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Post by jlohlinger on Jun 10, 2011 9:56:43 GMT -5
Hello everyone, I have a 2008 Chongqing Bashan "VIP" scooter (49cc) that will not start with the electric starter and won't kick start either. In addition to that the headlights won't turn on (which I sort of remember only coming on when it was running).
I put a brand new battery in it yesterday because I thought maybe that was the problem that I had with it from the start and everything works outside of the starter and head lights. The horn, turn signals, etc., are all functioning, just can't get it to even sound like it may turn over.
I was going to replace the spark plug figuring that it may be getting no spark, but without an "owner's/repair" manual I'm at a loss as to where the spark plug even is on this or if that is what the problem actually is.
With the weather getting nice and the gas prices once again going through the roof I'd really like to get this up and running without spending more than it's worth repairing it. So far I'm down about $200 for the battery and a new charger from Harbor Freight, so I don't want to sink to much more because I only paid $1200 for it in the first place.
If anyone can tell me what it is that could be/is wrong with it or point me to where I can find a "Chilton Book" type repair manual I would sincerely appreciate it, as would my wife who's blood pressure goes through the roof every time I talk about getting rid of a scooter that has 133 miles on it in the last three years in lieu of a "Harley".
Thank you,
Jared
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Post by jlohlinger on Jun 10, 2011 16:52:02 GMT -5
Never mind. I tried finding it and everything that I've taken apart has dry rotted and cracked O-rings. Still didn't find the spark plug after all that, but I'm going to just throw this thing out. 133 miles on it and it's never even so much as started reliably. I just regret that I spent $150 on a battery and charger only to have the thing not run anyway.
Lesson learned though, never buy anything made in China. EVER!
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Post by mainepeace on Jun 10, 2011 17:51:26 GMT -5
Manuals: www.powerscooters.org/manuals/Well the rubber they use is substandard. It's standard to do a PDI (post delivery inspection) in which the rubber hoses, spark plug, clamps, fuel filter, sometimes electrical connectors are replaced with good ones. I'm sure you're just frustrated. Good 3/8" fuel line is cheap, and you only need about 2-3 feet of it. I'm sure that once you replace those, the scooter might start right up! However, without more detail it's difficult to say what the reason is (other than the hoses). When you say it doesn't start, what exactly happens? Greg
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Post by larry001964 on Jun 10, 2011 21:00:45 GMT -5
Hello jlohlinger My suggestion is to do a full PDI to the scooter, replace all rubber hoses, spark plug ( looking at the bike it's on the front right hand side of the engine). Change both engine and gear oil, replace the fuel filter. Clean the carb, and fuel system. youtu.be/4ReurNZ0U_MAnd since you mentioned it's always been hard to start. Do a valve adjustment. youtu.be/s0K-ytyjOFgThis should pretty much get you going, about 20 dollars in parts, and if it's still hard starting then I would replace the enrichner on the carb. :-)
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Post by jlohlinger on Jun 10, 2011 22:32:03 GMT -5
Manuals: www.powerscooters.org/manuals/Well the rubber they use is substandard. It's standard to do a PDI (post delivery inspection) in which the rubber hoses, spark plug, clamps, fuel filter, sometimes electrical connectors are replaced with good ones. I'm sure you're just frustrated. Good 3/8" fuel line is cheap, and you only need about 2-3 feet of it. I'm sure that once you replace those, the scooter might start right up! However, without more detail it's difficult to say what the reason is (other than the hoses). When you say it doesn't start, what exactly happens? Greg I'm thinking just about every hose and O-ring needs to be replaced, they're all dry rotted and/or split. When I turn the key all the lights come on except for the headlights, the horn beeps, the turn signals work, but when I press the electric start it does absolutely nothing. When I try to kick start it I get the same. It doesn't even sound like the engine is trying to turn over.
