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Post by ericrockstar on Apr 14, 2012 10:43:06 GMT -5
Valve adjustment looks trickier than it really is. Basically you take the valve cover off. Easy enough. You see the cam. I take the cvt cover off so I can turn the motor with the variator nut. You want to line up three holes on the cam. Two little ones and big one in middle. Make the two little holes flush with the edge of the head. At this point, there should be the slightest bit I'd play in the rocker arms. If there's no play, they're too tight. You loosen up the lock nut and unscrew the tappet a very little bit and slide your feeler gauge in to set the gap. .004" intake and .005" exhaust. Intake is on the top, exhaust is on the bottom.
When the cam holes are lined up like this, you can do both valves without having to turn the engine anymore. It can also help to take the spark plug out as this will make the engine easier to turn.
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Post by Smoak-Eater on Apr 14, 2012 11:22:38 GMT -5
I haven't adjusted the valves (yet), and this morning it cranks right up and idles normally. So it fired right up, and idled then later you tried to start again and.. Do this.. when it is NOT starting all the sudden. Pull the spark plug wire off. Tape the plug wire cap to the frame, or if you can find a short piece of metal (like a bolt), stick it in the plug wire cap. Hold it (with a pair of insulated handle pliers) close to the spark plug... do one of these two things and then try to start the bike. If you don't see a spark between the cap/frame or cap/plug.. It is an electrical problem. You must do this when the bike wont start only. If you do it when it will start, it wont help. Silent warrior may be correct that you have valve problems and they need adjusted, but if it fired up and idled first thing this morning, now it wont, then your not getting fire to the spark plug. Silent, you mentioned the CDI.. Is this the distributor-equivalent on a scoot? hot stuff.. go chase some wires, dude. This is an electrical problem. check the spark from the plug cap man.. That will tell you for sure. Just wait to do it when it is in the "no start you wanna pull your hair out" mode..
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Post by HotStuff2 on Apr 14, 2012 12:07:11 GMT -5
FINALLY got the cover off. I did it the hard way, but figured it out. Looks like both of them fail the Coke (well, Pepsi) can folded in half width test. Fairly confident I have it set to TDC, but can't actually see the marker to line it up to. I used video "Scooter How-To : GY6 Valve Adjustment" by 90GTVert, and he showed how to line the holes up so it should be TDC. I don't really like using the aluminum can folded in half test, so I'm gonna run out and pick up a set of cheap feeler gauges at Advance Auto parts just to make sure. BTW, already tested the spark plug grounded, and it is sparking. Not as strong as I'd like, but I don't know if that's normal or not. I'm thinking about just picking up an Iridium plug at the same time as I go get the feelers. Have to take a break for a bit, my back is killing me and it's meds time anyway. And hey, since I haven't said it already, thanks for the help. I'm actually a pretty opinionated @$$h0le, but I'm also the first to give credit where credit is due. Side note: found out that my other neighbor, who has a 2012 Taotao CY150-A, has HIS in the shop - same problem as myself and my other neighbor. He has ~2,000Km on the clock, and both my neighbors scooters were bought from the same place (Cycle Exchange on Florida Ave here in Tampa.) Im thinking that maybe Taotao doesn't set the valves properly at the factory, and maybe mine just picked up the problem way before there's did.
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Post by ericrockstar on Apr 14, 2012 12:51:33 GMT -5
They often set them to an almost zero clearance because it makes the engine a little more quiet. Then the valves settle in and the tapets keep them from closing all the way. Usually the exhaust because of the heat. Many people go lower to like a .003~.002 to keep the valves quiet. You may notice them sound a little ticky ticky after adjusting.
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Post by chromestarhustler on Apr 14, 2012 13:04:50 GMT -5
sell it get a honda. yamaha, kymco, or a ninja 250.
