New scooter died & won't idle - again.

[HotStuff2]

OK, here's the situation: I bought my Taotao CY150-A, it ran for a couple of days, then just "died" on me as I was riding around. I replaced the spark plug (side of the road fix on April 4), but it still wouldn't start. My son ended up walking it the ~2 miles to the local scooter shop. In the parking lot, they put on a new spark plug boot; it still wouldn't start (electric OR kick start.) So, on that Wednesday, I left it there to get it looked at by the mechanics.

The following Saturday afternoon, the shop wheeled it in, and it cranked right up. No problems whatsoever idling or running. I drove it home, and it's been running just fine - my son even took it on a 30-mile-each-way trip to see his GF across the bay.

Until today.

Same damned thing happened around noon - it just died while I was sitting at a red light. I was able to get it started, but it was very sluggish on takeoff, but would finally go (enough to get me home.) But it would stall if I let it idle, so I had to keep it revved up at the stop lights.

When I got back here, my son noticed that the air filter tube was loose, so we put it back on nice and tight, but it still won't idle (it just dies.) I tried adjusting the idle screw, but that's not helping.

I just pulled the spark plug out, and this is what it looks like, 9 days old:







Seems like the spark plug is fouled too much for being only (slightly over) a week old. Or is this normal?

What could be causing this issue? I really don't want to take it back down to the scooter shop - they're backed up for days - only to have it "magically start working" after they let it sit.

[PasoDoble]

I'm looking at a messy, polluted plug and unless you are certain it is not a new or recent one (to warrant a simple replacement) then there's some bad combustion taking place.

Perhaps Stillife and/or SW will know immediately what had caused it.

I'm a rider, not at all a mechanic.

[bradderheim]

based on what others here have told me,

that black stuff is carbon buildup from too much gas (running rich).
could be from a number of things.
fuel lines, petcock, carb, float bowl, but there's a lot of people here that know more than i do.

have you replaced fuel lines at all?
has the petcock/vacuum valve ever been replaced?
has it sat for an extended period of time without being used (6 months+)?

[tortoise]

Previous thread context.

Keeping all the issues in one thread at least provides a history for troubleshooting speculation.

[HotStuff2]

Also, the air intake tube is cracked all the way down the side, even through where the scooter shop put some gunk on it. I'm thinking that I need to get some JB Weld or or something, or else just go ahead and switch it over to a cone filter. From the looks of the plug, it seems to be running a bit rich anyway; wouldn't switching it over to a cone filter cause it to run a bit leaner?

[HotStuff2]

Apr 13, 2012 16:05:34 GMT -5 PasoDoble said:

I'm looking at a messy, polluted plug and unless you are certain it is not a new or recent one (to warrant a simple replacement) then there's some bad combustion taking place.

The spark plug is nine days old. So yeah, it's brand new, but I don't think replacing it is going to fix the issue.

Apr 13, 2012 16:08:53 GMT -5 bradderheim said:

based on what others here have told me,

that black stuff is carbon buildup from too much gas (running rich).
could be from a number of things.
fuel lines, petcock, carb, float bowl, but there's a lot of people here that know more than i do.

have you replaced fuel lines at all?
has the petcock/vacuum valve ever been replaced?
has it sat for an extended period of time without being used (6 months+)?

Yes, I was thinking the same thing - it appears to be running too rich. No, I have not yet replaced the fuel (or air) lines. The petcock/vacuum valve is the stock one AFAIK. No, this has been driven every day for the past week, and had two gas fill-ups already (plus I added gas today, thinking that maybe it was too empty.)

[PasoDoble]

Apr 13, 2012 16:21:38 GMT -5 HotStuff2 said:

The spark plug is nine days old. So yeah, it's brand new, but I don't think replacing it is going to fix the issue.

I did assume it to be a new one as well and with that said, it proves there's excessive build up from somewhere caused within and like "Bradderheim" suggested, it may well be too but have you been throttling excessively as well during every standstill?

