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Post by lazerorca on Jan 18, 2012 23:11:37 GMT -5
So today I went to get a new battery because I believed that the old one was dead. The scooter was only starting when I kick started in and the fuel gauge needle wasn't working very well...
So I go to get a new battery and charge it. I go to put it in and the fuse burns out. I replace that fuse and it burns out again. I checked the terminals to see if I mismatched the wires, but I didn't. Out of curiosity I decide just to bypass the fuse by touching the fuse clamps together, and the headlight came on without the key in the ignition and would not cut off. I know the light doesn't have a relay because the headlight cuts off as soon as I cut off the scooter. I also notice a weird smell like burning plastic and a tiny amount of smoke as I touched the clamps together, which leads me to believe that there may be a short somewhere.
The scooter seems to run just fine when I kickstart it but I would like to get the battery back in so I don't wear out the kickstart... (It is a bit fragile). Does anyone have any idea as to what may be causing this? When I bought the scooter, the previous owner said that it had "electrical problems" that he had fixed. Any ideas as to where I should start looking.
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Post by Yelloscoot on Jan 18, 2012 23:22:29 GMT -5
What kind of scoot is it?
How long have you had it?. If for a while, any previous symptoms of a low battery?
Electrical problems are a methodical fix, many times from the circuit to the device. My experience in automotive 12v was not always fun.
But yes, 12v is grounding out through a badwire, frame maybe, or through another circuit. The smell of something burning is a very good indication.
Check for continuity on a meter. When/ if you think you have found and fixed the problem, replace your fuse with a low amp(3 or so) if it blows, you still have a short. Or use a test light as a fuse, if it glows, you still have a short. Also check with the amp setting on a meter, shoud read zero. If you don't have a meter, get one.
A little more info please.
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Post by lazerorca on Jan 18, 2012 23:32:17 GMT -5
I have had it for about 5 months now. The reason I bought a new battery was because it is slowly getting where it would not crank from the electric starter.
It is a 50 cc gray chinese scooter. Outside of that, I am not sure. I was rebuilt and has a 60 cc motor in it now.
Another weird thing that has recently happened in the last month is that the speedometer isn't working... The needle doesn't register my speed and the mileage dial isn't turning. The gas needle fluctuates wildly and tends to go up when I rev the motor
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Post by Yelloscoot on Jan 18, 2012 23:48:49 GMT -5
Modified my first post some. Other members will also have ideas, another from me,... the rectifier/regulator. They're probably sitting back to see if I screw this one up, laughing their @$$'s off... If you're smelling somethimg burning, expect to be pulling off the plastics for diagnosis and repair to the harness somewhere though. If the harness is totaly fried, get a new one and rewire.
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Post by mainepeace on Jan 18, 2012 23:57:22 GMT -5
Burning plastic isn't a good sign. It means it's already burned, whatever the problem.
I would say there is a short somewhere. The fuse is there to protect the electronics. Shunting the fuse means the power goes through whatever was going to fry before, and just fried.
The speedometer is most likely mechanical. Check the back of the speedometer if the cable is loose. Then check the speedo "puck" on the front wheel. Many times there is a bent ring in it. A ring is on the inside of the puck and it engages a notch in the front rim. Many times the front tire is just mounted without properly lining up the ring with the notch and it gets bent, eventually coming loose. You just need to bend the tabs back out and properly align it. The last thing is to check the cable itself to see if its broken.
Track down the burnt plastic. That is where the short is. Replace whatever got burned and then move on to the next thing. My guess is the short in the wiring harness is what caused the lights and other stuff to work with the ignition key off. Follow your nose.
Greg
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Post by imnts2 on Jan 19, 2012 0:16:39 GMT -5
It is simple. Never bypass a fuse. The fuse being blown tells you something. Ther previous owner told you something. If you are not willing to learn electricity, you are doomed to troubleshooting by guessing. If you do not know what a VOM is an how to use it, you need to learn - if you want to troubleshoot this thing. Greg is a good guy and he may get you there. He is probably is correct that the short is where the pubnt plastic is.
