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Post by ScootForFun on May 22, 2012 8:43:30 GMT -5
No, that's not a typo. The Linhai 400 appears to be in the states, but you just don't hear that much about them. Here is a picture: www.heluvascooter.com/Linhai_Scooters.htmlThat's from a Linahi dealer in the Tampa Bay area in FL, and you can see the specs on that page, too. Just wondering if anyone on Scootdawg might have one, and if so, then please let us know how it's doing! How does it compare to the 300? At 352 cc, why in the world would Linhai call it a 400? It should have been called a 350, and then people would have had a nice, uncharacteristic, pleasant surprise to find out that the Linahi 350 was actually a 352cc!  Anyway, seeing as the 260/300's have been getting some good reviews, it would be nice to know how the "400" is fairing. Is that a 14 AH battery I see in the specs? If so, that is substantially more than the typical 7,8,and 9 AH batteries you find on scooters. Perhaps there is an upgraded charging system that can handle more accessories? Who knows ANYTHING about this thing? Fill us in! At $5K for that little beast, how could you justify that purchase over, say, a lightly used Majesty 400 or Burgman 400? Oh, I see, because you'd be the only person in the US that has one?  Well at least it has EFI: www.scootertronics.com/liae40efi.html |
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Post by ScootForFun on May 22, 2012 9:33:12 GMT -5
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Post by jwalz1 on May 22, 2012 9:59:18 GMT -5
Nothing against Linhai, but I paid less for my Kymco Downtown 300i, brand new. If they were the same money, I'd still rather have the Kymco. I would almost bet the Kymco engine at 300cc puts out the same or more power than this 350.
Holy crap, I just saw Scootertronics has it listed at 22 hp, the Downtown makes 29hp. A lightly used Kymco Xciting 250 can be had for $2500 with the same weight and horsepower as the Linhai 400.
This bike needs to be about $3500 to be priced right IMHO.
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Post by rockynv on May 22, 2012 11:58:50 GMT -5
About the same hp as a Aprilia Sport City 250 and thousands more. You can still get a new Aprilia Scarabeo 500cc with a two year full service warranty for about the same money. Sorry but I do not see the value.
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Post by ScootForFun on May 22, 2012 13:04:52 GMT -5
Yeah, have to pretty much agree this thing is overpriced, at the very least. And starting to wonder if they didn't just over bore the 252 cc stock block out even further (apparently that's all the 275 is- just an overbored 252cc) and get a little more juice out of it. Or, if it's a complete new design, including the EFI? I can't find even a single youtube video on the St. Moritz 400. And it's only 27 pounds heavier than the 300, weighing in at 399 lbs instead of 372 lbs for the 300. Funny, "St. Moritz" means "On top of the world." Reliability wise though, after owning this 300 for almost two years, personally I'd rather have that 400 than just about ANY other Chinese made bike. And I'm not sold at all on Aprilia. Heck, their test Scarabeo 500 didn't last long enough to even finish a review at motorcycleUSA.com! www.motorcycle-usa.com/823/10385/Motorcycle-Article/2011-Aprilia-Scarabeo-500ie-Comparison.aspx  And it's not just that event, but I see Aprilia's having problems on the forums as much as everything else. This choosing a scooter thing is tricky business. You go Jap, and yeah, probably gonna get the best reliability, but you are going to pay out the ying yang. Not only for the bike, but they are going to rape you on parts too for years to come. And it's only getting worse as time goes by. At least with Linhai the parts are reasonable, although they just had an 18% increase. And so what do we get for that 18% increase, Linhai? Because with the move you pulled on the crappy ass speedometers made of plastic as replacements for a much better made one out of metal that included a trip meter, you are losing me fast as a fan boy. I was kicking around the idea of moving up into 400-500cc range or so, and so that's why I was checking out this Linhai 400. Overall I have been pleased with my 300's performance, and the thing has never left me stranded so far. And I love the way it handles with the Michelin Pilot Sport SC's. But $5k + taxes and fees for a 352cc? No. Just no. I just assume ride the 300 until it pukes blood red oil. And you put that piece of crap speedo with no trip meter on the 400 too?  Get it together, Linhai. You had the in, and good user reviews, but you are screwing up. Get that fricken 400 tag off that measily 352cc bike. That should be illegal, because it is deceptive. Yeah, I know other companies do it too, but still. It just shows that you would choose a path of outright deception over the other route of honesty and good reputation. Losing me, Linhai, you're losing me. |
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Post by jwalz1 on May 22, 2012 13:07:57 GMT -5
Go try a Downtown 300i and tell me what you think. I think you will find a TON more power than you are used to out of a 300 and then I can PM you what my dealer charged me for mine.  |
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Post by rockynv on May 23, 2012 4:38:30 GMT -5
People tour the world on the Aprilia and trust me they have far fewer problems than the others.