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Post by silentwarrior on Apr 14, 2012 13:21:06 GMT -5
1st smoak
yea its the computer/distributor/GOD of china scoots
you can get a brand new one and 1 week later you wont start, start chasing elect., skip that cause its brand new tear your hair out. Test it and find it's toast
also, if you ask alot of the REAL mechanics on here, im not, but i know a bit, they will say "stuff's " symptoms are are CLASSIC for valves. especially if he has spark, like he says he did after your post
STUFF glad you found 90GTVERT's video thats the one i had "bookmarked", i thought you follow that its easy peeze lemon pie ieie
and yea seeing the spark is hard i throw a old coat over me also SMOAK--since your new at scoots ill address you also when you test fr spark on these, you gotta make sure your getting spark on the valve cover and also on the frame-BOTH sometimes u can get spark on one and NOT the other and thats,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,um cant 'member now lol 420
well we will see
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Post by HotStuff2 on Apr 14, 2012 14:38:47 GMT -5
Yep, it looks like they were set to pertty much .000, and now the exhaust is at .004, and I set the intake to .004 as well, but it's really tight - more like .003, which slides in easily. I figured that was good enough. We'll see. While I have it this far apart, I went ahead and pulled out the stock airbox, and picked up some quickset plastic epoxy putty and sealed the crack up well. Interesting (to me), the stock airbox is basically glued on to the tube with a rubber-type cement, which is what was cracked (not the actual tube, it was cracked at the seal where the two join.) I figured it wouldn't hurt to seal it up real well; the epoxy sets in 5 minutes, and cures in an hour, which is enough time for me to let my back relax. Damn getting old sucks. (I know, I know: )
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Post by silentwarrior on Apr 14, 2012 14:43:46 GMT -5
old ?? u aint old yet? hope the valves sit good did you lock tite them like 49vert says to??
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Post by Smoak-Eater on Apr 14, 2012 14:44:38 GMT -5
1st smoak yea its the computer/distributor/GOD of china scoots you can get a brand new one and 1 week later you wont start, start chasing elect., skip that cause its brand new tear your hair out. Test it and find it's toast also, if you ask alot of the REAL mechanics on here, im not, but i know a bit, they will say "stuff's " symptoms are are CLASSIC for valves. especially if he has spark, like he says he did after your post STUFF glad you found 90GTVERT's video thats the one i had "bookmarked", i thought you follow that its easy peeze lemon pie ieie and yea seeing the spark is hard i throw a old coat over me also SMOAK--since your new at scoots ill address you also when you test fr spark on these, you gotta make sure your getting spark on the valve cover and also on the frame-BOTH sometimes u can get spark on one and NOT the other and thats,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,um cant 'member now lol 420 well we will see I was just trying to be helpful And, while I don't make a living wrenching, I have been turning a wrench for more than 25 years on my own and other peoples cars, trucks, dozers, farm implements, motorcycles, and ATV's. But you are correct, I am new to "scoots." "Real" can be such a subjective term for mechanics. @stuffs. Glad you got yours broken down to get to the valves. I myself will be doing that soon on my new ride with the 257cc motor. I hope that fixes your problems, bro. Good luck to you. Smoak
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Post by HotStuff2 on Apr 14, 2012 14:46:18 GMT -5
sell it get a honda. yamaha, kymco, or a ninja 250.
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Post by HotStuff2 on Apr 14, 2012 16:08:08 GMT -5
I hope that fixes your problems, bro. Good luck to you. Smoak That makes two of us. I'm buttoning things back up (albeit slowly - damned back is killing me, what with all the twisting and turning.) Hoping that it cranks right up, I'll adjust the idle (since I messed with that, I'm sure it's off), and, fingers crossed, it idles and runs right.
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Post by chromestarhustler on Apr 14, 2012 16:20:29 GMT -5
sell it get a honda. yamaha, kymco, or a ninja 250. ok thats the best reply i have had in a long time, hotstuff isn gonna take my crap. maybe he will stick around a while. welcome to the board hotstuff, hope your problem is fixed.