But I think you have a choice. Focus on getting richer, focus on maybe fixing this lemon or focus on really learning electricity.
Good luck
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Post by lazerorca on Jan 19, 2012 8:17:12 GMT -5
Well I have all of this weekend where I can tinker with this thing. As for my extent of knowledge on this sort of thing, it is pretty low. I'm somewhat mechanically inclined (experience in computer repair and solder work to game consoles) and my knowledge of electricity is very rudimentary.
I have a very basic tool kit with metric and american customary sockets, and an screwdriver that I can interchange bits with. Should I need any other tool before I start tinkering?
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Post by TERRA NUVO on Jan 19, 2012 15:35:26 GMT -5
post engine number, cc's and manu's name in your signature in profiles page for best answers.
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Post by dinogy6 on Jan 19, 2012 21:57:23 GMT -5
Its a "dead short"so as mentioned you have a positive wire to earth (negitive),don't proceed much further untill you find it from memory its a large fuse (rating wise),the looms are cheap to buy and not that flash,check all connections which may require stripping off body work to get there ,good luck.
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Post by lazerorca on Jan 19, 2012 23:28:03 GMT -5
So can I get the wire harness from the auto parts store or will I need to order something specific, if it is in fact the harness? tomorrow I'm pulling off the body to tinker around. I have an old voltmeter.
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Post by mainepeace on Jan 19, 2012 23:54:17 GMT -5
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Post by dinogy6 on Jan 20, 2012 0:48:34 GMT -5
I'am kind of worried about your comment that the PO had sorted the electrical "problems" thats why I mentioned another loom. Read up on how your meter works and set it to continuity,that means that when you touch the 2 leads together the audible alarm will go off. Find your positive side red ( +) of the battery or any other positive lead and put the negitive side black (-) on your frame of the scooter ,you will need to scratch the paint off to get a good contact,if the tester beeps you have a dead short. Just keep going and find all the power supplies to various parts parts of your scooter and disconnect the high load items first like the starter, headlight,etc you will find it. Sorry if this is a little hard to understand but I have done this and can't rmember all of it as it was a while back but it worked for me.
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Post by lazerorca on Jan 20, 2012 10:13:08 GMT -5
thanks for the info
the plate near the center kickstand says 2008 taizhou chuanl... The guy I bought it from said that it had a 60cc motor in it, but it originally had a 50cc motor. I'm about to take the plastic body off and take a look around. I'm curious to see if there is any melting and so on. As for a harness, if I need to buy one, can I buy one at my local auto parts store? and is there a wiring schematic that comes with it?
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Post by lazerorca on Jan 20, 2012 10:25:45 GMT -5
I just called all of the local shops and they said that they didn't have wiring harnesses.
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Post by Yelloscoot on Jan 20, 2012 10:42:34 GMT -5
The chance of finding a scooter harness at your "local" auto parts, ie Pep Boys, Auto Zone, are slim to none. Your chain stores will only carry maintenance parts, fuel filter, oil, plug etc. Any thing else check with forum sponsors and online. Members will also offer sites from their experience.
Check Greg's link above @ Mainley Scooters, they take you to two different harnesses he carries, possibly more.
I haven't checked out his entire E-Store yet and he's always adding new product
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Post by lazerorca on Jan 20, 2012 10:50:57 GMT -5
That is the can of worms that I am looking at right now. lots of electrical tape and frayed/exposed wires
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Post by burnsscoot on Jan 20, 2012 11:05:29 GMT -5
Exposed wire is definately a problem. I'm sure you'll find one(at least) that's contacting the frame somewhere, and that's what's blowing the fuse.
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Post by lazerorca on Jan 20, 2012 11:30:14 GMT -5
I just discovered a new problem... When I kick start it (no battery attached)... The turn signal doesn't blink anymore. it lights up, but no blinking
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Post by burnsscoot on Jan 20, 2012 11:34:45 GMT -5
You may be better off just getting a new harness, since there appears to be some real hack wiring that was done by the PO. It'll be much less of a headache.
