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Post by joefl28 on Aug 13, 2012 19:53:51 GMT -5
Hey,I got some gas today,93 as usual,I filled it up and went home,I bought some of that mystery marvel stuff,I put two capfuls in,Later on I went out to the store again and it runs great gets right up there acceleration wise.I get to a stop sign and the darn thing shuts off!It doesnt sputter or anythingg,just quitely shuts off,wierdest thing,I road it around for about 35 minutes on local backroads thinking I should burn some fuel up and it was still doing it,just sort of shutting off when i slowed to a stop.Did the Mystery oil stuff cause this?The scooter is a 2002 yamaha vino 50cc,Rubns great till I slow it down to a stop sign then I have to restart it,kinda annoying.What should I do?Any ideas?I am real new to this so please bare with my ignorance lol
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Post by wile on Aug 13, 2012 20:02:05 GMT -5
adjust your valves .003 inchs both valves.
Wile
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Post by millsc on Aug 13, 2012 20:06:18 GMT -5
93 octane and mystery marvel too much use 91 octane drain gas and use 91 or 93 without additives or 91 alone would be best
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Post by joefl28 on Aug 13, 2012 20:07:49 GMT -5
Wile,thanks for the response,Is adjusting the valves something that should be done when using additives like the mystery oil?
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Post by joefl28 on Aug 13, 2012 20:14:09 GMT -5
Thanks Millsc,I have heard from several people to use 93 octane,I agree for sure that I don't need the mystery oil with that kind of gas,I take it that adjusting the valves should keep it idling when I stop?
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Post by millsc on Aug 13, 2012 20:14:54 GMT -5
Sometimes things are simple scoot ran fine before i put mystery oil and now it dies get the oil out of the tank
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Post by carasdad on Aug 13, 2012 21:58:01 GMT -5
I run 87 octane in all our scoots...have for years. All have BBK's and other hypo stuff...never had a hitch or glitch. Also form the inside of the gas pump motor...out to the nozzle...holds 1/2 gallon of gas. So if the guy before you bought 87..and you buy a gallon of 91.....do the math....you are are only getting a tank of 89 octane. As for the valves...I thought 2002 Vino was a 2 stroke. If you wanna use a fuel additive..use Sea Foam....or Chemtool...they will keep your carb sparkling clean inside and not affect how your engine runs. The Marvel Mystery oil may have caused a problem.. As a Kid we used it in all our farm equipment...and occasionally ran into carb probs. John Deere dealer told us to use it in the engine crankcase only as it only breaks the varnish and gum from the carb loose...and the particles plugged up our carb jets because it does not dissolve them. Chemtool and some expensive John Deere additive(can't remember the name)they dissolve the gum and varnish so it does not plug the jets. If it stalls when you stop...I am willing to bet your pilot jet(low speed jet) is plugged with residue. The orifice in the pilot jet (idle jet) is so small..something the diameter of a human hair can plug it. I would check that...but do know the orifice is so small..you will be hard pressed to find anything fine enough to pass through it....even a sewing needle is too big. Therefore at my shop...in my toolbox I keep a 1 foot long piece of .009 guitar string that I saved when I changed strings(high E string if you have friends that play guitar..get a piece from them)... it is a miracle tool for pilot(idle) jets...I have unclogged many pilot jets for customers with it... Sounds like you are possibly just in need of a good carb cleaning....  Again...the 2002 Vino is a 2stroke is it not? Worked on many of them...never saw a 4 stroke version until the 2006 models.... |
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Post by joefl28 on Aug 13, 2012 22:12:22 GMT -5
Yes its a 2 stroke,if it is clogged up a bit do you think something like seafoam would unclog it?
