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Post by jcornish on Oct 6, 2007 21:51:30 GMT -5
hi scooter lovers. Listen, I just bought a RoadRunner racer 150cc chinese scooter that for the most part runs great. It has a gy6 engind. Lately it has been burning out the headlights. I have gone through three sets. I am a fairly good mechanic but when it comes to electrical stuff I get lost. How do I test to see if it is the voltage regulator and or what other tests can I perform to find the problem. The light started burning out after an incident where one of the coil wires came loose and I had to nurse it back home. Any help is greatly appreciated.
Thanks, Joe
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Post by swampsniper on Oct 6, 2007 22:10:32 GMT -5
Well, I burned my way through several. My dealer wanted me to demand a new voltage regulator, from the importer. All my tests said voltage was no problem. The bulb I have in there now is doing fine!
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Post by mtnscootin on Oct 7, 2007 5:23:39 GMT -5
One thing...I had some work done and the "mechanic" forgot to re-connect the large ground wire from the engine to the grounding lug on the frame. This caused many problems. In addition to burning the lights out, it burned up my stator. Maybe not the case with yours, but worth checking.
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Post by earlwb on Oct 7, 2007 8:49:29 GMT -5
Sounds like a loose wire or bad connection someplace. On these Chinese scooters they sometimes have bad crimps on the connector pins, or connectors not plugged in well or loose pins inside a connector not pluged in well.
Sometimes when you plug a connector together one of the pins doesn't slip in like it should and it just barely makes contact.
Check the battery connections too, if one of those wires is loose it'll do weird things like this too.
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Post by 90GTVert on Oct 8, 2007 7:11:29 GMT -5
I went through 4-5 headlight bulbs and 3-4 brake light bulbs. No lose wires on mine. Replaced the regulator/rectifier, problem solved.
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Post by scooterjim on Oct 8, 2007 21:12:03 GMT -5
I have had many problems with the headlights on my Strada RX-150CE. I bought the scoot new and I went through about 10 sets of headlights in 14 months. The longest they've lasted was two months. The shortest was 4 days. Since it's under warranty I try to avoid making my own repairs.
The first time I took it to the dealer he replaced the lights. The second time he had to replace the lights and the wiring harness that connects the front end lights to the main wiring harness. The lights got so hot that they melted the sockets on the harness. I replaced the lights myself several times, but since it's under warranty, I decided to let the dealer do it from now on.
However, I did measure the voltage off the 12v 18w H4 headlights, while the lights were plugged in and the engine was on. At idol I measured 16 volts. When I gave it gas it quickly shot up to and sustained 32 volts. I stopped my testing right there because that seemed way too high for a 12 volt light. The voltage is AC, so it is coming right off the stator. I can't figure out where, or how, the voltage regulator comes into play. It doesn't seem like anything is regulating the AC voltage from the stator to the headlight. The turn signals and brake lights have never failed (different circuit???)
The third time I took it back he replaced the harness and lights, again. This time the lights blew out in 4 days. I also noticed that the tail light was out and the light above the license plate was out. In fact, the housing around the license plate light was melted. As was a portion of the headlight housing. It seems to me that there is just way too much voltage going to these lights and there's nothing in-line to regulate it.
I took it back to the dealer a 4th time and he said there's nothing more he could do. So, he put me on the phone with Power Sports Factory. They guaranteed me they'd fix it and mentioned that the wiring harness, going to the rear tail light, on rare occasions, will get pinched during assembly and cause weird problems like this.
Bottom line: My scoot is being shipped back to Power Sports Factory for repair. I doubt I will see it again for a long time. I'll keep you posted and let you know what they find.
Personally, I don't think it's a short. Whatever is supposed to regulate the AC off the stator is not doing it's job. Does anyone know what is supposed to regulate the voltage between the stator and the headlight on a Strada RX-150CE?
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Post by funderp47 on Oct 8, 2007 21:41:06 GMT -5
I am beginning to wonder if the regulator "clamps" the stator AC output as well as rectifies/regulates the DC charging output voltage. If it does, and fails, it would explain the high AC voltage some people keep seeing, along with headlamp failures.
Does anyone know if it does? Someday, I'll unplug my regulator and measure the stator output voltage.
It seems related to 2Down's problem in this thread.http://scootdawg.proboards59.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=talk&thread=1191247707&page=1
Finding out if the regulator keeps the stator AC voltage under control would be really nice to know. Folks that work on scooters for a living should know and pass along this tidbit of info.