Most troubles had on the forum are on 9 or 10 year old or much older bikes that have been in accidents or left stored outside unused for years. We do have an occasional voltage regulator issue etc but not the range of quality issues as with the clones. On the 150's we do see people that have problems after running them over 65mph but that is usually on 11 year old bikes that they bought second hand and they didn't realize that a 150 was not really designed for interstate travel at 70 mph.
I went from a Lance Znen bike that required monthly maintenance with oil changes and by 7,000 miles went through 3 heads, 3 drive belts, 1 variator, 1 clutch, transmission bearing replacement and required valve adjustment every 2 months along with a variety of other electrical repairs while at 9,000+ miles my Aprilia has only required a rear tire and 2 oil changes and Aprilia did replace the fuel pump on a service bulliten at no cost or labor on my part.
The one 500 that had a problem in the review was taken out to the boondocks before break-in and had a rare failure which would have been quickly corrected if they were anywhere near a servicing dealer. We have some Aprilia riders that will take the 500cc Aprilia on trips from the Norther tip of Alaska to the far Sounthern Tip of South America without any fear of brakdowns. That is pretty reliable scoot to handle that type of touring.
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Post by jim63 on May 23, 2012 5:28:19 GMT -5
With the economy the way it is, and with so many sweet deals on used and new bikes, the $5000 price tag for the Linhai is a real tough sell IMO. If it was a true 500/600cc bike you may get more interest.
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Post by ScootForFun on May 23, 2012 8:08:55 GMT -5
I don't think the "400" ever made it into the USA yet. I heard they are in Canada, and it's looking like August/September before they will be in the USA. I seem to recall Jim at Sunright saying something along those lines too, but not sure- that was a while back I talked to him...
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Post by jwalz1 on May 23, 2012 10:05:46 GMT -5
Well if it does, I don't think it will ever sell at that price. It looks like a nice scooter, but on paper at least, it does not deliver much to justify a $5,000 price tag, when for half as much, a low mileage Sym RV or Kymco Xciting 250 have the same weight and power from very reputable names and probably are a notch better build quality.
The Linhai 300 seems to be quite a great bargain for a lot of people, delivering good quality at a rock bottom price compared to other rides. But it seems like Sunright or whomever is trying to really up the profit in one step and might be getting ahead of themselves. Sure it is a fuel injected 350, but not a particularly strong one. I don't see anywhere from the specs where this model merits double the price of the still available Aeolus 300.
It looks like more of an evolution of the 300 and should bring some more money (in my worthless opinion anyway) but if you can still get a new 300 for $2500, even at $3500 that is a 40% price increase.
Linhai is a good brand, but there are also people here who swear by other chinese clone bikes, and there are brands of 260cc and 300cc fuel injected clone bikes now with the same hp rating and prices from $2700-$3000.
The 400 might be a good product, but unless it delivers something the others don't, I see few takers at $5k. Unless they get the engine to put out what you should get from a 350 because 22hp is fairly weak for that displacement.
