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Post by cameratester on Dec 11, 2011 14:09:46 GMT -5
I have a TaoTao ATM50-A1 50cc scooter. It's been giving me problems since day one that I bought it. I got the problems fixed, it needed a new carburetor and a fuel pump. It was running fine. Until about the time I changed the oil and adjusted the idle (at the same time). Ever since I did, the scooter has these problems: It takes a long time to actually make a spark and start the engine, I guess it needs a spark plug, I'm certain it does. When it finally starts and I let it get warmed up, when I try to start going, every time I turn the throttle to move, it dies down, and it does that a lot, but after a little while, it runs kinda ok It never goes top speed, I can feel it holding back from what it can actually do. It goes awfully slow. I took the scooter to a scooter repair place and he adjusted my idle to where it was supposed to be. But it's reeeaally low, but he said that's it's supposed to make the tire spin just a tiny bit, but I feel that it's really low. But anyways. He also said I had the perfect amount of oil in the scooter. Yesterday, I had someone work on it because of those problems. He saw that the fuel filter was below the fuel pump, and the fuel filter was hanging down, so the gas had a weird path to go through, a U shaped path. He said that since it was below the fuel pump, the engine was sucking air when it's trying to suck gas, until the gas gets in the fuel filter. He noticed that when it was below the fuel pump, it didn't fill up fast and he said it was sucking air. But when he put it above the fuel pump, so the path was a straight path (well kinda diagonal, but straight) and not like a U shape like it was before, which was weird, and the gas wasn't getting to the engine right, or that's what I assume is right. was that a bad mistake to put the fuel filter above the fuel pump? Or should it be below? The reason I ask if it should be below is because today, when I tried to ride it, I couldn't go anywhere, it would start moving, and then it would die down, like before, but this was way worse. I had to turn around and go back home, and I couldn't get it to go faster than like 3 miles per hour! when I tried to go higher, it would die down. One question I have is what spark plug I need for this scooter because I know I need a spark plug. And will that fix the scooters problems or some of them? What can I to to fix this? What seems to be the problems? Thanks for any help!  |
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Post by mainepeace on Dec 11, 2011 19:57:29 GMT -5
It doesn't have a fuel pump. It has a gravity operated petcock. The way you are describing it you have a separate petcock that is inline with the fuel filter. What he is saying ("sucks air") is completely wrong. The carb can't suck in air unless there is a leak or the gas tank is empty. When the line is full of gas it doesn't matter as much if there is extra tubing that makes it bend around a U or not as long as it flows properly. It DOES prefer a straighter pathway from the fuel tank to the carb but it is not absolutely critical if there are issues like frame components or other things in the way.
If the carb IS sucking in air (like when the scooter is shut off then restarted later) it's because the fuel is slowly draining down the line which it should not do. That means a seal or a valve is slightly leaking. While not critical for operation either, it's an annoyance for restarting the scooter.
Here is my recommendation:
Replace the fuel and vacuum lines with good quality clear line so you can see what's going on.
Replace the fuel filter with a good one that costs more than $2.
Replace the fuel petcock as it's most likely leaking.
Replace the spark plug with a NGK C7HSA or CR7HIX
Check the diaphragm in the carburetor to make sure there isn't a tear or a leak
If you pull the spark plug when it dies you can tell if you are too lean or too rich. I would guess you are too LEAN and there is an air leak somewhere or the tear in the diaphragm is cutting off fuel. Also clean the carburetor again, as it can get clogged easily even if it's new.
Greg
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Post by vince on Dec 11, 2011 20:15:09 GMT -5
toe toes are known for pet cock problems and u need to get rid of the one on the bottom of the tank that should take care of your problem talk to eldrif he knows more about it then i do
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Post by cameratester on Dec 11, 2011 22:28:27 GMT -5
EDIT: NOT SOLVED!
Well I may be speaking too soon, but I think the problem is solved, or some of the problems. As we were troubleshooting, we were checking for a clogged tube, the tube leading to the fuel filter from the tank, and we unplugged it and gas came out pretty fast, so we saw that it wasn't clogged, but after we put it back on and turned on the scooter, the fuel filter was being filled with gas, which it wasn't hardly at all before. So we concluded that there was something in the tube blocking the gas from getting in the fuel filter. I rode it around for a few minutes, and it was running fine. It wasn't holding back from going top speed from what I noticed, which was a very good thing, and it didn't die down when I turned the throttle, it was running great!
The only thing I can think of that might be wrong is the spark plug, but I'm begging to wonder if there is anything wrong with it. It does take a little while to actually get the engine going - I try to start it and it just makes the starting noise, but the engine doesn't run until after about 5-10 seconds. I'll have to check tomorrow to see if this fix we did will help it start better now. I'm also thinking that it has a hard time starting because of the cold weather, and that could also be affecting the running of the scooter.
Thanks for your help! I'll update this if I have anymore issues. Thank you!
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Post by cameratester on Dec 11, 2011 22:30:58 GMT -5
And hahaha I always thought it was a fuel pump, not a gravity operated petcock. Searching google images for scooter fuel pump and scooter petcock shows the same part. What is the difference between the two? And that's new info! Thanks for that, I've been educated!
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Post by mainepeace on Dec 11, 2011 22:35:44 GMT -5
The petcock is just a valve, the pump actually pumps fuel. Unless your gas tank is in the floorboards your 50 does not have a fuel pump. Many of the larger 150 or 250's have fuel pumps even with a high mounted gas tank.
Check the ground wires for any corrosion. It would cause the same hard start issue.
