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Post by hailrhino on Aug 4, 2012 1:52:55 GMT -5
if my brake light switches are broken, would that also cause my electric ignition switch to stop working?
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Post by geh3333 on Aug 4, 2012 2:00:14 GMT -5
did you take the plastic off from around the handle bar area to check all of the wiring ?
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Post by hailrhino on Aug 4, 2012 2:05:01 GMT -5
no...but the last time my brake light switch broke on the left also the ignition stopped working, the shop switched my ignition starter to the right and that switch was working. so, the igintion worked on the right side. well now the brake switch on the right is broke and the ignition wont start.
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Post by geh3333 on Aug 4, 2012 2:11:27 GMT -5
i see , i would def try to get the brake light switches fixed. i'm sure you can rewire the ignition switch
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Post by hailrhino on Aug 4, 2012 2:13:41 GMT -5
thanks my friend...so i guess its safe to say that when the brake light switches go, at the same time the ignition switch goes as well...very frustrating...i have been kick starting this thing and its hell! my foot is killing me!
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Post by geh3333 on Aug 4, 2012 2:18:53 GMT -5
yeh the brakes have to be held in to activate the ignition switch , more then likely if you take the wire that goes to the brake and ground it , that should do it. all the brake prob does is grounds the ign switch so that it works
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Post by gatekeeper on Aug 4, 2012 4:42:10 GMT -5
Don't ground out any wires. If you do ground the hot wire you'll blow a fuse.
Replace the brake light switches. When the brake light comes on it also sends power to the start button. Pushing that button completes the circuit to the solenoid, allowing the starter to spin.
Yes you can wire around everything but just replace the switches. It's safer.
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Post by geh3333 on Aug 4, 2012 4:56:02 GMT -5
yes but this could easily be tested , the brake light does infact send the switch power and like many electric switches this may be caused by just grounding . just test before doing it. the power may be ran to the switch already and the circuit may be completed by the switch connecting the ground . if its not ran that way you can do it yourself . but yes the best thing to do is fix the brake lights . if the power comes from the brake then unhooking this wire and grounding it will not blow anything , because the wire is coming from the switch not the power source , of course if it is the power line coming from the brake this will not work , but it will not blow anything.
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Post by gatekeeper on Aug 4, 2012 7:02:31 GMT -5
Possibly a difference in terms.
You can test the start button by "jumping" (making contact between) the brake switch wires then pressing the start button with the key on.
If you "ground" a hot wire without running it through a proper load it will blow a fuse.
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Post by Blueboy5000 on Aug 4, 2012 7:33:56 GMT -5
Yes some bikes rely solely on the left switch for starting. I learned this the hard way on my Baccio just last nigh
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Post by Blueboy5000 on Aug 4, 2012 7:34:46 GMT -5
I always keep spare switches around since they only cost like 4 bucks. Now I plan to keep one in the Road Tools.
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Post by dyoung1167 on Aug 4, 2012 10:57:24 GMT -5
if your comfortable working with tiny stuff, they are quite simple and easy opened up to fix. i rebuilt mine twice. once was the plunger when the metal of the switch (inside) wore into the end of it so that it and would no longer extend enough to release the switch leaving it on all the time. some patience and j-b weld i was able to reform it and actually make more durable. another time (the first fix) the stationary side somehow bent over time enough that it would not make contact. that was the easy one.
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Post by dyoung1167 on Aug 4, 2012 10:59:33 GMT -5
that said, it would definitely be easier and as mentioned quite cheap to replace if you can wait for one.
