus less load on the charging system. I do however agree with you, that a larger capacity battery will last longerVery simple a higher CCA battery will need less charging, less charging means longer life. We all know the more a battery is charged the shorter the life is example cell phone. Over charge it and it'll get weaker by the day until it won't hold a charge at all. JR 1- Fully agree on that 2- Not quite. Volts and amps work together. If voltage drops, amps will change (according to these 2 electrical formula's): P=U*I and U=I*R The resistance of the starter coils remain a constant, so basically, I changes with U, or U changes I. You mention it further in your post. 5- I know one can start a scooter with no battery, but that still doesn't negate that a larger battery can provide, but also draw more energy. 6- In most cases a larger battery will release just the same amount of energy as a smaller one, when a starter would start the engine. But in most cases a battery does not get empty from starting a scooter, but from not being used, or having a small item like an alarm draw a constant power. So when I mentioned a large battery being empty, I didn't mean because of starting, because even a 6A battery should have sufficient charge to start a scooter for several minutes (if not hours); but i mean, because it's gotten empty (regardless of how).
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Post by edfr on Feb 14, 2013 14:36:25 GMT -5
This is not difficult to understand. The PHYSICAL size of a battery does not mean anything, it is the rated amps and the CCA a battery is capable of producing.
Take a LOW CCA AMP rated battery big or small in size stick it on a scoot that is hard to start DUE to Being Cold out or high compression or whatever and it will CRANK over a few times and that is ALL she wrote. Stick in a HIGHER CCA AMP rated battery big or small in size and do the same and it will CRANK strong for a longer period of time.
Starters draw a lot of juice from the battery in a short period of time if whatever they are trying to turn has a lot of resistance. What they really should do is make them brushless motors but that cost more. Lefty
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Post by JR on Feb 14, 2013 15:36:21 GMT -5
But in most cases a battery does not get empty from starting a scooter, but from not being used, or having a small item like an alarm draw a constant power.The starter on a scooter will empty the battery quicker than anything on the scooter. refer to the chart a battery below how much is considered discharged? When it reaches the 25% level the scooter engine better have started because It's very close to all she wrote. I started my wife's 250 this morning, 42F when I did, battery is a little low because we haven't rode in over 2 months. It started after a bit and it's got a 14AH 210CCA battery that's over 3 years old. Tried to start my son's 150 Bali, it's got a 9AH 140CCA battery that I bought 2 years ago, it would not start after only maybe at the most 1 minute of cranking, battery was gone. I ordered a new battery for it about 2 hours ago, same battery as on the 250, be here by Monday, I can assure you it will start then! ;D Don't need to say more. JR
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Post by wutzthedeal on Feb 14, 2013 16:43:55 GMT -5
To the OP: my 6AH battery will turn the engine over at least 250 times before dying, or for about 2 minutes of trying to start it with no breaks (constant cranking). My 3AH battery turned it over about 25 times before dying. That is all.
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