I thought the main reason there were so many 300's at low prices was that they wanted too much for those to start with and ended up with a warehouse full of them. (along with overproduction from China) I'd be willing to bet the $5k price was a preliminary figure, and that gets revised when they get here.
There are SO many scooters now, and lots of good ones. You have to really stand out to get $5k.
I see people keep suggesting Aprillia's as good bargains too, but I never saw any dealer here in my state. Saw one used one on CL.
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Post by ScootForFun on May 23, 2012 20:34:04 GMT -5
j, your opinion is hardly "worthless". It is valued, and you are making good sense. I can't see $5K either, as that is a 100% price increase over the 300 at 2.5K - and which I have seen as low as $1,950 brand spanking new.
I may just have to take you up on that offer, seeing as the Kymco main deal is down in Spartanburg, SC only an hour away from me. I wonder if they'd let me test drive one. All I want is about 5 miles. Heck, I'd settle for 2 or 3 miles, if the right roads were close. A few curves and a straightaway and I could make some quick assessments of handling and power, compared to the Linhai 300.
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Post by rockynv on May 24, 2012 11:58:22 GMT -5
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Post by jwalz1 on May 24, 2012 13:14:01 GMT -5
j, your opinion is hardly "worthless". It is valued, and you are making good sense. ;D I just use "worthless" to descibe my opinion because I have posted on internet boards before, and if you state something it will usually ruffle someone's feathers and they will tell you how wrong you are. I just try to cut them off at the pass before they waste to much time telling me how foolish I am. I try not to get too worked up over what people say and try not to get others worked up, but can have strong opinions some times so preface it with a grain of salt for everyone. Be well. John I also may come of as a fanboy off my Kymco Downtown because I really thought enough of it to spend well more than I wanted too. But I'd be a sucker for a MaxSym if they ever brought one here. A good ride is a good ride no matter who puts it together. |
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Post by jwalz1 on May 24, 2012 13:19:58 GMT -5
I did look at the local dealer site here yesteday out of curiosity. I know they are selling some old stock at a good discounts, but have they not imported for a couple years? This particular dealer had nothing newer than 2009. |
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Post by unclebuggies on May 24, 2012 18:19:33 GMT -5
I agree, the Linhai 300 seems like a great bargain compared to the 400. I've had mine 3 years and love it. But those "new" 2009 models have been sitting in a crate with cheap Chinese fluid for 3 years. I wonder how that has affected hoses and corrosion-prone parts...
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Post by scooteritch on May 24, 2012 19:00:21 GMT -5
I just wanted to jump in on the conversation since I live in Atlanta, GA and Sunright is not too far from me. I actually stopped in back in April to pick up some parts for my Linhai Aeolus 260 and they actually had the 400 sitting in their lobby. I thought it was the 300 with a new design. My guess is that if the 400 is sitting in the lobby, they are selling it in the US. They also have a 200cc model that looks a bit retro but with a bigger and narrower wheels. Anyways, 400cc does exist - at least in the lobby of Sunright.
Unclebuggies - Did you ever make it into Sunright's distribution center? I know you live pretty close and you said you were going to try to stop by.
Thanks everyone!
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Post by unclebuggies on May 24, 2012 22:43:33 GMT -5
Didn't get in there yet. The wife is out of town this week and I'm playing single dad to two little girls. Haven't found the time. My jury-rigged cable assembly is still holding after several rides this week. I emailed him last weekend, though; disappointed I haven't heard back from him.