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Post by joefl28 on Aug 13, 2012 22:18:36 GMT -5
I did a quick search on it,and found someone had used it on an atv to unclog their idle jet,I hope it will work,the scooter runs fine,sounds good,just shuts off when it idles to long
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Post by carasdad on Aug 13, 2012 22:40:25 GMT -5
Yes its a 2 stroke,if it is clogged up a bit do you think something like seafoam would unclog it? Sea Foam will keep the carb super clean as will Chemtool....but drain the old gas first...add the Sea Foam or Chemtool to the new gas....but most likely...you are going to need to manually unplug the jet with wire. I know of a few folks that got lucky and soaked the jets in Sea Foam or Chemtool over night...then blew air through them and it cleaned them out. I knew the 02 Vino was a 2 stroke....and peppy fast lil critters too!!!... Then in 2006 they went to 4 stroke and really restricted them with heavy roller weights and a washer in the CVT....to keep them at 30 mph...anything to keep us from having fun huh?... The 02 through 05 2 stroke Vino's I have worked one...easily hit 40 mph...what about yours?... |
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Post by joefl28 on Aug 13, 2012 22:57:18 GMT -5
Yeah mine hits 40,I love this scoot,im gonna lose sleep over this lol...I am new to all this.my first bike of any kind.Do you think I can handle the carb cleaning if I had to?I dont have any issues getting it up to speed
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Post by skuttadawg on Aug 14, 2012 1:19:42 GMT -5
Seafoam is great ! Wally World has it cheaper than auto part stores . I put a capfull or so every other fill up . Today I topped off my engine oil with it . You only need a small amount of it .
Marvel Mystery Oil is great for sticking hydraulic lifters in cars and burns off carbon build up in the head and piston .
How much of it did you put in ? In the gas or oil tank ?
It stalls just before stopping or when you come to a stop ? Slowly stalls or dies fast ? Run ok other than when stopping ? I would check the vacuum lines for leaks , cracks or collapsed tubing . A bad fuel pecock can make a scooter not run right .
Since 2ts burn oil is common to need to remove the carb , then the bowl to clean the jets and venturi by hand instead of just spraying carb cleaner through the airbox . I have a rear mounted carb so I can get to it without removing any body panels . I loosen the intake and turn it so I can remove the bowl and not have to mess with the throttle cable . I have had 4 times to where it would not start or fizzle after start only to die . I loosened up the drain plug on the bottom of the bowl and put a jug underneath the catch the fuel from the drain hose . If you remove the drain screw , fuel will come out of the hole . I bought a telescoping and flexible screwdriver since it was hard to access with the airbox and inner fender on . I now use a Uni airfilter with a huge 90 mainjet and wow it has more torque .
I would replace the fuel filter since most are only 3 dollars and most likely needs replacing anyways . Check ,clean and replace if necessary the airfilter . I learned about NGK irdiums and synthetic 2T oil from a guy I met in the woods while trail riding my Honda CR125 . He was right , the iridium does fire bettter , so it starts up instantly , runs much better and not as likely to foul out from oil deposits . I use a NGK BR8HIX sparkplug . You should remove and clean your sparkplug for now since I did on my Honda every 2 months with carb cleaner spray and wiped it off . Underneath the intake manifold , the hose between the carb and engine , there is reed valves , they will crack over time and need replacing so will the Teflon intake as it dries out and rots . Full synthetic 2T like BelRay or Motul 710 , which I switched to , does not smoke no where as much as weedeater grade oil , doesnt leave as much deposits on the sparkplug and runs better . Never use weedeater oil .
2Ts are more sensative to changes like if the airbox gets a crack or any change in exhaust . I had a rock knock a hole in my pipe and dang it killed the mid-range and top end . Most replace the fuel and vacuum lines with automotive fuel line that any autopart store sells . Measure the diameter as most are 3/16 or 1/4 . Replace 1 at a time to avoid confusion . Use a string to see how long the hoses are and then measure it with a tape measure or yard stick . Its much easier than trying to measure the hoses with them installed .
