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Post by intothedeadsky on Dec 14, 2011 20:18:52 GMT -5
So...Ive been hearing about these "secret 63's"...50cc's that are actually 63cc's. Does anyone have one, and how can you tell if you have one or not? I have a Peace Sports 50cc VIP. I swapped out the crappy fuel /vac lines, as well as the vacuum petcock. Other than that, changing the oil to synth, as well as the gear oil...its all stock. I weigh 179, and my scoot will do 43-51 mph (GPS). Is this normal??? Can someone enlighten me on this mystery? Do i have a Secret 63? Or just a fast 50cc? Dead  Attachments:
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Post by Pony66 on Dec 14, 2011 21:01:51 GMT -5
Look at your engine stamp for 1P39QMB. If so, look on top of the engine case by the tire for 6b. Its not 100% but usually those stamps indicate a Secret 63.
The only 100% way is to take the head off and measure the piston.
But sounds like you have a nice scooter. Changing those lines will ward off half the problems of your scooter.
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Post by freedomscoot on Dec 14, 2011 23:07:14 GMT -5
I'd say you definitely have one, with those speeds. A real 50 wouldn't do more than 35-40.
If you can do the speeds you stated without any mods, you got a heck of a good scoot!
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Post by mainepeace on Dec 15, 2011 13:52:54 GMT -5
2010 Peace Sports VIP's were almost ALL secret 63's. Not sure about the 2011's.
Greg
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Post by intothedeadsky on Dec 15, 2011 21:28:07 GMT -5
ahhh...
I HAVE ONE!!! 6b stamp on the top of the case.
I wasnt kidding about those speeds either. I was wondering why my scooter was so fast, being all stock.
Im thinking of buying that stage 1 scooter kit, the one with the bigger jet, and the intake...
Ive only had my scoot for about 2 weeks now, and i absoloutely love it. Living in FL makes it easier on me too during the winter.
Thanks Greg, as always, for the info.
Dead
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Post by Pony66 on Dec 15, 2011 23:08:52 GMT -5
ahhh... I HAVE ONE!!! 6b stamp on the top of the case. I wasnt kidding about those speeds either. I was wondering why my scooter was so fast, being all stock. Im thinking of buying that stage 1 scooter kit, the one with the bigger jet, and the intake... Ive only had my scoot for about 2 weeks now, and i absoloutely love it. Living in FL makes it easier on me too during the winter. Thanks Greg, as always, for the info. Dead Go for the jet but keep your air box. Yours is running well but lightening your roller weights in the Variator is usually a good early mod. It will raise your RPMs a bit. Glad your lovin your scooter. |
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blitztek
Big Dawg
Blitz Moped B&M Tech
Posts: 24
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Post by blitztek on Dec 16, 2011 1:22:22 GMT -5
That is a secret 63. I wouldn't go big bore, a 72cc kit won't net you a whole lot more. and some of those came with 6.5g rollers. Almost a perfect tuned scooter. I know because we had two customers that bought different scoots from us that knew each other. Needless to say, the one with the BOSS 50 (true 50) was rather peeved that his scooter did 30, and his friend's VIP did 45. Not our fault as the dealer, we sell them as the manufacturer states that they do 30. But still... I own a 63cc 2009 Peace Sports B-09
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Post by mainepeace on Dec 16, 2011 1:52:12 GMT -5
Cool, a scooter shop in Deep Ellum! Staggered my way home on more than one occasion... wonder if my friend's bar "The Wall" is still there?
Greg
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Post by intothedeadsky on Dec 16, 2011 13:07:02 GMT -5
When i was a kid i used to hang out in deep ellum !!
I remember there being a record shop named Last Beat Records.
GPS last night, downhill, said 54 mph.
I actually passed a car, albeit briefly...lol
Im deciding about the big bore kit still.
Sunday im tattooing a guy i found on Craigslist for some rims and tires, as well as an aftermarket exaust. Mine are new, but crappy Chinese tires, and steelie looking rims. Im going to paint the rims glossy black, and probably pull all my plastics and sasnd the lettering off and repaint them as well. The rear fender is getting deleted, and im relocating the turn siginals also.