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Post by silentwarrior on Apr 14, 2012 16:53:46 GMT -5
1st smoak yea its the computer/distributor/GOD of china scoots you can get a brand new one and 1 week later you wont start, start chasing elect., skip that cause its brand new tear your hair out. Test it and find it's toast also, if you ask alot of the REAL mechanics on here, im not, but i know a bit, they will say "stuff's " symptoms are are CLASSIC for valves. especially if he has spark, like he says he did after your post STUFF glad you found 90GTVERT's video thats the one i had "bookmarked", i thought you follow that its easy peeze lemon pie ieie and yea seeing the spark is hard i throw a old coat over me also SMOAK--since your new at scoots ill address you also when you test fr spark on these, you gotta make sure your getting spark on the valve cover and also on the frame-BOTH sometimes u can get spark on one and NOT the other and thats,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,um cant 'member now lol 420 well we will see I was just trying to be helpful And, while I don't make a living wrenching, I have been turning a wrench for more than 25 years on my own and other peoples cars, trucks, dozers, farm implements, motorcycles, and ATV's. But you are correct, I am new to "scoots." "Real" can be such a subjective term for mechanics. @stuffs. Glad you got yours broken down to get to the valves. I myself will be doing that soon on my new ride with the 257cc motor. I hope that fixes your problems, bro. Good luck to you. Smoak smoak im sorry do you think i said something rude??? naw not at all meant. your thoughts are good just you are still thinking car or such instead of these crazy china scoots and hopefully your valves are locked down and they dont slip at all. but its chinese, so they will :-( you should if you can afford it, get a new CDI and coil oh maybe i see whats up when i said REAL mech i didnt mean you, you will see ther are people who will argue about what they say is Gospel but they are usally wrong
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Post by HotStuff2 on Apr 14, 2012 17:49:27 GMT -5
Good news: put it together enough to start it, and yes, it cranks right up. Now, adjusting the idle is another issue entirely. Just when I think I have it set properly, the engine decides to rev itself, enough to spin the back wheel too fast to stop by hand (as in way too fast.) Without a damn tach on the bike, it's difficult to set the idle speed properly (and yes, I made sure to wait until it was warmed up well and good.) Any hints on what I should do, or look/listen for? Also, I can hear the valves tapping now - that's normal, no?
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Post by silentwarrior on Apr 14, 2012 18:03:29 GMT -5
YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA it runs
how much of a TAP?
if you didnt use locktite they might have slipped again
this is the hard part---i cant hear or anyone how much of a tap you have. i hate to say it, but they may need re-set again -sorry i just cant tell you if its right. i have no tapping but i set mine pretty tight i do a very loose .004 (metric) exhaust and a very tight .005 intake. and the .004, .005 are just good starting points your might be .003 on both
now the idling.
you dont have a tach, you say how good is your hearing? can you hear the difference of a slight more in revs or less?
if you think you can we can re-set the A/F screw again
let us know
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Post by silentwarrior on Apr 14, 2012 18:13:42 GMT -5
ADJUSTING YOUR AIR/FUEL MIXTURE: YOU WANT THE HIGHEST RPMS OUT OF THE AIR/FUEL MIXTURE SCREW: Before you start it Turn the Air/Fuel Mixture Screw CLOCKWISE UNTIL IT STOPS do not tighten it just until it stops BUT COUNT how many TURNS IT TOOK TO CLOSE it. Then Turn it COUNTER CLOCKWISE the same amount of turns back to where it was. Start your scoot and Get The Engine Nice and Hot about 10 minutes so that the Enricher is no longer Allowing Extra Fuel to come in. Then do the following to fine tune the Air/Fuel Ratio: RICHEN THE AIR/FUEL MIXTURE: 1. Turn the Air/Fuel Mixture COUNTER CLOCKWISE 1/4 turn and wait 10-15 seconds to let the engine catch up with the new setting. a. If the RPMS go up