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Post by Yelloscoot on Jan 20, 2012 11:39:19 GMT -5
Not to mention, much more reliable. Check with Greg and "Git-er Done" The sooner you start the sooner its finished, its already too late to ship this weekend. Your first chance is Monday for shipping. So burnsscoot...does that name come from experience? If so, then, lazer, you need to learn from his.
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Post by lazerorca on Jan 20, 2012 11:42:27 GMT -5
so without hooking up the battery... how am I supposed to find a short with a multimeter? how am I going to do this without penetrating the insulation?
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Post by Scooter Elements on Jan 20, 2012 11:43:40 GMT -5
You may be better off just getting a new harness, since there appears to be some real hack wiring that was done by the PO. It'll be much less of a headache. I was Having electrical problems on my scooter for a long time and i ended up changing out the entire wire harness on my scooter and now everything works great. Talk with Greg and hopefully he has the scooter harness you need.
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Post by Yelloscoot on Jan 20, 2012 11:50:36 GMT -5
You can still test for continuity for ground, but from the photo, your going to have ALOT more grounds than you should. Just get a new harness. If I'm correct, please correct me if I wrong anyone, a new harness isn't the entire harness. Just the main one than covers most of the system but ends where the individual harnesses, take over, then just plug into them , ie headlights, tail/brake/turn etc.
Not as hard as it sounds because your not going to each individual light or component, just to it's harness. If your plastic is alreay off, could be a snap to do. Zip tie things back in place. Maybe add some addional padding where rubbung could/could have occured.
Just don't do another HACK job like the PO did. Make it clean and neat and this could be the last time you have to di it.
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Post by lazerorca on Jan 20, 2012 11:56:51 GMT -5
well I have been staring at it all morning on my day off this week looking for frayed/exposed wires either touching one another or touching the frame. from what I can see, I don't see anything. It looks like a complete mess and i am not sure where to begin. There isn't a scooter repair shop around... at least in scooter driving range. Closest one is 40 miles away and I haven't ever attempted a ride that long.
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Post by Yelloscoot on Jan 20, 2012 12:04:32 GMT -5
It was a hack job to begin with, don't expect to find much and staring doesn't work. Walk away for half an hour, clear your head. Then go back and look again. That helps, but it won't get a NEW harness to you any quicker this weekend. Get with Greg.
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Post by Scooter Elements on Jan 20, 2012 12:09:23 GMT -5
You can still test for continuity for ground, but from the photo, your going to have ALOT more grounds than you should. Just get a new harness. If I'm correct, please correct me if I wrong anyone, a new harness isn't the entire harness. Just the main one than covers most of the system but ends where the individual harnesses, take over, then just plug into them , ie headlights, tail/brake/turn etc. Not as hard as it sounds because your not going to each individual light or component, just to it's harness. If your plastic is alreay off, could be a snap to do. Zip tie things back in place. Maybe add some addional padding where rubbung could/could have occured. Just don't do another HACK job like the PO did. Make it clean and neat and this could be the last time you have to di it. The harness i bought for my scooter was a complete harness from the tail lights to the dash. It was two harnesses that connected behind the headlights but it came complete. Not sure how others sell it but i bought that one in another store here in PR
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Post by burnsscoot on Jan 20, 2012 12:11:35 GMT -5
Yelloscoot is right. Staring won't help, and having no reference point makes it that much more difficult. Get with Greg and get a new one on order.
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Post by lazerorca on Jan 20, 2012 12:28:23 GMT -5
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Post by Scooter Elements on Jan 20, 2012 12:36:23 GMT -5
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Post by mainepeace on Jan 20, 2012 23:53:53 GMT -5
You just need to look at the connectors and see if they fit. They are the biggest issue. The generic wiring harness will fit the standard generic Chinese made scooter, Roketa, Peace Sports, Sunl, Bashan, etc. Just look at the connectors you have and replace it, connector for connector. There is only one connector that may be different, and that is the connector to the stator (5 wire) which can vary as there are two main stator connectors used. They are identical in function. You just need to cut off and use the old connector. I'll step you through it if you have an issue. Greg
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