So, why should i keep the stock airbox?
Please advise?
Dead
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Post by larry001964 on Dec 16, 2011 13:32:56 GMT -5
When i was a kid i used to hang out in deep ellum !! I remember there being a record shop named Last Beat Records. GPS last night, downhill, said 54 mph. I actually passed a car, albeit briefly...lol Im deciding about the big bore kit still. Sunday im tattooing a guy i found on Craigslist for some rims and tires, as well as an aftermarket exaust. Mine are new, but crappy Chinese tires, and steelie looking rims. Im going to paint the rims glossy black, and probably pull all my plastics and sasnd the lettering off and repaint them as well. The rear fender is getting deleted, and im relocating the turn siginals also. So, why should i keep the stock airbox? Please advise? Dead I agree keep your air box. it provides great protection from dirt and water, and provides the correct amount of restriction creating a slight vacuum that operates the diaphragm in your carb.. I used a piece of flex pipe to lower my restriction on mine but I can still easily contol how much restriction is needed with the box by drilling more holes if needed... Hope it helps, well off to work take care |
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Post by mainepeace on Dec 17, 2011 0:18:56 GMT -5
The biggest reason to keep the airbox is because of the VOLUME it encases. The intake tract from the air filter through the carb to the valves is specifically designed to fill the combustion chamber as efficiently as possible. This is not not just by lowering the restriction, but making it have a specific vacuum curve throughout the RPM range. A perfectly designed engine has an intake plenum that is a solid multiple of the combustion chamber size. This is because as the air gets sucked into the intake it hits the valves when they snap shut and a pressure wave is reflected back into the intake tract. As it reflects, eventually it reaches a "barrier" and reflects back. The "barrier" doesn't necessarily need to be a wall, it can just be the end of the carburetor venturi.
A properly designed engine will take advantage of the reflected pressure wave to help fill the combustion chamber on the next cycle (or as long as it takes for the pressure wave to reflect). That is just in regards to the LENGTH of the intake and plenum.
The VOLUME is important because as the air is sucked/reflected back into the intake and into the combustion chamber you want it to be JUST enough to properly fill the chamber. Too much and wasted air needs to be stopped and reflected back, colliding with air on the next pressure pulse and lowering efficiency. Not enough air and it is not getting the full benefit of the pressure wave.
Greg
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Post by falln2pieces on Jan 4, 2012 22:06:19 GMT -5
I actually ended up with one of these and didnt even realize it till I took my chinses scooter in for a big bore kit.
I honestly thought till then that me doing an average of 48mph at WOT was the result of an upjet to an #85 main, a cdi, new ignition coil a uni air filter.
If I would have known this before, i would have never bothered with the BBK, and just changed my roller weights and vaiator.
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Post by yensid77 on Jan 4, 2012 22:16:49 GMT -5
I have a 80cc kit on my VIP if you would like to see if there is a difference some time since you are in the same area. Nice to see another Orlando rider out there. Happy scooting man.