REPEAT 1 UNTIL the RPMS GO DOWN OR NO CHANGE. b. Then TURN the Air/Fuel Mixture 1/8 CLOCKWISE and that should be your highest Air/Fuel Mixture setting , GO TO 3. *****If on the FIRST 1/4 TURN from the STARTING Position IN #1 ABOVE the RPMS GO DOWN OR NO CHANGE , turn the Air/Fuel Mixture Back the 1/4 turn to the Starting position and wait 10-15 seconds until the engine catchs up and go to #2***** LEAN THE AIR/FUEL MIXTURE: 2. Turn the Air/Fuel Mixture CLOCKWISE 1/4 turn and wait 10-15 seconds to let the engine catch up with the new setting. a. If the RPMS go up REPEAT 2 UNTIL the RPMS GO DOWN OR NO CHANGE. b. Then TURN the Air/Fuel Mixture 1/8 COUNTER CLOCKWISE and that should be your highest Air/Fuel Mixture setting, GO TO 3. IDLE SPEED SCREW: 3. If after adjusting your Air/Fuel Mixture your idle is to fast Turn the IDLE SPEED SCREW COUNTER CLOCKWISE until your Rear Wheel JUST Barely wants to Turn or around 1500-1800 rpms. 4. If 1 or 2 above DOES NOT produce any RPM Change you most likely have a CLOGGED PILOT JET "OR" you did not get the ENGINE HOT ENOUGH and you were working against the ENRICHER which has not yet closed off the extra fuel. If the engine was nice and hot running for about 10 minutes and the Enricher was off then its time to take off the Carb and Clean out the Jets and all the Carb Passages. If adjusted correctly you should be able to give the Throttle a QUICK half turn and the Engine should REV UP with no bogging hesitation and get a nice VROOOOOOOOOOOM. The Rpms should come down nice and settle at the Rpms you set your Idle to. Read more: scootdawg.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=carbissues&action=display&thread=37766#ixzz1s3kDjyEb
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Post by HotStuff2 on Apr 14, 2012 18:27:03 GMT -5
YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA it runs how much of a TAP? if you didnt use locktite they might have slipped again this is the hard part---i cant hear or anyone how much of a tap you have. i hate to say it, but they may need re-set again -sorry i just cant tell you if its right. i have no tapping but i set mine pretty tight i do a very loose .004 (metric) exhaust and a very tight .005 intake. and the .004, .005 are just good starting points your might be .003 on both I set them to .003 intake (well, a rather tight .004), and .004 exhaust. It's not a lot of tapping, but it can be heard when idling (I think.) The exhaust screw was VERY tight - I had to use a wrench to even turn it. The intake was able to turn by hand once I loosened the nut. But remember, last time it did this, it sat at the shop for 3 days, and cranked right up, ran for a week no problems. now the idling. you dont have a tach, you say how good is your hearing? can you hear the difference of a slight more in revs or less? if you think you can we can re-set the A/F screw again let us know My hearing is horrible - lost most of it in the Army (it's actually part of my disability. I'm as deaf as a doorknob.) I'm debating about taking it back out and checking the valved again. It's a lot of work (for me), and the twisting and turning are wreaking havoc on my back. I might re-set them to .002/.003 or something...
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Post by silentwarrior on Apr 14, 2012 18:38:31 GMT -5
i would re -set them if i was you but that your opinion
unless its your only ride sit back for the rest of the night RELAX hit it 1st thing in the morning
if you have locktite that works great - blue i think
every time i do mine i have to take the &^%$#(*&^ apart and re-set them 2-3 times my hands are to big i guess DONT GO DOWN TO MUCH ima guessin' a lil tapping is better than not opening all the way
do you have a friend, a better 1/2, someone that can listen when you do A/F screw ? w/o a tach, might be hard, your a solider, you will figure it out
if you keep at it, i will be checking thru out the evening to see whats up
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Post by HotStuff2 on Apr 14, 2012 18:44:08 GMT -5
A few good starts doth not make a problem fixed. Went out side to see if I could shoot some video (and audio), and sure enough, 10 seconds in, boom - it died, and now it won't crank again.
But, this should be sufficient to see if you can hear the tapping, no?