Clean the plug and bleed the system and try avoid over-throttling and see if that helps?

[HotStuff2]

No, at red lights and stops I haven't been using the throttle at all (except for today, where I had to rev the engine to keep it from stalling.)

When you say "bleed the system", what do you mean? The fuel lines? I'm not exactly sure how to do that...

[ericrockstar]

I might also check the jet needle. If it is an adjustable type, lower the c-clip on it to lean out the carb some. May also be a good time to check a/f screw. All the way in then two full turns out. Has the temperature been changing a lot where your at? Maybe the carb was tuned at one temp and now at different temps needs to be adjusted. They are very sensitive to climate changes.

[HotStuff2]

No, the temp here in Tampa FL has been pretty consistent: roughly ~70 to ~80 F.

I'll hafta check the engine and the service manual to find the a/f screw. I'm too tired to do it right now, damned back is killing me and I'm aggravated at it anyway.

[12string]

same thing with the same scoot happened to a teen friend of mine in Clearwater FL. We replaced the plug and it still would quit and not start. I finally found a loose wire that feeds power to the coil. Not real loose just slides on and off with very little effort. I crimped it down so it fit nice and tight and it has been running great for 2 weeks. I have not pulled the plug since the new one was installed, she lives 50 miles away and I have not had to go back.

[HotStuff2]

Where in Tampa are you? I'm over by Fletcher and Nebraska.

[HotStuff2]

Now it starts, but it just won't idle. I need to let it warm up so the automatic clutch isn't engaged, but even adjusting the idle screw all the way down won't do it (I know, I know, that's a bad thing.) I couldn't find any loose wires.

Question: there is what appears to be a drain hose coming out of the carb, and it leaks gas sporadically. I'm assuming this isn't normal...?

[stilllife]

I posted some instructions that here that seem to have gotten deleted. I was modifying my own post for clarity and it tells me it no longer exists. WTF...

Anyways instead of writing it out all over again. Here is a link on how to adjust the Carb.
www.scooterfocus.com/scooter_carburetor_adjustment.html

[HotStuff2]

Yep, already found that one and have it open in a tab right next to this one.

Problem is, is says to have the motor idling to adjust it - and mine dies when I try to let it idle.

[ericrockstar]

I forgot to ask, have you done a valve adjustment yet? Sometimes that helps majorly with hard start and stalling issues.

[wile]

You have a couple of problems:
1. it is running rich.
2. Your valves need to be adjusted, the dieing out at low rpms(coming to a stop) are classic symptoms.
So First adjust your valves to TOP intake Valve to .004" and BOTTOM EXHAUST Valve to .005" or you can also set it to .004" your choice.

Then turn the Fuel Ratio screw Clockwise until it stops and then Turn it COUNTER Clockwise 2 turns (since your in Florida and its hot you need less fuel).
If it IDLE to low TURN the IDLE SPEED SCREW Clockwise a little to bring up the IDLE then after it warms up about 5 minutes you can Fine tune the Carb.

When tuneing the Fuel Ratio Mixture you want the HIGHEST IDLE you can get out of it.
So from the two turns out
1. Turn the Fuel Ratio Screw 1/4 turn Counter Clockwise and wait 10 or so seconds to allow the motor to catch up with the new Setting.
a. If the idle goes up repeat #1.
b. On the 2nd or more repeat of #1 the Idle goes down or does nothing THEN TURN it 1/8 Clockwise, this should be the highest Mixture you can get out of the Fuel Ratio.

*** If on the VER FIRST 1/4 Turn Counter Clockwise the IDLE GOES down or does NOTHING REPEAT #1 But CLOCKWISE ***

If at the end of the setting the idle is to high LOWER your idle using the IDLE SPEED SCREW
Turning it Counter Clockwise will lower the Idle. You DO NOT want the Rear Wheel Spinning while IDLEING.

