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Post by scootnwinn on Sept 18, 2011 16:24:53 GMT -5
I was upgrading my drive belt to a Gates Power link and looked on line for a"how to". Most of what I found only showed an abbreviated method and this youtube video: www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBHAM1am-UEIs basically fictitious as it is no where near that easy. So in all reality this is how the belt is changed: 1. Park the scoot on the center stand on a stable flat surface 2. Remove all the lower plastics that are in the way (your scoot is different unless its the same ) A lot of these pieces have tabs that you have to pull back and down not just down. If you need something to pry it loose you probably are doing it wrong ;D . 3. Remove all the bolts on the CVT cover and the kickstart lever there is also a couple holding the airbox to the CVT. You will need to spread the kickstart clamp with a screwdriver and hammer to open it. There are tabs on the cover you will need to use to pry the cover loose Gently remove the cover and you can keep all the bolts in the right place like this Note it takes a fair amount of careful but firm pressure to get this loose I used a hammer and huge screwdriver hitting the butt of the screwdriver with gentle taps with a 1.5 pound framing hammer. Tie the airbox out of your way. 4. You'll need a little spacer to keep the variator in position when the belt is off. I made one from a piece of pipe. Measure the size with the new belt Then cut it it goes on the front pulley after the next step. 5. Remove old belt. Its no where near as easy as the video above makes it look. You need a lot of pressure to open the pulley on the back and push the belt into it. pinch the belt to push it all the way inthen pull the belt off the front pulley I pulled it off the bottom of the pulley not the top. This is the hard part. The belt must be all the way against the axle on the rear or it won't come off. then pull it off the back. Make sure the front is wedged open. 6. Put new belt on. This is also quite difficult you need to have the clutch assembly on the back fully open and I started the belt on the top and then gently pried the belt,and pushed with my hand, and turned the front pulley with a very large screwdriver ( gently). If you're going to break something this is the best time so be careful. Rough up the new belt. The fan has a very sharp edge on it don't turn it with anything but the fan blades or there will be blood. Start the bike and rev it a bit to take up the slack from the belt. 7. Reassemble. Pretty straight forward except most likely you destroyed the gasket when you took the cover off. My CVT case filter came loose so I used some gasket sealant to keep it all in place and make it possible to remove it later. You'll need to clean the whole surface of the cover and case with a blade and a very mild abrasive (sand paper or a sanding pad) and then apply sealant. You really should put a new gasket but I felt I could seal it well enough like this. I used high-temp RTV copper. Spread it evenly When the cover goes back on be sure to notice where the case has inserts into the cover to and fit those first. Keep all your bolts in order and then tighten in an even top bottom criss-cross pattern watch for binding. This does require a bit of pressure and makes a little popping noise occasionally. Be sure to use loctite as you reassemble. Sorry no pics my 8 year-old photographing son had to go eat lunch (Mom said!). 8. Replace all your plastic in opposite order of taking it off. Till it looks like this again. If you're careful you will break nothing like me, all the plastic is still intact and no metal bits were sheared. The bolts on the CVT cover and case didn't line up centered perfectly so be careful there especially. Let the gasket set for at least an hour before you run it until its hot. Hope this helps, speak up if I missed anything. Rob BTW I also put a new exhaust gasket at the same time and the whole thing took about 3 hours. It will be easier the next time as I know what to expect and a spacer is already made.
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Post by inuyasha on Sept 18, 2011 16:30:08 GMT -5
Hi Rob Thanks ever so much Concise and easy to follow Take care Yours Hank
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Post by larrball on Sept 18, 2011 17:05:00 GMT -5
Nice wright up rob, well done. I do have a ?. Did your old belt have "jonway" stamped on it?
My belt does and i have to yet replace it but it look's like a good belt and not a cheep OEM type belt.
If the old belt did have jonway stamped on it How many miles did you get on it?
I had 2 other scooters years ago and the belts where really not that good and im thanking the jonway belt i have is more in line with a brando or gates belt but haven't found any info on who makes it. Funny thing is i worked for gates a few years ago and no one there knows if gates did or didnt make the jonway belt.