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Post by geh3333 on Aug 4, 2012 11:01:26 GMT -5
yes but this could easily be tested , the brake light does infact send the switch power and like many electric switches this may be caused by just grounding . just test before doing it. the power may be ran to the switch already and the circuit may be completed by the switch connecting the ground . if its not ran that way you can do it yourself . but yes the best thing to do is fix the brake lights . if the power comes from the brake then unhooking this wire and grounding it will not blow anything , because the wire is coming from the switch not the power source , of course if it is the power line coming from the brake this will not work , but it will not blow anything. i guess i should rephrase some of this . if the power is coming from the brake and you unhook the power wire running from the brake to the switch this means all you have is the power line coming from the switch which is not hot because the ignition switch no longer has its power source , so if you accidentally ground this wire it will do nothing because there is no power involved , it would be like hooking a switch up and grounding both ends with no power source hooked up , it will not work of course. but you can rewire it to work without the brake levers. gatekeeper is right if you ground a hot wire it will blow a fuse . |
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Post by hailrhino on Aug 4, 2012 11:42:45 GMT -5
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Post by adrian33773 on Aug 6, 2012 0:28:13 GMT -5
I might be having a similar problem. I have to depress the brake before pushing the starter switch. It doesn't matter which brake I depress, front or rear and it will enable the starter switch. All of a sudden I got up one morning to go to work. Now when I depress either brake the green light on the instrument panel shuts off, the brake lights don't work and the starter switch doesn't work. Looks like a dead battery. Also the volt meter on the instrument panel says 0, usually says 13. Not even a click. Now if I put a screwdriver on the starter relay, it starts right up. Headlights are bright, blinkers don't work. The blinker lights come on but they don't blink. The horn sounds weak. With engine running the brake light comes on real slow. Also with engine running the voltmeter reads 14. When I depress the brakes the voltmeter drops to 4. Any ideas? I tested the battery and it is fully charged. I removed all the plastic and couldn't find any burned or shorted wires anywhere.
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Post by gatekeeper on Aug 6, 2012 3:30:47 GMT -5
Sounds like a bad/weak frame ground somewhere effecting your DC powered circuits.
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Post by dyoung1167 on Aug 6, 2012 7:13:35 GMT -5
I might be having a similar problem. I have to depress the brake before pushing the starter switch. It doesn't matter which brake I depress, front or rear and it will enable the starter switch. All of a sudden I got up one morning to go to work. Now when I depress either brake the green light on the instrument panel shuts off, the brake lights don't work and the starter switch doesn't work. Looks like a dead battery. Also the volt meter on the instrument panel says 0, usually says 13. Not even a click. Now if I put a screwdriver on the starter relay, it starts right up. Headlights are bright, blinkers don't work. The blinker lights come on but they don't blink. The horn sounds weak. With engine running the brake light comes on real slow. Also with engine running the voltmeter reads 14. When I depress the brakes the voltmeter drops to 4. Any ideas? I tested the battery and it is fully charged. I removed all the plastic and couldn't find any burned or shorted wires anywhere. his switch isn't working, you have a ground after the switch, between it and the brake light somewhere in the harness. check the front, the wires move a lot around the steering. |
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Post by adrian33773 on Aug 6, 2012 21:52:00 GMT -5
I was thinking it might be a ground problem so I ran a wire direct from batterry and tied into a black wire that comes out of the ignition switch, nothing happened. Then I hooked it to another black wire that runs to the flasher unit and no change. Then I tried it to another black wire and nothing. With ignition switch on, I get a 4 volt reading between all the black wires I could find and the frame. Assuming the black wires are connected to ground, I should get a reading of 0 between them and the frame? With the ignition switch off I did an ohm test and got 0 between all the black wires and the ground which should be good.
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Post by gatekeeper on Aug 6, 2012 22:07:20 GMT -5
With the possible exception of the primary ground wire coming off of the battery, ground wires in the scooter wiring harnesses are green. Those black wires you are referring to are hot wires.
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Post by adrian33773 on Aug 6, 2012 23:51:02 GMT -5
The schematic shows the green being grounded at the magneto. The black wires all run to the frame and battery according to my schematic. Everything that runs off the magneto (A/C) seems to be working properly. It's all the other DC items that aren't working properly. And if the black is a hot wire I'm only reading 4 volts, not 12.