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Post by funderp47 on Oct 9, 2007 7:38:09 GMT -5
Duuh, how do you make a thread clickable?
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Post by bob on Oct 9, 2007 11:35:25 GMT -5
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Post by 2Down on Oct 11, 2007 0:51:45 GMT -5
I'm pulling apart my stator. I have the fan off. I think I need to go to harbor freight to get a pulley puller to get the flywheel off. I tried a little leverage and a whack with a hammer but it wasn't havin' any.
Funderp47: that's good information. I think it will help my troubleshooting. I'm going to pull of the stator and replace it with another that I know was working fine. I'll check voltages and resistances. I'm also going to replace the wiring harness and make sure everything is doubly grounded. Like many aspects of these chinese scooters, it seems that magneto / stator system just barely works.
There's a pretty good diagram of system in the Tank-Gy6 Service Manual that I downloaded from oregonvintage.com.
2Down
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Post by 90GTVert on Oct 11, 2007 8:54:31 GMT -5
The 'flywheel' (rotor actually) is a taper fit, and using an external puller will often destroy it. Order the correct puller from one of the tool dealers such as www.pitposse.com and do it safely. The tool will cost about the same as the new rotor, but you won't have to hunt to find the part either. Stan I'm pulling apart my stator. I have the fan off. I think I need to go to harbor freight to get a pulley puller to get the flywheel off. I tried a little leverage and a whack with a hammer but it wasn't havin' any. Funderp47: that's good information. I think it will help my troubleshooting. I'm going to pull of the stator and replace it with another that I know was working fine. I'll check voltages and resistances. I'm also going to replace the wiring harness and make sure everything is doubly grounded. Like many aspects of these chinese scooters, it seems that magneto / stator system just barely works. There's a pretty good diagram of system in the Tank-Gy6 Service Manual that I downloaded from oregonvintage.com. 2Down |
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Post by earlwb on Oct 11, 2007 9:45:36 GMT -5
yes do use the correct flywheel puller tool, as you'll bend or warp the flywheel if you don't.
The tool is a lot easier to get than to find a new flywheel.
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Post by jcornish on Oct 11, 2007 18:47:57 GMT -5
From Jcornish,
thanks folks for all of the input. I will do some testing. Bye the way. I was driving the scooter the other day and it almost didn't get me home. the batter was not charging. I charged the battery overnight and tested it . the voltage was 13+ and holding. so i think the batter is ok. I don't know how to test the magneto and as far as the voltage regulator, I did not get good readings off of it. So any help in showing me how to test why the battery is not charging and also how to test the voltage regulator is appreciated. thanks so much for the help.
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Post by swampsniper on Oct 11, 2007 19:04:56 GMT -5
I'm pulling apart my stator. I have the fan off. I think I need to go to harbor freight to get a pulley puller to get the flywheel off. I tried a little leverage and a whack with a hammer but it wasn't havin' any. Funderp47: that's good information. I think it will help my troubleshooting. I'm going to pull of the stator and replace it with another that I know was working fine. I'll check voltages and resistances. I'm also going to replace the wiring harness and make sure everything is doubly grounded. Like many aspects of these chinese scooters, it seems that magneto / stator system just barely works. There's a pretty good diagram of system in the Tank-Gy6 Service Manual that I downloaded from oregonvintage.com. 2Down Just a word on "whacking" flywheels. Some of them have magnets held on with epoxy, and impact can make them come off. |
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Post by 2Down on Oct 15, 2007 1:22:33 GMT -5
Success! I swapped stators with one of my other scooters and the problem is solved. I haven't figured out what was wrong with the bad stator, because I spent the day riding my scooter around. Ed at Bandit Motors loaned me a flywheel puller that works by reverse threading a coupling into the center of the flywheel and then screwing a bolt into the center of the coupling. Very slick.
During the process I found that one problem I was having trouble shooting was the multimeter I was using. I had a couple of the cheap Harbor Freight Models that didn’t read accurately. I was reading 80 VAC at the bulb. Actually it was closer to 20. Now that it's working it reads about 14.8 VAC at WOT, and about 2VDC. I was also able to measure the resistances on the Voltage Regulator. There are three circuits to check Green to Ground for continuity, Red to White should be 3Kto50K depending on temperature, and yellow to green should be 5k to 100K. The red to white only works in one direction because there's a diode in the circuit which cuts out the reverse voltage giving the DC Current.