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Post by sprocket on Sept 18, 2011 17:12:00 GMT -5
Just one thing that gets many people... when you remove the kick starter leaver you need to take the bolt out completely or you won't get it the lever off the shaft...
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Post by scootnwinn on Sept 18, 2011 17:26:33 GMT -5
The scooter is a 2008 and I didn't buy it new but it seemed to be the first time the cover had been removed. Here's what was in there and it still looks new to me. I almost didn't change it but the new belt is a 842 20 30 and the old one is a 835 20 30. I wanted to see if it makes any difference. haven't had a chance to ride it yet, I'm going to do that right after this post. It seemed like a quality belt and if it looks new after 1150 miles it must have been ok. So I have it as my spare now. I should also mention I got my parts from Monster GY6 and they came fast and right.
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Post by larrball on Sept 18, 2011 17:49:22 GMT -5
Thanks rob. Well that belt look's like it's still in good shape. The belts on my other 2 scoot's (2005 and 2006 i thank) Where just plane junk heck a rubber band would have been better..lol Got less the 1000 miles out of them.
Now the belt on my 2009 vip has close to 2000 miles on it and still looks good but im in the prosses of getting an inpac to replace it with a gates. (50cc scoot so i have to get the variator nut off with an inpac) I hope you get a better top end off the new size belt.. let us know i have a friend with a 150 cc and he wanted me to change his belt for him but i thank i'll let him see this frist.
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Post by scootnwinn on Sept 18, 2011 23:25:54 GMT -5
Just one thing that gets many people... when you remove the kick starter leaver you need to take the bolt out completely or you won't get it the lever off the shaft... Very true I put the bolt back in to keep it safe but it came all the way out to get it off. Ok update. Gates power link belt not so powerful or even linking any more. Here's what it looks like after 11 miles or so. and here's the "uninstalled" shot Not sure what went wrong there but I figure it could be that it was either too big or a piece of garbage. I reinstalled the old one and put 20 miles on it near the house just to make sure it wasn't the installation method and the old one still works great. So here is a point for the if it ain't broke don't fix it crowd. So I will be ordering a different brand same size as the old one for the a spare soon. Also the performance was pretty crappy as well the bike struggled to reach top speed though it did feel a little peppier off the line but that could have been eliminating the exhaust leak and not the belt. Anyway I feel a bit disappointed that I didn't even get to watch that $20 swirl around as I flushed it down the toilet.
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Post by alexthescooterguy on Sept 18, 2011 23:41:50 GMT -5
I will say that on my Peace Sports 150cc I also purchased a Gates Powerlink belt from Monster GY6 and it ended the same way yours did after about 100 miles, I put the Chinese belt back on and almost 4000 miles total on it and it still looks decent. I guess my next replacement will be another Chinese 15 dollar belt. My gates and Chinese brand belt are both 842 size, so I don't think that's it. After seeing someone else have this issue with Gates, I think I'll stay away from them.
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Post by scootnwinn on Sept 18, 2011 23:45:00 GMT -5
Me too definitely don't want to be pushing this scoot another 2 miles because a new part failed. I feel your pain scooterguy
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Post by alexthescooterguy on Sept 18, 2011 23:54:15 GMT -5
I had to call a tow truck, I was 36 miles from home with no tools and spare belt. A mistake I won't make again I have a spare belt and tool kit now under my seat at all times.
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Post by scootnwinn on Sept 19, 2011 0:11:42 GMT -5
That sucks. Thank God you can still hitch a ride around here and I have a truck that I could load it in. I was about 10 miles from home when mine broke. I live 16 miles from any sort of actual town.
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Post by sprocket on Sept 19, 2011 11:55:39 GMT -5
You should send those pictures to Gates...looks like they have a problem...
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Post by scootnwinn on Sept 19, 2011 12:00:35 GMT -5
Just got off the phone with Monster GY6 he says the scooter is bad or the installation was wrong. I asked him to explain how the old belt works fine and he couldn't. He said Gates belts never fail. I told this one did and that anything can fail. I was sure to let him know the whole process was posted here and the failure as well. He needed to talk to Gates he said as there is no warranty on a belt supposedly. We'll see how it goes.