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Post by ericrockstar on Apr 14, 2012 18:44:31 GMT -5
A little bit of tick tick tick is good.
Now, since your carb is all out of whack, I would start with the standard 2 full turns out from all the way in on your a/f screw. Back your idle way off if the wheels are spinning already. Oh yeah, you do this when the engine is warmed up so the auto choke is off. Get the idle to just about where the wheel wants to spin, then back it off 1/2 turn. Now you'll be set to mess with the a/f settings.
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Post by ericrockstar on Apr 14, 2012 18:52:52 GMT -5
I just watched your video. The ticking sounds fine to me. I wouldn't mess with the valves anymore. If its not trying to crank at all now, you may have just blown a fuse. It should be right close to the battery. There's only one on the machines.
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Post by silentwarrior on Apr 14, 2012 18:57:27 GMT -5
yeppers what rockstar said sounds ok, but im 65% deaf also lol
check you fuse, like he said and do the a/f adjust and LET US PRAY ..........
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Post by HotStuff2 on Apr 14, 2012 19:14:22 GMT -5
i would re -set them if i was you but that your opinion unless its your only ride sit back for the rest of the night RELAX hit it 1st thing in the morning if you have locktite that works great - blue i think It is my only ride, but I have nowhere to go, and all weekend to get there. If I have to run out for smokes, I have a mountain bike to get me to the corner store, plus some neighbors who can give me a ride (or one that lets me borrow his 49cc scooter. Feels like I'm riding a lawnmower compared to mine!) Yeah, it's a PITA, but I'm gonna re-check them tomorrow morning. I don't have any Loctite on me, but I'll see if I can pick some up. Don't really think it's necessary, though. every time i do mine i have to take the &^%$#(*&^ apart and re-set them 2-3 times my hands are to big i guess DONT GO DOWN TO MUCH ima guessin' a lil tapping is better than not opening all the way That's what she said. do you have a friend, a better 1/2, someone that can listen when you do A/F screw ? w/o a tach, might be hard, your a solider, you will figure it out if you keep at it, i will be checking thru out the evening to see whats up My son is here with me, I'll enlist his help. First I have to get it idling consistently, though. Especially have to get it warmed up before I start adjusting the A/F mixture.
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Post by silentwarrior on Apr 14, 2012 19:22:31 GMT -5
great attitude
""thats what she said "" ROFL
turn a/f screw in all the way, then out 2 turns then yea if it starts and runs , even with giving it alot throttle, adjust by 1/4 turns till you get the highest revs then re adjust idle screw till it idles like a kitty
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Post by HotStuff2 on Apr 14, 2012 19:33:14 GMT -5
Doesn't the engine have to be warmed up first, so that the auto choke isn't engaged?
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Post by ericrockstar on Apr 14, 2012 19:38:43 GMT -5
Yeah. Adjust the valves with the engine cold. Adjust the carb with the engine warmed up. That way the auto choke (enricher) is off.
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Post by silentwarrior on Apr 14, 2012 19:59:57 GMT -5
eric ill ask now since we are on the subject when i do my valves and i have to re-do them again and again how long should i let it sit? i been doing a hour but if people would agree to 5-10 mins man im happy ;D
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Post by ericrockstar on Apr 14, 2012 20:14:23 GMT -5
I was told, you do them at like first thing in the morning cold. An acceptable wait period...IDK? First thing in the morning cold. That's what I was told and I stick to it. Now, if you have to do this more than twice in one day, there may be a bigger problem going on.
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Post by silentwarrior on Apr 14, 2012 20:23:58 GMT -5
no its not that one of them, when i check the 2nd time, slipped, i dont hold the square nut hard enough after 2nd time , they're good for along time this is only my 4-5th time to do them 7000+ miles
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Post by HotStuff2 on Apr 15, 2012 9:33:24 GMT -5
OK, 12 hours of sleep, I'm going to go work on it again. Gonna check the valves again. But if she won't idle, how do I get the motor warmed up? Just keep giving it gas for ~10 minutes or so?
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