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Post by ScootForFun on May 24, 2012 22:47:31 GMT -5
Well if they have sold any in the US, I guess everyone's too busy riding the things to bother posting anything about them. Information is scant, but I did get a brochure from Linhai canada. In it there is a picture of the dash, and gotta admit, that don't like no crappy plastic speedo. In fact, quite on the contrary, they look quite bitchin! Tach added, and digital display with all kinds of goodies. See pic. And here is link to brochure: www.linhaicanada.com/images/stories/2011-gallery/LINHAI_SCOOTERS_web.pdfHmm, looks like there might just be more going on with that thing than meets the eye at first. 14 AH battery (that's huge!! Bigger than many motorcycle batteries), sweet dash, better power, EFI, large windshield stock, looks like much better lighting, 13" front wheel ... Ok OK... ;D Get that price down to the 4K range and I might could see taking the plunge... Even maybe over a used Majesty... The dealers are advertising at MSRP.... Attachments:
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Post by ScootForFun on May 24, 2012 23:06:08 GMT -5
Found another bigger, better pic of dash: 120 showing on speedo, and redline about 8200... Hmm... Attachments:
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Post by rockynv on May 24, 2012 23:24:15 GMT -5
I agree, the Linhai 300 seems like a great bargain compared to the 400. I've had mine 3 years and love it. But those "new" 2009 models have been sitting in a crate with cheap Chinese fluid for 3 years. I wonder how that has affected hoses and corrosion-prone parts... The 2009 bikes in question are from Italy and have Motul or AGIP synthetic oils, brake fluids and high grade coolants in them. They come with a factory unlimited mileage full parts and labor warranty. They are delivered with fresh fluids and a new oil filter. I have the 2009 Sport City 250 and have put over 9,000 trouble free miles on it since I purchased it last year. About half of those miles were on interstate trips at speeds matching traffic in 70 and 75 mph speed zones. Moto International is grabbing as many of the 2009 bikes as they can since they are able to sell the 250's at a substantial discount for $2,999 and you get a lot of bike for the money. That is less than the price of a Honda 150. I almost wish I had ponied up the $3,999 and went with the 500cc Scarabeo instead which ups the warranty to 2 years parts and labor with unlimited mileage. |
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Post by ScootDad on May 25, 2012 7:30:57 GMT -5
I've been by Sunright and have seen it as well. I didn't look too closely, as I'm not in the market for a new scoot. But the big deal is the EFI.
The last time I went (about a month ago) they told me they were still working on getting approval from the US gov't. I've no clue how long that takes.
It is a very nice looking bike, though.
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Post by ScootForFun on May 25, 2012 9:09:41 GMT -5
The last time I went (about a month ago) they told me they were still working on getting approval from the US gov't. I've no clue how long that takes. Well obviously there has been some kind of hangup, because this bike was supposed to have been available in 2010, and obviously hasn't made it yet. Ads at Scootertronics: "Coming soon in 2010". Umm, nope, not to the USA it hasn't. And yet Canada has approved it cause they are selling it up there. Funny that Sunright would have it sitting in their lobby for so long, but you can't even buy the darn thing. It seems this bike is Linhai's lower cost competition to a new Majesty/Burgman 400. A bit less power (around 46cc less), but still has all the modern goodies, and the gas mileage is probably a bit better. Price is out the roof though at $5k. I don't have a clue what they are thinking. A big part of their market is going to be people like us upgrading, that have owned Linhai 260's/300's and trust the dependability of that Yamaha-designed engine. Makes me wonder if Yamaha themselves might have a problem with it, and are helping to stall its USA release somehow. OK, I know, that is total conjecture. But it would be nice to get some kind of statement from Sunright on this thing, and what the holdup is. |
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Post by scooteritch on May 26, 2012 11:55:37 GMT -5
I've been by Sunright and have seen it as well. I didn't look too closely, as I'm not in the market for a new scoot. But the big deal is the EFI. The last time I went (about a month ago) they told me they were still working on getting approval from the US gov't. I've no clue how long that takes. It is a very nice looking bike, though. I see. I did not ask Jim if the scooter was available in the US. I just assumed it was since it was on the floor. One thing that I noticed was that the quality of the body parts was not that great. I noticed that the glove compartment door was misaligned (like mine - had to reshape to fit better) and the body panels seemed to look like the same style with the stupid tabs that breaks off when you try to remove them. The dashboard, I did not really see since it was not turned on. Overall, I agree with everyone that if the true price point came in around mid 3k to 4k, it may be another player to consider in the 400cc market. |
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Post by unclebuggies on May 26, 2012 13:05:28 GMT -5
"The 2009 bikes in question are from Italy and have Motul or AGIP synthetic oils, brake fluids and high grade coolants in them. They come with a factory unlimited mileage full parts and labor warranty. They are delivered with fresh fluids and a new oil filter."