EDIT/UPDATE They sent a replacement and offered a refund. IMO a great company and customer service. So he warrantied an non-warranty item.
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Post by alexthescooterguy on Sept 19, 2011 12:16:13 GMT -5
I got the same the story when I emailed him, said it was installation fault or a problem with the variator surface. Same deal man, cheap china belt is the way to go.
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Post by scootnwinn on Sept 19, 2011 12:28:44 GMT -5
What brand did you end up with? Any body sell a belt with a warranty? You would think if these belts were so great they would come with a warranty. Everything Autozone sells comes with a lifetime warranty it seems like and this guy won't even replace an obviously defective $20 belt once?? Ridiculous. Just to reiterate this belt was purchased at Monster GY6 hopefully the service is as good as the shipping..
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Post by alexthescooterguy on Sept 19, 2011 13:34:58 GMT -5
Sanmanwen is the brand name on my new belt I bought to put on at my next service, this is the one I bought, www.scooterbelt.com/st84cvtdrbef.html I used this company since they were only 15 + 6 for shipping and I got it next day since I live in GA
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Post by ericrockstar on Sept 19, 2011 14:05:40 GMT -5
I put 50 chinomiles on my new $10 belt this weekend. Everything seems good still so I ain't taking that thing off until it leaves me stranded.
I didn't look all the way through your write up, but most was pretty good! I would stress, DO NOT run without the cover on. Your kickstart will fly apart.
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Post by scootnwinn on Sept 19, 2011 14:31:04 GMT -5
Yes it could but if you don't run it briefly (5 seconds or so) to take up the slack in the belt, the belt hangs down and makes it difficult to get the cover back on. I ran it briefly more than once and the kickstart DID NOT fly apart.
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Post by inuyasha on Sept 19, 2011 14:40:58 GMT -5
Hi Sorry to hear about the belt Hope you get it resolved quickly and to your satisfaction Seems very wrong that with it failing so fast that no one wants to take responsibility for replacing it Take care dear friend Yours Hank
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Post by scooterkb on Sept 19, 2011 15:42:29 GMT -5
I feel for ya bud, I had exactly the same problem a while back with 2 brand new 842 Gates belts. I posted about those belts on another forum but only ever got one response. My feelings were that there are counterfeit Gates belts out there and the suppliers are being done over on them and they truly don't have a clue. Same as you, I put an old belt back on that had covered about 2500 miles and there was no problem. The odd thing was that even though the belts were clearly marked 842-20, they were infact 825mm in length. There was also a couple of differences in the belt markings, this is the proper Gates belt (which BTW is back on the scoot and has about 3000 miles on it and still looks great, and it was the original belt fitted to the scoot), this is what I believe to be the fake belt, See the difference in the 'VE' markings, and the 'G' on the Gates logo to the left? This is what it looked like after less than 10 miles, Very hard to tell from your photos, but if you look at mine you will see how the suspect belt has what looks like blue colored cord above the teeth and grey looking edges on the teeth. I have since got hold of an 835 belt that has the exact same markings as the 1st belt I put a picture of and it measures bang on 835. I also got a Gates PL20708 belt shipped over from the States and it measures at 852, slaps the inside of the case when the engine idles so I took it off. Big name brands will suffer from Chinese knock-offs, maybe there are a lot of them floating around and unless Gates do something to inform vendors of what genuine Gates belts look like in the flesh us poor old scoot riders will get it up the back passage time after time.
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Post by scooterkb on Sept 19, 2011 15:49:40 GMT -5
And the other 2 belts that were toast in less than 10 miles
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Post by scootnwinn on Sept 19, 2011 15:51:08 GMT -5
Mine did have blue cords. Looks like I've been swindled.