I only use premium gas , when I did the PDI for all of my scooters from a local dealer , they have a paper you sign telling customers to only use premium and never use E85 . Mine has a label that says use 91 or better . I bought a TaoTao ATMa 50 , the 2nd day of owning it I put in 87 by mistake since I was distracted at the gas station , 1 mile later while running it harder than I should have since new , poof the piston cracked . What a POS ! I used to have a small shop with my father and we bought and sold mopeds and motorcycles for fun and profit and NEVER once had a piston crack . I was a teen then I rode my toys like I stole them just like any wild teen would have . After having it rebuilt 5 or 6 weeks later , the piston exploded into pieces . I had to run to my shrink before I had a meltdown and wound up on CNN . I replaced the POS piston with an Air Sal 50mm and never had a problem . I sold it and the 2nd owner resold it and I see the 3rd owner going the road on it at times .
How many miles are on the engine ? Do a compression test . Harbor Freight has a tester with gauge for 20 dollars and is a handy tool . Rings wear out , only cost around 10 dollars and easy to replace since no timing chain or valves to adjust like a 4T . Start it up and spray starting fluid on the hoses and intake if it stalls you know you have a vacuum leak . Only try this once as the either will break down the rubber .
Have you looked at the CVT ? If its sticking instead of slacking the belt tension when you slow down that can also contribute to a stall . Belts wear out and can have rubber dust build up inside the CVT so remove the cover and have a look to eliminate it .
Haynes makes a great scooter repair book . I bought the Chinese edition from Amazon for 24 with free shipping , it applies to scooters from other countries too . Its great to have a book to refer too and plenty of .pdfs online . I buy one for every vehicle I buy to have info like capacities and electrical diagrams etc .
Hows the rear brake shoes ? When worn and the cable tension nut is tight , along with worn out return springs they can stick and cause drag .
You did good buy getting a Yamaha since its a great brand , and best of all getting a 2T scooter , IMO they are much better , easier to work on and go faster . I hated my 4T 50 and have a blast on my 2T Jonway Magnum.
Try cleaning the airfilter and carb then replace the sparkplug and fuel filter and see how it does . Most of the time its only simple maintenance is needed instead of repai
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Post by joefl28 on Aug 14, 2012 9:39:24 GMT -5
Hey,I bought this scooter with around 621 miles on it,its a 2002 go figure,never was used much,I put a little in the oil and a little in the oil tank.Its weird because as I slow down at a stop sign it just shuts off,quite silently,I mean being as its light and all in weight you dont really notice immediately.I drove it all around this morning having to be careful at stop signs and avoiding any lights.Taking the carb off,thats not like taking the whole engine apart is it lol?Im not lazy or anything but at the same time I dont want to cause any more problems I like this scooter to much.The brakes on it seem great,sucker stops quick,I really dont think its been used much to be honest,Ihave not looked at the cvt on it no,Im the biggest noob here lol!A friend of mine at work is hopefully coming over and he is going to help me.I work right up the stree might walk today as I really dont want to hurt my scoot and frankly its annoying having to stop and go lol
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Post by viral on Aug 14, 2012 9:50:22 GMT -5
Here is an idea. Don't use fuel additives. They're all snake oil bullsh!t. I run 91-93 octane whatever I can get at the pump, have never needed or wanted to use fuel additives. Engines aren't something you should just dump a bunch of chemicals into and hope for the best, they are meant to burn gas (in the case of a 2stroke, gas and oil), nothing else.
