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Post by daves06r4i on Aug 6, 2012 9:33:23 GMT -5
Hello everyone...
I purchased my first scooter two weeks ago. A 2006 Vento Phantom R4i with 1202 miles on it off a buddy at work for $250. When I test drove it it seemed to run perfectly... so I insured/registered it last week and rode it to work on Thursday.
My ride to work is about 75 miles round trip... mix of 25/30/45/55 zones. I live in the Finger Lakes area in NY... so it's hilly, but not too bad I guess.
When I rode it to work it was fine for the first 30 minutes or so, then it began to act like it was running out of fuel - I could hold it WOT and power would cut, then come right back and repeat. It eventually died though about 5 miles from work. Luckily a coworker was able to pick me and the scooter up.
I went out on my lunch break to take a peek at what was going on. Fuel filter was good... fuel was in the tank... I took out the plastic cargo compartment and looked at the carb/fittings/hoses - all seemed well enough. Then I went to check out the plug... and that's when I found that the plug wire wasn't make good contact with the plug. I pushed the wire on all the way and it fired right up and ran good.
On the way home I was at WOT for about 30 minutes again... running good. I stopped to get gas and the exhaust was heated pretty good... a fair amount of heat/smoke was radiating from the muffler. I topped it off, when in the gas station for a drink, cam back out and it was hard to start/backfiring a bit. I was able to limp home at about 1/2 throttle for the last 15 miles home.
The next night I pulled the carb to clean it out (it had sat for a year before I bought it). All looked good... I still went through it though and put it back on.
Next I went to adjust the valves (really easy on these things!)... the intake was at ~0.003" and the exhaust had none at all. So I set it to 0.005". Got it back together and it took a few seconds to get fuel, but fired right up and ran really well. I took it up and down the road... ran great.
So I decided to try it again this morning. I almost got to work before it acted up. I had to pull over for a few minutes. It would fire up and idle just fine, but as soon as I gave it any throttle it would bog/die. I let it idle for a few minutes and was able to limp it the last mile to work.
The previous owner did put a different CDI in it (a yellow box with "Universal" on it???).
Do you think it's just getting too hot? or something else? Should I go to a colder plug? Next up in jet size? Something else?
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Post by ce on Aug 6, 2012 11:16:55 GMT -5
That scoot has sat for 6 years and only went 200 miles a year, so it could use a refitting of essential components just to improve reliability
new carb $35 vac and fuel lines $5 CDI $10 coil and plug $15 air filter $20 oil change $10
Why would you not spend some money and get it running, and then be outfitted with spares for any breakdown?
A new scoot costs a thousand dollars, and you'd still need to be equipped with spares.
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Post by Scooter Elements on Aug 6, 2012 11:22:20 GMT -5
TO me i am thinking Petcock. It could be what is causing your problems. Check to see how yours is. Also the CDI you can get a stock one on ebay for cheap. That CDI marked UNIVERSAL are usually from Partsforscooters.com is it this one? www.partsforscooters.com/169-27-Performance-CDIIf so those are good CDI's but it being an old scooter you never know the CDI could be going bad. Change it out. and yea do what CE said replace those parts.
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Post by daves06r4i on Aug 6, 2012 11:55:59 GMT -5
That scoot has sat for 6 years and only went 200 miles a year, so it could use a refitting of essential components just to improve reliability new carb $35 vac and fuel lines $5 CDI $10 coil and plug $15 air filter $20 oil change $10 Why would you not spend some money and get it running, and then be outfitted with spares for any breakdown? A new scoot costs a thousand dollars, and you'd still need to be equipped with spares. I'm not saying that I wouldn't spend some money. I don't have to carry spare parts for my truck or car... but I realize this isn't the same animal - the first I've had, so I'm just getting used to it. TO me i am thinking Petcock. It could be what is causing your problems. Check to see how yours is. Also the CDI you can get a stock one on ebay for cheap. That CDI marked UNIVERSAL are usually from Partsforscooters.com is it this one? www.partsforscooters.com/169-27-Performance-CDIIf so those are good CDI's but it being an old scooter you never know the CDI could be going bad. Change it out. and yea do what CE said replace those parts. That looks to be the exact one. Does the petcock have an on/off problem when they start to go? When I had checked the fuel filter... I disconnected the fuel supply line and cranked it over and a solid stream of fuel came out in a hurry.
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Post by Scooter Elements on Aug 6, 2012 12:17:32 GMT -5
The petcock sometimes get clogged and at WOT can give you problems. but you say you got a solid stream of gas then idk. Try a new CDI (go for a stock one because they are cheap instead of spending money on a expensive performance one until you know if thats the issue)
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Post by teddy554 on Aug 6, 2012 12:58:53 GMT -5
what spark plug are you running and what is it gap at and do you still have the stock air box on, might need filter replaced the petcock is worked by vacuum, might want to replace all the lines just a tiny crack you cant see can cause trouble for the fuel system
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Post by daves06r4i on Aug 6, 2012 13:04:04 GMT -5
Ok... I just took it out for a bit on my lunch break. It was still having the same type of problem even after sitting for almost 7 hours. I noticed that if I pumped the throttle a few times that it would come back for a few seconds. I then looked over the plug wire.... How tight should it be? It rocks pretty easy while on the plug. I wedged the wire to put some tension on it... Took it out again and it seemed to do better. Maybe pumping the throttle wiggled the wire and I get good contact for a moment??? I'm going to order some new ignition parts today I guess...