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Post by wile on Aug 6, 2012 23:54:39 GMT -5
Wait a minute, There is NO NEED to switch anything if one of your brake switchs goes out. You can squeeze EITHER BRAKE and it will SEND the juice to the SOLENOID(RELAY) and activate the Starter.
If say the left switch doesn't work then you can squeeze the right brake to activate the Solenoid(relay) As long as your brake lights come on then you know it is sending juice down the wires to the Solenoid and brake lights.
Wile
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Post by adrian33773 on Aug 6, 2012 23:58:40 GMT -5
Also, as I mentioned earlier, when I do a resistance test with ignition switch off, there is 0 ohms (no resistance) between all the black wires and the frame. This would mean the black wire is well grounded to the frame. I haven't checked the green wires. But it seems like the green is for AC powered items and the black is for DC powered items. If this is true I should be getting no voltage reading between black and the frame with the key turned on.
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Post by wile on Aug 7, 2012 0:00:49 GMT -5
Green wires are usually Ground on the scoots.
Have you checked the Fuse on the red wire from the battery going to the Switch.
Wile
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Post by adrian33773 on Aug 7, 2012 0:07:54 GMT -5
When I depress either brake switch everything goes dead. So I'm thinking there's a short somewhere. And it would have to be after where the 2 brake wires meet because both brake switches cause everything to go dead. I don't know where the two brake wires meet, I would have to cut open the wiring harness. Maybe I should just strip the whole scooter down to the frame and replace the entire wiring harness. It's 7 years old with 20,000 miles. I can't see the wiring from both brake switches shorting out at the same time.
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Post by adrian33773 on Aug 7, 2012 0:13:12 GMT -5
The red wire at the key switch and at the rectifier/voltage regulator read 12 volts, fuse is good. The red wire at the rectifier reads 14.5 volts with engine running.
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Post by adrian33773 on Aug 7, 2012 0:22:42 GMT -5
I'll check again tomorrow in daylight. I'm thinking maybe when you depress the brake on either side it sends power to one of the wires that go to the starter relay. The other wire of the starter relay should go to ground to complete the circuit? I already checked all the wiring and didn't see anything burning up. Maybe that hot wire from the brakes to the relay is shorting out on the frame somewhere? Like I said, when I short the relay with a screwdriver the scooter starts right up.
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Post by wile on Aug 7, 2012 0:26:35 GMT -5
Check the wires by your brake light sockets they are known to comes loose and or pull out and maybe grounding out.
Wile
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Post by adrian33773 on Aug 7, 2012 1:07:13 GMT -5
Yes, I'll check the brake wires back there too. I'm thinking, being that I was an electrician at one time, I can probably rewire each item one at at time and just throw out the wiring harness when I'm done. I'll start by running a direct circuit from the battery through the the start switch and then to starter relay. Throw out the wire from the brake switches all together, that's just a useless safety feature anyway. There used to be a switch on the side kick stand that wouldn't let you start with kickstand down. That quit working and nobody knew what the problem was. That was like 5 years ago and none of the scooter stores I went to knew why it wouldn't start. A customer was standing behind me and told me about the kickstand switch. The owner of the scooter store didn't know there was such a thing. I cut the wires and twisted them together and it still wouldn't start. Then with the wires separated and not touching anything the scooter started right up. So that switch was just a kill switch.
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Post by adrian33773 on Aug 12, 2012 5:07:10 GMT -5
I haven't had time to work on it all week, but I'm thinking it's just a bad ignition switch. The voltage gauge has been gradually dropping all week. Now it says 0 when I turn on the switch and the green light doesn't come on at all. The scooter still starts right up when I short the solenoid relay. I have to take it all apart again to get under the hood and then I'll connect the red and black wires (the ones going to the switch). If the voltage gauge goes back to 12 volts, the green light comes on, the brake lights come on, the starter switch works, then I will know it was the ignition switch gone bad.
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