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Post by dongo2u2 on Jan 7, 2012 22:59:54 GMT -5
I'm glad I jumped on here and read this. A week ago I bought a 2008 TPGS-840 that is a Peace VIP model, but with the over and under headlights. With 712 miles on it and a clean body I picked it up fpr $375 and was wondering why it would get up to 43 (GPS) and now I guess I know. The engine stamp is the 1P39QMB. I'm a happy camper.  So far I've changed the engine oil, the gear box oil and the spark plug (NGK C7HSA now) and am currently looking for a new fuel filter locally. Once I change the fuel filter and the fuel and vacuum lines I think I'll just let her be other than possibly the sliders in the CVT. I do have a question though. When accelerating I seem to pick up speed fairly fast, but once I get up to about 30mph, I accelerate faster by not being WOT, only about 80-90%. If I stay WOT, it'll pick up but really, really slowly. (As a note, at WOT at full speed the tach indicates about 9500rpm's if it matters.) Is this indicative of something I could adjust? I've tweaked the carb a little (max RPM's on A/F mixture screw, idle screw adjusted until the wheel rolls, then back off a little) but I'm wondering (and haven't touched) the valves. Would they cause this or does anyone have an idea? Greg? Thanks in advance.... |
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Post by Pony66 on Jan 9, 2012 9:50:17 GMT -5
I'm glad I jumped on here and read this. A week ago I bought a 2008 TPGS-840 that is a Peace VIP model, but with the over and under headlights. With 712 miles on it and a clean body I picked it up fpr $375 and was wondering why it would get up to 43 (GPS) and now I guess I know. The engine stamp is the 1P39QMB. I'm a happy camper. So far I've changed the engine oil, the gear box oil and the spark plug (NGK C7HSA now) and am currently looking for a new fuel filter locally. Once I change the fuel filter and the fuel and vacuum lines I think I'll just let her be other than possibly the sliders in the CVT. I do have a question though. When accelerating I seem to pick up speed fairly fast, but once I get up to about 30mph, I accelerate faster by not being WOT, only about 80-90%. If I stay WOT, it'll pick up but really, really slowly. (As a note, at WOT at full speed the tach indicates about 9500rpm's if it matters.) Is this indicative of something I could adjust? I've tweaked the carb a little (max RPM's on A/F mixture screw, idle screw adjusted until the wheel rolls, then back off a little) but I'm wondering (and haven't touched) the valves. Would they cause this or does anyone have an idea? Greg? Thanks in advance.... The TaoTao and other scooters come running lean. They respond well to a little larger main jet. You could try and lower the clip on the needle under the big cap on top of the carb. That richens the mix during mid range. |
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Post by dongo2u2 on Jan 9, 2012 19:25:59 GMT -5
Thanks Pony. I'll give that a try and if that doesn't help, upjet in the near future. I appreciate the response.
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Post by robert777 on Jan 11, 2012 13:12:32 GMT -5
make sure you have right plug, dealer put a NGK C7HSA in mine but it needed a C R7HSA! (has a resistor in it) Attachments:
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Post by dongo2u2 on Jan 14, 2012 23:37:34 GMT -5
I went ahead and put a 85 jet in and it seems to have helped my midrange. I just wish it would warm back up. These high 30/low 40 degree mornings make it take quite awhile to warm up and run good. I also have a slight "stumnle" (more heard than felt) at idle than I would like. Any ideas anyone?
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Post by Pony66 on Jan 14, 2012 23:42:37 GMT -5
Im glad that #85 worked out for you.
Did you re-adjust your A/F mix after the new main jet? You might try again after letting it get well warm. In the winter the cold air and cold fuel can add quite a bit of warm up time.
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Post by mainepeace on Jan 15, 2012 1:56:02 GMT -5
Sorry, missed the thread earlier.
If you are accelerating faster at part throttle then the fuel curve isn't right. As Pony mentioned, the carb is probably lean. I'm glad the 85 jet helped out. Being a 2008, your carb probably has adjustments for the needle. There is a c-clip on the end of the needle. You can find it by removing the TOP (gold or plastic circle on top) and pulling out the diahpragm and needle. On the needle there are 3 or 5 slots. A LOWER slot, closer to the TIP of the needle will richen it during part throttle. A HIGHER slot will lean it out. It will affect WOT minimally, depending on the shape of the needle. Other needle shapes are available that have different fuel curves.
The stumbling at idle may be related to the idle adjustment you made, assuming it was not stumbling before.
Colder weather means your carb needs MORE gas, so the stumbling could be caused by a lean condition. This can be alleviated by turning the A/F screw a tiny bit COUNTERCLOCKWISE. If you can't adjust it enough, you may need a larger jet.