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Post by ericrockstar on Sept 19, 2011 16:35:40 GMT -5
Yes it could but if you don't run it briefly (5 seconds or so) to take up the slack in the belt, the belt hangs down and makes it difficult to get the cover back on. I ran it briefly more than once and the kickstart DID NOT fly apart. Maybe it's just me. LOL! I have the Bad Touch when it comes to mechanical things. If there's a way to mess something up, I surely will...
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Post by scooterkb on Sept 19, 2011 16:48:54 GMT -5
Mine did have blue cords. Looks like I've been swindled. Monster GY6 needs to check his supplier, or is he getting belts from a site like Alibaba or something that sell all sorts of stuff in bulk, including scooter drive belts (and yes, most are Chinese sellers) I never did get an answer from the Gates web site about the difference in the belts I had
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Post by scootnwinn on Sept 19, 2011 17:20:19 GMT -5
Here's what I was sent. It seems like it has the same "Gates" as your fake closed "s" and different "G". Maybe I should contact Gates and let them know these folks are giving them a bad name...
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Post by algears on Sept 19, 2011 17:43:47 GMT -5
Any chance the belt shredded because it was the wrong size?
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Post by scootnwinn on Sept 19, 2011 17:58:34 GMT -5
7mm is shorter than the space it takes to write 7mm. Steve from GY6assured me the belt would fit. Additionally it did fit I ran it with the cover off and in the lowest ratio that belt was good and tight. There was no noise prior to the failure and I think it started shredding the moment I put a load on it. The belt is not stamped with a Gates logo just stamped with a cursive Gates in a yellow oval it's not a Gates belt. Gates even has a whole division to report fraud apparently it's not uncommon.
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Post by dyoung1167 on Sept 19, 2011 21:59:39 GMT -5
not to argue all the rest ( i know there are plenty of fakes out there) but an 825 may very well be too short. 842 is supposed to be the standard but most say 835 is ok too but then dropping another 10 mils? i realize it's not that much but the forces applied to these belts are, especially if it gets bottomed out on the clutch pulley while the variator is still trying to close. miss marked real or miss marked fake i think it's too short.
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Post by nulujimmy on Sept 19, 2011 22:29:03 GMT -5
I bet your problem with breaking belts is a bad clutch bearing.
I see it so often, that now I take the clutch off and inspect the bearings on every belt change I do (which is a lot because I work(ed) at a scooter shop).
99% of the time I saw recurring belt breakages, it was because of a bad bearing.
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Post by scootnwinn on Sept 19, 2011 22:45:06 GMT -5
I think you guys are missing something the belt on the scooter was a 835 and I put a 842 on it. No one said anything about a 825 belt, can you even buy one of those?? It's not a smaller belt but a ever so slightly larger belt both sizes are acceptable. What thread are you reading? The old belt was not shredded it was in excellent condition. After the new belt was installed the belt lasted 11 miles. The old belt was reinstalled and it works fine. Scooterkb clearly shows 2 differently marked belts one lasts 1000's of miles the other one almost immediately shreds. The only thing that changes is the belt otherwise its the same scooter. Nothing is bent or broken it is a new well maintained scooter on my part. Do you work for Monster GY6 cause that's the same ignoring the facts garbage I got from them. I see it so often people that can't and comprehend what they read. There is no "recurring belt shredding". Was reading required at the scooter shop?? FYI most math on planet earth shows that 842-835=7 not 10. In this case it means 7mm larger or less than the width of your pinky. Someday I will visit you in your alternate universe where everything is mystical and changing. There are pictures of both belts above clearly marked with the respective numbers. Sorry just ticked that so many people have such a hard time with understanding when I try so hard to type clear English. The whole belt mess has me hurting from pushing the bike and I am grumpy. It does seem like this pretty straight forward though as most people are understanding. Also just not happy with scooter parts people this is the second bad experience in the last couple of weeks and it just irks me to do so much careful shopping and end up with poor service in the end. It seems to me that refunding $20 so that I don't make you look bad on every possible place I can and report you to the authorities would be a no brainer but this clown wants to wait to speak to his distributor. EDIT Wanted to make sure everyone saw that he did take care of this issue quickly and correctly. Monster GY6 is a safe place for parts in my opinion.
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