Greg
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Post by buiditright on Dec 11, 2011 22:43:54 GMT -5
Greg is 100 percent correct. My xspeed has a fuel pump because of the tank being in the floor. My motophino has a fuel VALVE it does not pump fuel. I think that if you pull the plug and find it is a TORCH plug that will be some of your trouble.
Flash
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blitztek
Big Dawg
Blitz Moped B&M Tech
Posts: 24
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Post by blitztek on Dec 12, 2011 1:31:48 GMT -5
is there any correlation between temperature? The epa carbs on 2011 scooters are a PITA. When it get's cold, most of my scooters wont run right, at least until I up the jets a little.
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Post by mainepeace on Dec 12, 2011 13:19:17 GMT -5
Yes. When it gets colder it requires more gas for a proper mix as the air is denser and colder. The new carbs are jetted lean, too lean for hot weather, and definitely too lean for when it is cold.
Greg
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Post by cameratester on Dec 12, 2011 14:09:10 GMT -5
Thanks for the info everyone. Just a question. Is the fuel filter supposed to be filled with gas, or just a little bit? It's only filled with about 1/4 or 1/3 of gas when it's running. I've noticed today when I was testing it out, that when I'd turn the throttle, it still died down just for a second, but then it started going, and it did that a lot. What can I do to fix this?
And would adjusting the idle a little higher fix this? It's low because the guy at the motorsports place said that it had to be set so the back wheel spins just a tiny bit. But it's extremely low.
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Post by mainepeace on Dec 12, 2011 17:04:56 GMT -5
The idle *should* be set where the back tire JUST starts to spin. For most scooters that's around 1800 RPMs. It seems your clutch might engage a bit sooner. It's more a safety thing so the scooter doesn't take off when it's on the side stand and idling, not that it's safe to do that either.
If it's dying when you *just* turn the throttle, it means your idle jet is still a bit small. Turning the A/F mixture a bit richer will help.
Setting the IDLE with the A/F mixture screw and with the throttle plate stop are two different things. You can have the mix set properly with the idle higher or lower. It's a dance between the A/F screw and the idle stop as one affects the other. Eventually you'll find a balance with a good idle AND the rear tire not spinning.
Greg
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Post by cameratester on Dec 12, 2011 22:21:51 GMT -5
Hmm. That's good info. Thank you! And where would the A/F screw be, and how do I adjust it? - How many turns and which direction?
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Post by cameratester on Dec 12, 2011 22:58:39 GMT -5
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Post by cameratester on Dec 18, 2011 17:40:06 GMT -5
Uh where to start. The scooter is still running bad. We've come to the conclusion that the scooter isn't getting gas as it should, which would explain why it doesn't start and cuts off a lot, and when I try to accelerate, the scooter cuts off. It may be the petcock, but that was brand new just a few months ago.
The guy who has been helping me says that the petcock could be bad, and he has an idea of taking it off and not using it anymore, but is that possible not to use it, and if so, how?
I went out to ride it today, and I was riding for a minute and stopped, and the engine got really quiet and then cut off, and it never started after, I tried the push button start and kick start but it just didn't turn on. It made the starting noise, but never actually got the engine running. So I am just stuck on what to do.
What could be causing the problem? And what could I do to fix this? I'm almost positive the scooter isn't getting gas as it should. So what could I do to fix it?
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Post by cameratester on Dec 19, 2011 0:06:25 GMT -5
I still need help. May someone please help me? Thank you!
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Post by Pony66 on Dec 19, 2011 10:14:25 GMT -5
Uh where to start. The scooter is still running bad. We've come to the conclusion that the scooter isn't getting gas as it should, which would explain why it doesn't start and cuts off a lot, and when I try to accelerate, the scooter cuts off. It may be the petcock, but that was brand new just a few months ago. The guy who has been helping me says that the petcock could be bad, and he has an idea of taking it off and not using it anymore, but is that possible not to use it, and if so, how? I went out to ride it today, and I was riding for a minute and stopped, and the engine got really quiet and then cut off, and it never started after, I tried the push button start and kick start but it just didn't turn on. It made the starting noise, but never actually got the engine running. So I am just stuck on what to do. What could be causing the problem? And what could I do to fix this? I'm almost positive the scooter isn't getting gas as it should. So what could I do to fix it? It still sounds like the petcock. They get debris because the filter is after the petcock. Take off the vacuum line going to petcock and blow and suck many times. You can stop when gas flows well out the gas line, not dribble but flow. Also, think about replacing your fuel line with clear yellow Tygon fuel line. It will not break down and clog your carb like black rubber. You can just look and see how your fuel is flowing. |
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Post by cameratester on Dec 19, 2011 19:51:38 GMT -5
Turns out the petcock wasnt the problem. All this time it was the spark plug. We had difficulty getting it out because we didn't think we had the right spark plug socket, but after calling a scooter place, and them telling us it was a 5/8 socket we needed, we happened to find the EXACT one and it worked, so we took it out, and the spark plug was DEFINITELY the problem, it was all black and melted and ugly looking. So we bought a new one and it runs Great! Starts up perfectly! Also we adjusted the A/F mixture screw and it runs so good!
Thanks for the help everyone! I hope I'm not speaking too soon about it being fixed!
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Post by tron702 on Dec 29, 2011 2:29:53 GMT -5
How did you adjust your A/F Mixture, if I'm not mistaken, the A/F mixture on Tao Tao 49cc are blocked and can't be adjusted unless you drill a screw that holds a plate that covers the A/F mixture screw.
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Post by mainepeace on Dec 29, 2011 17:01:27 GMT -5
Depends on the year. Up to 2008 normal carb. In 2009 they started plugging the a/f screw that is removable. In 2011 they went to a full tamper proof carb.
Greg
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