Before you mess with the A/F screw you need to record where it is so you can reset it. Turn it CLOCKWISE until it stops, and count exactly how many turns. Then back it out to 2 1/2 turns. From there, turn it in 1/4 turn increments, wait 20 seconds between tries. You want the highest idle *just before* the rear wheel turns. Once it starts turning, turn the A/F screw 1/4 turn CLOCKWISE.
The idle adjustment screw is completely different from the A/F screw. The idle screw is the "closed stop" for the throttle plate. If after adjusting the A/F screw the idle is higher than you want, you adjust the idle screw in 1/8 turn increments until it's the speed you want. You need to re-adjust the A/F screw again. It's a dance between the two to get a properly adjusted carb.
The only way to check if the engine is running properly at idle is to pull the spark plug and read it. The engine may *sound* ok but it may be a bit lean or rich, which will affect takeoff.
The A/F screw only really affects idle up to about 1/8 throttle. The idle jet affects up to 1/4 throttle. The midrange from 1/4 to 7/8 affected by the needle position in conjunction with the main jet. The main jet itself affects WOT. Of course there are many complexities to the relationships but this is a basic primer.
Greg
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Post by dongo2u2 on Jan 16, 2012 22:56:37 GMT -5
Pony and Greg thank you both. I did readjust the A/F mixture after I had installed the 85 main jet. I also had opened the top of the carb and pulled the diaphragm and needle prior to that and found that I did not have a c-clip on my needle so raising or lowering it was not an option, hence the 85 jet installation. When I installed the new jet I completely dis-assembled the carb and cleaned it thoroughly and did find a brownish dirt or chalky residue in the float bowl that I cleaned out as well as blasting each passageway with the carb cleaner and compressed air. Since then I have adjusted the carb with the A/F mixture screw (as per your suggestions Greg) but she still stumbles slightly and I'm wondering about the 85 being large enough, but I think my next move is just to acquire a new carb. (As an aside, when I bought the 85 it was that or jump to a 90 which I thought might be to large. I acquired this locally and that is why I had the limited choices here in Charleston, SC. I think I'll go back and get the 90 and try it before ordering a new carb.) She runs good, but seems to stumble at weird times so I'll keep wrenching on it until I get her right. I appreciate your guys (and gals) assistance and the wealth of information on this site.
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Post by mainepeace on Jan 16, 2012 23:10:56 GMT -5
When it stumbles, you really should pull the plug to see if you are lean or rich. Text descriptions of an audio sound are not always accurate, so it could actually be something else causing the stumble.
Definitely, the brown crud was preventing the carb from working properly. It's hard to say whether it is completely cleaned out, which is why I always recommend to replace the carb. With as much time spent on cleaning and cursing over a carb (not to mention carb cleaner at $8 a can) it ends up being easier/cheaper to get a new one that has all the adjustments you require. Good thing that most of the time the jets do swap between similar carbs.
Greg
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Post by larrball on Jan 17, 2012 10:21:57 GMT -5
My VIP has ran great with no problems for right about 3 years. (true 50 cc) The only thing im not a big fan of when it's cold out, is what most all 2009 and up GY6 stock carb's have and that's the accelerator pump that will flood the cylinder if you have the A/F mix too rich and you twist the throttle before you fire it up. Bad thing is that the new 2011-12 scooters have a plug on the A/f mix that can keep you in a bind when you need to tune her up for your altitude. (Thank's EPA big help there... &#$*!)  But then im just nick- pickin because it does come in handy when the engine is to temp, and the light turns green Poor mans fuel injection? LOL |
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Post by mikeb42 on Sept 21, 2012 15:53:35 GMT -5
Quick question? i have a Tao Tao ATM50 - A1 2012, do u guys think its a secret 63? 1p39qmp engine, ive looked for the stamp and nothing there, it does betwwen 35 and 40 M.P.H on warm to hot days here in New Mexico, ive got 6g sliders and a Kehin carb, Thanks
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Post by mikeb42 on Sept 21, 2012 15:56:41 GMT -5
Also im looking for a BBK for my tao tao Atm50 what is the best one to choose?
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