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Post by carasdad on Aug 14, 2012 10:00:31 GMT -5
Seafoam is great ! Wally World has it cheaper than auto part stores . I put a capfull or so every other fill up . Today I topped off my engine oil with it . You only need a small amount of it . Marvel Mystery Oil is great for sticking hydraulic lifters in cars and burns off carbon build up in the head and piston . How much of it did you put in ? In the gas or oil tank ? It stalls just before stopping or when you come to a stop ? Slowly stalls or dies fast ? Run ok other than when stopping ? I would check the vacuum lines for leaks , cracks or collapsed tubing . A bad fuel pecock can make a scooter not run right . Since 2ts burn oil is common to need to remove the carb , then the bowl to clean the jets and venturi by hand instead of just spraying carb cleaner through the airbox . I have a rear mounted carb so I can get to it without removing any body panels . I loosen the intake and turn it so I can remove the bowl and not have to mess with the throttle cable . I have had 4 times to where it would not start or fizzle after start only to die . I loosened up the drain plug on the bottom of the bowl and put a jug underneath the catch the fuel from the drain hose . If you remove the drain screw , fuel will come out of the hole . I bought a telescoping and flexible screwdriver since it was hard to access with the airbox and inner fender on . I now use a Uni airfilter with a huge 90 mainjet and wow it has more torque . I would replace the fuel filter since most are only 3 dollars and most likely needs replacing anyways . Check ,clean and replace if necessary the airfilter . I learned about NGK irdiums and synthetic 2T oil from a guy I met in the woods while trail riding my Honda CR125 . He was right , the iridium does fire bettter , so it starts up instantly , runs much better and not as likely to foul out from oil deposits . I use a NGK BR8HIX sparkplug . You should remove and clean your sparkplug for now since I did on my Honda every 2 months with carb cleaner spray and wiped it off . Underneath the intake manifold , the hose between the carb and engine , there is reed valves , they will crack over time and need replacing so will the Teflon intake as it dries out and rots . Full synthetic 2T like BelRay or Motul 710 , which I switched to , does not smoke no where as much as weedeater grade oil , doesnt leave as much deposits on the sparkplug and runs better . Never use weedeater oil . 2Ts are more sensative to changes like if the airbox gets a crack or any change in exhaust . I had a rock knock a hole in my pipe and dang it killed the mid-range and top end . Most replace the fuel and vacuum lines with automotive fuel line that any autopart store sells . Measure the diameter as most are 3/16 or 1/4 . Replace 1 at a time to avoid confusion . Use a string to see how long the hoses are and then measure it with a tape measure or yard stick . Its much easier than trying to measure the hoses with them installed . I only use premium gas , when I did the PDI for all of my scooters from a local dealer , they have a paper you sign telling customers to only use premium and never use E85 . Mine has a label that says use 91 or better . I bought a TaoTao ATMa 50 , the 2nd day of owning it I put in 87 by mistake since I was distracted at the gas station , 1 mile later while running it harder than I should have since new , poof the piston cracked . What a POS ! I used to have a small shop with my father and we bought and sold mopeds and motorcycles for fun and profit and NEVER once had a piston crack . I was a teen then I rode my toys like I stole them just like any wild teen would have . After having it rebuilt 5 or 6 weeks later , the piston exploded into pieces . I had to run to my shrink before I had a meltdown and wound up on CNN . I replaced the POS piston with an Air Sal 50mm and never had a problem . I sold it and the 2nd owner resold it and I see the 3rd owner going the road on it at times . How many miles are on the engine ? Do a compression test . Harbor Freight has a tester with gauge for 20 dollars and is a handy tool . Rings wear out , only cost around 10 dollars and easy to replace since no timing chain or valves to adjust like a 4T . Start it up and spray starting fluid on the hoses and intake if it stalls you know you have a vacuum leak . Only try this once as the either will break down the rubber . Have you looked at the CVT ? If its sticking instead of slacking the belt tension when you slow down that can also contribute to a stall . Belts wear out and can have rubber dust build up inside the CVT so remove the cover and have a look to eliminate it . Haynes makes a great scooter repair book . I bought the Chinese edition from Amazon for 24 with free shipping , it applies to scooters from other countries too . Its great to have a book to refer too and plenty of .pdfs online . I buy