At this point I'm sticking with the factory bulb. I was able to order some from Bulbster.com. All 4 of my scooters use different bulbs. At some point I may convert them all to the best option, but at this point I'm just glad to have my RC150 back on the road. My original reason for wanting to replace the bulb was so that I could buy something off-the-shelf, but I was not able to find anything readily available. I think the ideal solution would be the 55/65W H4 automotive bulb, but that’s double the wattage of most scooter bulbs and would probably burn through the plastic lens. Also, they would be too dim at low RPMs on the six-coil-stator scooters. I think the 12 coil stators on the newer scoots might have sufficient juice to push them. For now, I’m just going to keep a spare in the trunk and at least one in my shop.
Thank you all for your help. This is an awesome forum.
2Down
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Post by funderp47 on Oct 15, 2007 9:36:00 GMT -5
Good news, 2Down, congratulations!
Do you know if the faulty stator was the one originally installed on the scooter? Since the stator is just wire wound around poles, the normal failure mode is an open wire or solder joint somewhere, or infrequently, a short or high resistance path to ground if the varnish type insulation breaks down. The stator voltage would be low or gone.
Stators don't generally fry. If the attached electrical load becomes too great, the stator output voltage will decay, along with output current, before the stator wire gets too hot. If battery voltage mistakenly gets applied to a stator winding, then the stator wire could burn up since one end of the stator is connected to ground, and its resistance is low. The battery fuse should blow before the wire gets hot. Don't oversize the battery fuse.
The magnet strength, gap between the magnet and poles, wire size and number of turns affects the output voltage. It would seem that mixing stators and rotors (flywheels) could cause a too high or low voltage. I've not seen enough scooter stuff to know how many different setups there are.
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Post by edssundiro on Oct 15, 2007 17:36:41 GMT -5
This may/may not apply here.
I have a 2002 Sundiro Horizon (originally a 50cc two stroke) that I converted to a 150cc GY6
I wound up rewiring the whole bike trying to figure out why it would burn all of the light bulbs
at high rpms. (Blew the headlight and brakelight several times).
I eventually found a 5 watt 5 ohm resistor in the front of the bike that wasn't hooked up to anything, after my attempts at rewiring this bike. I hooked this resistor up to the yellow stator wire (the resistor is encased in a metal box which grounds it to the frame)
problem solved, no more blown bulbs.
Ed
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Post by funderp47 on Oct 15, 2007 19:55:00 GMT -5
Ed, finally someone who has seen the elusive resistor that shows up on some of the scooter wiring diagrams! I can't find it on mine. .
jcornish, to check your charging system, start at the battery. Check battery voltage with the scooter not running. It should be about 12.6 volts dc.
Start the engine. The battery voltage should rise to 13-15 volts dc. If it does, all is well with the charging system.
If battery voltage does not increase with the engine running, check the fuse first. If it cranked with the starter, the fuse SHOULD be ok.
Fuse ok, go find the regulator. Most have four wires. Possibly red, green, yellow and white. The regulator receives AC voltage on two wires and outputs DC voltage on the other two wires.
The red wire should be the + dc voltage out and the green - dc (ground).
Push the test lead probes in the holes for the yellow and the white wire (probably). Whatever ain't red or green. Start the engine. Set the meter to AC volts. It should read AC volts. Mine reads a little over 13 volts AC. If it does, then the stator is providing AC to the regulator.
Push the test leads in the red and green wires. Without the engine running, the voltage should be whatever battery voltage was on the first test. The battery voltage has to be there in order for the regulator to "sense" battery voltage in order to regulate.
Start the engine. The voltage should increase to 13-15 volts DC. If it doesn't, the regulator is probably bad.
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Post by jcornish on Oct 15, 2007 22:27:39 GMT -5
Funderp 47,
Thanks so much for the help. I worked a long week so didn't get to work on the scooter. Off tomorrow so I will follow your instructions and get back to you. Thanks a bunch.
Jcornish
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Post by 2Down on Oct 16, 2007 23:34:24 GMT -5
funderp47, The bad stator arrived on the new replacement engine I received. Everything worked perfectly but the headlight blowing out. I haven't checked resistances on the bad stator, or even looked closely at it. I was so happy to get it fixed that I spent the rest of the weekend riding.
2down
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Post by jcornish on Oct 18, 2007 21:55:14 GMT -5
FUNDERP 47
Thank you so much for the help, I did everything you said and discovered the the regulator was not working well. changed it out and everything seems to be working oK. time will tell. Thanks again.
JC
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