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Post by daves06r4i on Aug 6, 2012 13:09:24 GMT -5
what spark plug are you running and what is it gap at and do you still have the stock air box on, might need filter replaced the petcock is worked by vacuum, might want to replace all the lines just a tiny crack you cant see can cause trouble for the fuel system I have no idea what plug it is... I assume that it's the factory plug. The stock air box is on as well. I was debating on getting ditching the stock air box for another filter.
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Post by daves06r4i on Aug 6, 2012 13:45:42 GMT -5
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Post by Scooter Elements on Aug 6, 2012 13:50:58 GMT -5
one thing remember in the description says that we do not have the Iridium Plug in stock only the regular NGK will be shipped. I need to change that picture. The stage 1 kit can work just fine for you also
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Post by daves06r4i on Aug 6, 2012 13:58:23 GMT -5
one thing remember in the description says that we do not have the Iridium Plug in stock only the regular NGK will be shipped. I need to change that picture. The stage 1 kit can work just fine for you also I'd guess that a regular plug is just fine... I run Autolite 106's in my L67 Impala. The Stage 1 was only $4 more... so I'm running with it.
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Post by Scooter Elements on Aug 6, 2012 14:00:23 GMT -5
one thing remember in the description says that we do not have the Iridium Plug in stock only the regular NGK will be shipped. I need to change that picture. The stage 1 kit can work just fine for you also I'd guess that a regular plug is just fine... I run Autolite 106's in my L67 Impala. The Stage 1 was only $4 more... so I'm running with it. yea that kit comes with a NGK Spark Plug. I have been out of the Iridium For a long time now and the distributor that brings them here have not brought them for a while.
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Post by ce on Aug 6, 2012 14:00:55 GMT -5
That's the business, set the plug gap at .028 which is where it usually is in the box, unless that's an Irridium plug, and those you don't mess with.
If the problem persists, you'll know it's not electrical. If the airbox is still in good shape, I'd keep it, they work very efficiently and sometimes too much air can cause problems with the free flow filters.
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Post by daves06r4i on Aug 6, 2012 14:02:47 GMT -5
Looks like Paypal is the only payment option? Dang.
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Post by Scooter Elements on Aug 6, 2012 14:06:53 GMT -5
Looks like Paypal is the only payment option? Dang. Yup. Its easy and free to sign up.
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Post by daves06r4i on Aug 6, 2012 17:20:44 GMT -5
I'm wondering if the valves are out of whack again... I was cruising along at about 60 and it started back firing like crazy and died... Now my wife is on her way with the truck to rescue me.
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Post by Scooter Elements on Aug 6, 2012 19:59:45 GMT -5
Any vacuum leaks?? Check that because that is something that happens to me often. Riding along and Lose power and backfires It turns out it's a vacuum line that got loose. Or your manifold could be cracked
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Post by daves06r4i on Aug 6, 2012 20:23:03 GMT -5
Any vacuum leaks?? Check that because that is something that happens to me often. Riding along and Lose power and backfires It turns out it's a vacuum line that got loose. Or your manifold could be cracked I will check for vacuum leaks tomorrow after work. I did look over the intake manifold when I cleaned the carb... It has cracks on it, but none that are visible on the inside of it. It looked to have a rubber coated aluminum elbow with rubber at the clamp end.
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Post by Origjoker on Aug 6, 2012 20:47:06 GMT -5
1st - Take off carb bowl and clean out your main jet REAL good and richen the mixture screw 1/4 turn then test
2nd - Change plug to NGK and check your oil level then test to see if problem is still there.
3rd - Change ALL fuel and vacuum lines to better quality lines and test to see if problem is still there.
4th - Change fuel filter to better one and test to see if problem is still there.
5th - Replace coil if it's still not fitting tight to plug
Running WOT a lot can actually run it out of oil and if it is running lean can cause the engine to overheat and stall out. Do everything in steps so you can identify what the actual problem was and then you will be able to more easily diagnose in the future.