one for every vehicle I buy to have info like capacities and electrical diagrams etc . Hows the rear brake shoes ? When worn and the cable tension nut is tight , along with worn out return springs they can stick and cause drag . You did good buy getting a Yamaha since its a great brand , and best of all getting a 2T scooter , IMO they are much better , easier to work on and go faster . I hated my 4T 50 and have a blast on my 2T Jonway Magnum. Try cleaning the airfilter and carb then replace the sparkplug and fuel filter and see how it does . Most of the time its only simple maintenance is needed instead of repai @ joefl28..yes you can do it.. @ skuttadawg...that is how I clean the jets...just loosen carb clamps and rotate it upside down..super simple that way. Iridium plug does not give me any more power on my 2 stroke...but it does not foul like the cheapie Torch plug the scoots come with. The iridium plug gives a better start on cold frosty mornings also. Compression test is a good idea...low compression also = low vacuum. 24 bux for a Haynes manual is one hell of a deal..paid 39 for mine. @ joefl28..I would HIGHLY suggest you invest in the Haynes manual....read it and you will become a scooter repair super hero...  |
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Post by joefl28 on Aug 14, 2012 10:10:42 GMT -5
viral,Im starting to feel that way myself man,Got the scooter fever bad,also have the leap before i look syndrome lol,I find myself looking at all the bottles of stuff on the shelf its aweful lol,@carrasdad,I just ordered the book last night off amazon and cant wait to get it!I have the manual in pdf form on my computer and tablet and plan to look it over as far as the carb,perhaps after work today I will "Slowly"tear into it
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Post by acntvman on Aug 14, 2012 10:16:17 GMT -5
adjust your valves .003 inchs both valves. Wile I 2nd this, if you choose not to do this. Then the problem is the rider not the scooter. Cleaning the carb is a good idea, however if your valves are tight you will never get the carb correct. Its okey building a house without a foundoundation . John |
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Post by joefl28 on Aug 14, 2012 10:18:50 GMT -5
So adjusting the valves is somethign that has to be done on all scooters eventually?
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Post by viral on Aug 14, 2012 10:22:31 GMT -5
viral,Im starting to feel that way myself man,Got the scooter fever bad,also have the leap before i look syndrome lol,I find myself looking at all the bottles of stuff on the shelf its aweful lol,@carrasdad,I just ordered the book last night off amazon and cant wait to get it!I have the manual in pdf form on my computer and tablet and plan to look it over as far as the carb,perhaps after work today I will "Slowly"tear into it I will say there are some that do have a genuine purpose but 99% of those "drop this in your tank to burn cleaner and go faster!" bottles are complete bullsh!t and will do nothing but give you problems. If you really have an itch and have to add something, stick to seafoam, fuel injector/carb cleaner, or ethanol stabilizers and only use it every once in a while, not in every tank. |
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Post by carasdad on Aug 14, 2012 10:30:01 GMT -5
adjust your valves .003 inchs both valves. Wile I 2nd this, if you choose not to do this. Then the problem is the rider not the scooter. Cleaning the carb is a good idea, however if your valves are tight you will never get the carb correct. Its okey building a house without a foundoundation . John 2 strokes don't have valves...only a reed valve. joefl28...you don't have valves to adjust. |
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Post by acntvman on Aug 14, 2012 10:31:27 GMT -5
So adjusting the valves is somethign that has to be done on all scooters eventually? Think of it as breathing. Don't be scared it so easy watch the you tube videos. Watch then 1000 times if you have to. John |
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Post by carasdad on Aug 14, 2012 10:35:25 GMT -5
Here is an idea. Don't use fuel additives. They're all snake oil bullsh!t. I run 91-93 octane whatever I can get at the pump, have never needed or wanted to use fuel additives. Engines aren't something you should just dump a bunch of chemicals into and hope for the best, they are meant to burn gas (in the case of a 2stroke, gas and oil), nothing else. From the inside of the gas pump motor...out to the nozzle...holds 1/2 gallon of gas. So if the guy before you bought 87..and you buy a gallon of 91.....do the math....you are are only getting a tank of 89 octane. @ acntvman...again...it is a 2 stroke...he has no valves...don't confuse the poor kid... ;D |
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Post by acntvman on Aug 14, 2012 10:43:49 GMT -5