Sorry for the confusion, Rocky. I was talking about the Linhai 300's out there, not the Aprilias.
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Post by ScootForFun on May 26, 2012 18:01:45 GMT -5
and the body panels seemed to look like the same style with the stupid tabs that breaks off when you try to remove them. You mean when you try to remove them incorrectly.  Cause if you pull just right at the right spots, it does come apart without breaking the tabs. The fact that you might break a few finding out where the right spots are, is only cause you might not have done it before. But still, I feel your pain, and hear what you're saying, cause it's true. But not insurmountable, if you take it to a dealer that works on them all the time. They are good enough quality to hold up assuming experienced people work on them. Anyway, maybe one of these days Jim will call someone back ( J/K) and we can find out more about the 352. |
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Post by scooteritch on May 26, 2012 20:59:52 GMT -5
Scootforfun - so true. Most broke the few times I took the side panel off. I don't break them now since I know what I am doing. :-)
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Post by chaz12 on May 26, 2012 22:30:02 GMT -5
The Downtown 300 LI is better built and you will not have much go wrong with it. It also does 90 mph so good for interstate travel as well as in town. After owning a Bali 250cc scooter, Chinese Scoot, well $4900 for a Chinese 400cc or $5200 for a Kymco. I would go with the Kymco because they warranty them. China doesn't warranty nothing and you must have cash. Kymco offers a payment plan too.
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Post by rockynv on May 28, 2012 6:16:36 GMT -5
"The 2009 bikes in question are from Italy and have Motul or AGIP synthetic oils, brake fluids and high grade coolants in them. They come with a factory unlimited mileage full parts and labor warranty. They are delivered with fresh fluids and a new oil filter." Sorry for the confusion, Rocky. I was talking about the Linhai 300's out there, not the Aprilias. I am getting old as I did not see the post on the 2009 Linhai bikes. A lot can be gained from a maker using quality fluids from the get go. In the bulk quantities that these bikes are made in along with the small amounts of fluids that they use what is the savings per bike going to be by using the cheap stuff? More than a few dollars per bike? Compare that to the costs of dealing with the cheap fluids due to the time many of these bikes sit waiting to be sold and one would think the cost to reputation alone would be worth upping the anti a few bucks per bike to eliminate this weak point in the chain. |
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Post by jwalz1 on May 28, 2012 10:36:48 GMT -5
The Downtown 300 LI is better built and you will not have much go wrong with it. It also does 90 mph so good for interstate travel as well as in town. After owning a Bali 250cc scooter, Chinese Scoot, well $4900 for a Chinese 400cc or $5200 for a Kymco. I would go with the Kymco because they warranty them. China doesn't warranty nothing and you must have cash. Kymco offers a payment plan too. $5200 is what I paid out the door. That included tax, title and tags. I was charged $4400 for a leftover 2011 with 0 miles on it, and $200 prep. So about $4600. That is why I say I like the Linhai, I think $3500 is a fair price because it is not quite on the level of the Taiwanese and it has an advertised nearly 50% less horsepower, and in my state that gets to about $4200 when you add tax title and license. But really the downside for me on the Linhai is the low power for a 350, although it will probably be torquey. And as people have mentioned, lots of Aprilias from 2009 in a very modern Italian bike at lower prices that Linhai's current quote. (The Aprilia has a high seat height though) Sticker is $5600 on the Downtown with wiggle room. Taking my first full day ride on the Kymco on Wednesday. Gonna double the two hundred miles on the odometer. Can't wait. |
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And it's not just that event, but I see Aprilia's having problems on the forums as much as everything else.