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Post by daves06r4i on Aug 7, 2012 9:00:35 GMT -5
1st - Take off carb bowl and clean out your main jet REAL good and richen the mixture screw 1/4 turn then test 2nd - Change plug to NGK and check your oil level then test to see if problem is still there. 3rd - Change ALL fuel and vacuum lines to better quality lines and test to see if problem is still there. 4th - Change fuel filter to better one and test to see if problem is still there. 5th - Replace coil if it's still not fitting tight to plug Running WOT a lot can actually run it out of oil and if it is running lean can cause the engine to overheat and stall out. Do everything in steps so you can identify what the actual problem was and then you will be able to more easily diagnose in the future. I will start this process tonight. One other thing to mention... I have no idea what rpm I was reaching (no tach), but when it began backfiring and stalled out... the speedometer was at ~70-75??? My phones speedometer app had me at a max speed of 62 mph. This was going down hill. I backed off the throttle to slow for a corner, then get right back on it and it acted up about 2 seconds into WOT. It seems like every time I have a problem it's been after a higher speed jaunt. I'm not sure on the reliability of the scooter speedometer or the phone app (Ulysse Speedometer Pro on HTC EVO 4G). Is there a way to calibrate the speedometer? Are the clusters in these fairly universal? Maybe swap to a cluster with a tach? The plastic over my cluster is broken (cracked, missing a chunk, and yellow), so I was going to replace the cover, but a new cluster may be a better idea.
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Post by Origjoker on Aug 7, 2012 9:59:11 GMT -5
There is no way to calibrate them, They just suck. Your phone is probably very close though....within 1mph I would guess.
Your probably just running lean and overheating then, I would get a 110 main jet also and see if that helps.
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Post by daves06r4i on Aug 7, 2012 10:05:43 GMT -5
There is no way to calibrate them, They just suck. Your phone is probably very close though....within 1mph I would guess. Your probably just running lean and overheating then, I would get a 110 main jet also and see if that helps. When I had the carb apart last week... I did take note of the main jet size... I'm pretty sure it was a 115 - do you think someone changed it? Or did some come with that size from the factory? This looks to answer my cluster questions: scootdawg.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=talk&thread=23938&page=1
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Post by daves06r4i on Aug 7, 2012 14:55:55 GMT -5
Ok... so I ordered some parts:
Stage 2 Ignition kit: 1 x $39.99 = $39.99
NCY Performance Intake Manifolds: 1 x $34.99 = $34.99
BLUE POLYURETHANE FUEL LINE: 4 x $1.5= $6.00
This should help me get started... I should be able to get some of the other essentials locally, so I'll get them when I need them. I don't know if the intake was needed, but it seems to be a common problem... and if I got it off, then I might as well change it.
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Post by Scooter Elements on Aug 7, 2012 15:16:57 GMT -5
We got your order and it will ship out tomorrow asap! We are going to send you the Blue Intake manifold since you stated you have a stock carburetor. The other NCY intakes wont work with the stock carburetor.
Thank you Scooter Elements
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Post by daves06r4i on Aug 7, 2012 20:32:20 GMT -5
A little update... I used a spray bottle with soapy water and sprayed the intake manifold, around the carb, and all of the vacuum lines - it didn't do anything. So I'm guessing that there are no vacuum leaks. I did take it down my rd (mostly down hill) and got it up to 61... Then stopped at the end and went to take off - sputtering away I went I got it going up to speed with a little pushing and it took off pretty good. Rode good up the hill the whole way... Topping out about 40 mph. I got home and loosened the idle mixture screw a 1/4 turn. It didn't change the idle at all, but I stabbed the throttle and it didn't hesitate much... So I loosened it another 1/4 turn - still no change in idle. I took it for an 8 mile ride (wife following in the truck). It was all good untill I went from wot to no throttle to stop. When I went to take off I couldnt bring it much off idle or it would bog. I'm letting it cool at a gas station for a bit, then ill ride back home. Wish me luck...
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Post by Origjoker on Aug 7, 2012 21:01:00 GMT -5
There is no way to calibrate them, They just suck. Your phone is probably very close though....within 1mph I would guess. Your probably just running lean and overheating then, I would get a 110 main jet also and see if that helps. When I had the carb apart last week... I did take note of the main jet size... I'm pretty sure it was a 115 - do you think someone changed it? Or did some come with that size from the factory? This looks to answer my cluster questions: scootdawg.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=talk&thread=23938&page=1If it is a 115 with the stock airbox on it I would say it's probably running too rich then. Usually they ship with a 105 or 107 which is a tad lean and a 110 will help it out. 115 should really only be used if you change the filter & exhaust etc... Could be that your plug is loading up and causing problems? I would toss in a new plug and run it until the problem starts, Yank the plug and see whats going on. If it's black & sooty or wet then you know your way too rich.
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Post by daves06r4i on Aug 7, 2012 22:01:33 GMT -5
Sometimes a video really helps.... This is what it does after riding for a bit:
Is there supposed to be an add next to the YouTube window???
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Post by Origjoker on Aug 7, 2012 22:26:19 GMT -5
Sounds like it's dumping fuel when you throttle up making it bog real bad. Maybe a bad carb? Not sure how to test them though
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Post by daves06r4i on Aug 7, 2012 23:23:51 GMT -5
Just to make sure that it's not somehow related... The turn signals have started blinking in a morse code kind of way. I have an audible tone that comes on when the blinker is on too. The rate of the blinking seems to be tied to the rpms. I don't think it did this, or at least I didn't notice, before tonight. The blinkers on average blink at a fast rate as if one of the bulbs were blown, but they all work. Strange are these scooters...
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Post by daves06r4i on Aug 8, 2012 6:57:54 GMT -5
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