I 2nd this, if you choose not to do this. Then the problem is the rider not the scooter. Cleaning the carb is a good idea, however if your valves are tight you will never get the carb correct. Its okey building a house without a foundoundation . John 2 strokes don't have valves...only a reed valve. joefl28...you don't have valves to adjust. Gee I didn't see anyone talk about 2 cycle oil being mixed. Are you sure this is a 2 stroke. John |
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Post by viral on Aug 14, 2012 10:48:18 GMT -5
Here is an idea. Don't use fuel additives. They're all snake oil bullsh!t. I run 91-93 octane whatever I can get at the pump, have never needed or wanted to use fuel additives. Engines aren't something you should just dump a bunch of chemicals into and hope for the best, they are meant to burn gas (in the case of a 2stroke, gas and oil), nothing else. From the inside of the gas pump motor...out to the nozzle...holds 1/2 gallon of gas. So if the guy before you bought 87..and you buy a gallon of 91.....do the math....you are are only getting a tank of 89 octane. @ acntvman...again...it is a 2 stroke...he has no valves...don't confuse the poor kid... ;D Unless you fill at pumps that have separate hoses for each fuel grade. |
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Post by carasdad on Aug 14, 2012 10:55:59 GMT -5
2 strokes don't have valves...only a reed valve. joefl28...you don't have valves to adjust. Gee I didn't see anyone talk about 2 cycle oil being mixed. Are you sure this is a 2 stroke. John Yes...he stated it was 2 stroke...and all '02 Vino's are 2 strokes. @ Viral good point...but around here..we do not have any dedicated high octane pumps...which gas station did you find one at?... around here every station is a 3 in 1 pump system...BP...Speedway...Shell....Marathon and no name mom 'n pop gas stations... |
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Post by viral on Aug 14, 2012 10:59:59 GMT -5
Gee I didn't see anyone talk about 2 cycle oil being mixed. Are you sure this is a 2 stroke. John Yes...he stated it was 2 stroke...and all '02 Vino's are 2 strokes. @ Viral good point...but around here..we do not have any dedicated high octane pumps...which gas station did you find one at?... around here every station is a 3 in 1 pump system...BP...Speedway...Shell....Marathon and no name mom 'n pop gas stations... I try my best to fill up at Exxon or Sunoco as they are all separate hoses where I live, and they have the best prices. Not to say I've never filled up at Shell in a pinch, but all the Shells around have a common hose for all grades so I try not to whenever possible. |
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Post by carasdad on Aug 14, 2012 11:13:20 GMT -5
Yes...he stated it was 2 stroke...and all '02 Vino's are 2 strokes. @ Viral good point...but around here..we do not have any dedicated high octane pumps...which gas station did you find one at?... around here every station is a 3 in 1 pump system...BP...Speedway...Shell....Marathon and no name mom 'n pop gas stations... I try my best to fill up at Exxon or Sunoco as they are all separate hoses where I live, and they have the best prices. Not to say I've never filled up at Shell in a pinch, but all the Shells around have a common hose for all grades so I try not to whenever possible. We have a Race Track down the road from us..they sell fuel..a local boys dad races there...he took a gallon of Torco 114 octane race fuel from his dad and filled his scoot so he could "Go like hell" he said...talk about trouble...when he finally got it started and ran it...it sounded like 20 marbles in a coffee can...we had him drain it....then his dad thunked his gourd..lil dip stick anyway...lmao...  |
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Post by viral on Aug 14, 2012 11:21:48 GMT -5
Hahahaha oh god reminds me of that time my buddy tried to put a whole bottle of 108 octane booster in his scoot. Needless to say it didn't turn out so well  One alternative you can try since you don't have pumps with separate hoses is just to wait around till someone fills on premium then slide in right behind them and fill up ;D In my area there are a lot of rich f#$ks with beamers and benz's so it wouldn't take long hehehe |
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Post by joefl28 on Aug 14, 2012 15:12:35 GMT -5
its defenitly a 2 stroke but its supposed to mix it automatically,I believe they call it injected.
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Post by viral on Aug 14, 2012 15:16:37 GMT -5
its defenitly a 2 stroke but its supposed to mix it automatically,I believe they call it injected. Oh wow so you have a separate tank you fill with 2-stroke oil instead of mixing it in your gas tank? |
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Again...the 2002 Vino is a 2stroke is it not? Worked on many of them...never saw a 4 stroke version until the 2006 models....