You should be able to then Give the THrottle a Quick Twist the rpms should climb without any hisitation or bogging and come down to where you set the idle.
Wile

[silentwarrior]

thanks wilie ;D

i was gonna post all that
as soon as u see the plug -9 days old-
WAY WAY RICH
but i get down to the bottom and you posted in front of me
when i clicked on it the rockstar was last poster
yeaaa

[HotStuff2]

I don't have any feeler gauges to adjust the valves. Would the valves and the A/F Ratio be what's causing it to run too rich? Why would the scooter run for over a week just fine, then suddenly die like this (again)? That doesn't make sense.

Guess I'll hafta run out and find some feeler gauges in the morning. Hopefully I can find a cheap set.

[silentwarrior]

um
cause one of your valves is way off

adjust your valves 1st
bet your probs go away

probaly wont have to touch A/F screw

[silentwarrior]

it has been said by many quality mechs
that you can use a coke can
cut a nice long strip all the way up/down
fold it in 1/2

thats good enough for a rough job

[ericrockstar]

Mainly, your trying to eliminate possibilities. Correct valve adjustment can clear up a lot of hard starting, idle and stalling issues.

Carburetor cleaning and adjustment will do wonders also. This is definitely where your rich running condition is coming from.

I was gonna suggest the coke can!

[Smoak-Eater]

I'm a noob here on these forums, and am also a bit unfamiliar with single carbs. I'm used to working on 4-in-a-row

But, I did think I read you have a blow off hose/valve on the carb that is intermittently spitting gas?

Just my .02 cents, but I would start tracking down every wire in whatever system feeds fire to your spark. Your not running rich, your having trouble burning off the fuel being pumped in!

It quits on you, then wont start, then fires right up later for the mechanic?

I would bet a bag of Krispy Kremes that your problem is ECM (or the equivelant) problem.

What we used to call the "computer" on old cars under the hood would do the same thing. Go ok for a bit, stall die. Wait two hours, fire right up.. You have an electric/spark control problem.

Check whatever is the equivalent of the distributor and what controls the distributor. That sounds like the problem.

I am not familiar with the lingo on these small motors, and am sure someone else here could translate my above terms into scoot speak?

[HotStuff2]

I haven't adjusted the valves (yet), and this morning it cranks right up and idles normally.

[silentwarrior]

the problem with diagnosing scoots on line
is you cant hear, see, anything.

glad yours started this am.
but you need to find the problem and fix it so it wont leave you stranded.

smoak eater mentioned a few things that you can look at

if you have a mulitmeter
you can check all the electrics from pick up coil to stator to cdi, to coil to plug
and find the problem

theres links on here some where to show multi settings
you should find.


but i do think your stalls ,,wont idle is still related to valves

[HotStuff2]

Agreed, but having never done a valve adjustment, I'm trying to figure out how to do it. I mean, I could take it into the shop, but that would take a while. The feeler gauges are like $8 or so, not a lot, so no big deal. I've Googled how to do it, found a few guides, but obviously none of them are exactly the same engine I have, so I have to figure out what to do.

Wish there was a scooter club around here like my old Miata club, we used to meet up once a week, and we'd schedule tech Saturdays, where we'd all pitch in and work on each other's cars based on what we knew how to do.

[silentwarrior]

just go to youtube
type in GY-6 valve adjustment

theres plenty of videos

if you have a laptop like me,
you can take it to the garage and pause and go at your convenience

have a clean rag handy so you dont drop oil on your laptop
like i did once

[HotStuff2]

And we're back to not starting.

I can figure it out, but I'd pay someone to come show me!

[silentwarrior]

me 2

id much rather watch someone and help
the first time i do something
rather than a youtube video
but no luck for me

this is not the best video
i had a great one book marked, but its gone
this one is ok

now he is using SAE gaps not metric

[HotStuff2]

Well, that helps somewhat. I agree, I'd much rather watch and help someone at least the first time. But unless 12string has some free time today, sees this, and is willing to help, looks like I'm on my own. I at least see what needs to be done, but I'm gonna hafta research it more and watch some other videos first - I don't want to screw anything up.