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Post by jlohlinger on Jun 10, 2011 22:35:52 GMT -5
Hello jlohlinger My suggestion is to do a full PDI to the scooter, replace all rubber hoses, spark plug ( looking at the bike it's on the front right hand side of the engine). Change both engine and gear oil, replace the fuel filter. Clean the carb, and fuel system. youtu.be/4ReurNZ0U_MAnd since you mentioned it's always been hard to start. Do a valve adjustment. youtu.be/s0K-ytyjOFgThis should pretty much get you going, about 20 dollars in parts, and if it's still hard starting then I would replace the enrichner on the carb. :-) Thank you for you're response and the pictures. I made the mistake of taking the cover off of the "thing" on the left of the picture there and the two square springs came out, I'm not sure exactly how they're supposed to be seated and that's what lead to my second "I give up" post. I've had a bunch of projects going on and was sitting around all day waiting for the UPS guy to get here with my new heat on demand water heater, so by the time I had those springs fall out I was at about my wits end. I'll probably go outside later tonight and attempt to put it back together and then get to the spark plug and see if replacing that will help now that I know where it's at. Again, thank you very much.
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Post by mainepeace on Jun 10, 2011 22:37:44 GMT -5
The O rings are probably OK as they are generally away from oxygen. The hoses definitely. Possibly the diaphragm in the carb (a new carb wouldn't be a bad idea either).
The headlight will come on with the engine.
You can test the starter by touching a screwdriver between the contacts of the solenoid with the ignition on. Just trace the wires back from the starter. If it spins, then it's something else in the ignition system. It could be something as simple as a loose ground, as the system is grounded on the engine and the frame.
It might be a good idea to pull apart every electrical connector and test for continuity. There might be some rusting or a loose wire.
Start from there and see where you get.
Greg
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Post by jlohlinger on Jun 11, 2011 0:43:08 GMT -5
I just put everything I took apart back together (when it finally struck me that the magnets were keeping the cap in place and if I unbolted it and gave the cap a bit of a yank I could reseat the springs and small magnets) and finally got out the spark plug. It didn't show any signs of it being fouled out (no rust, no black marks, etc).
I'm just not getting why it's showing no signs of life even when trying to kick start it. I've checked all the visible and accessible connections and nothing is really showing any signs of wear or disconnect. I don't have an extra plug here right now but I'll grab one of those in the morning and see what happens. If all else fails I guess (after pricing motorcycles I'd actually be interested in buying) I'll see who repairs these things in the Reading PA area. I've seen more and more of them cruising around so I assume someone around here is selling them because I can't see that everyone is dragging them back from the shore like I did.
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Post by larry001964 on Jun 11, 2011 6:28:20 GMT -5
The O rings are probably OK as they are generally away from oxygen. The hoses definitely. Possibly the diaphragm in the carb (a new carb wouldn't be a bad idea either). The headlight will come on with the engine. You can test the starter by touching a screwdriver between the contacts of the solenoid with the ignition on. Just trace the wires back from the starter. If it spins, then it's something else in the ignition system. It could be something as simple as a loose ground, as the system is grounded on the engine and the frame. It might be a good idea to pull apart every electrical connector and test for continuity. There might be some rusting or a loose wire. Start from there and see where you get. Greg Just a thought but he might want to be sure the emergency kill switch is in the run position ? If it is in the kill position all the lights would work normal, but it would prevent the starter from turning over, or the bike from starting.. Just a thought
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Post by jlohlinger on Jun 11, 2011 12:16:44 GMT -5
The O rings are probably OK as they are generally away from oxygen. The hoses definitely. Possibly the diaphragm in the carb (a new carb wouldn't be a bad idea either). The headlight will come on with the engine. You can test the starter by touching a screwdriver between the contacts of the solenoid with the ignition on. Just trace the wires back from the starter. If it spins, then it's something else in the ignition system. It could be something as simple as a loose ground, as the system is grounded on the engine and the frame. It might be a good idea to pull apart every electrical connector and test for continuity. There might be some rusting or a loose wire. Start from there and see where you get. Greg Just a thought but he might want to be sure the emergency kill switch is in the run position ? If it is in the kill position all the lights would work normal, but it would prevent the starter from turning over, or the bike from starting.. Just a thought If you're talking about the switch right about the starter I had that switched over "run" when trying to start it, but I was thinking that maybe there is something that is broken in that, that is preventing it from starting. I've had that happen to me with a couple of my weedwackers, but they get really beat up and there was nothing that should have jostled that to do the same. If there's another "kill switch" that I don't know about on it that could certainly be a possibility. The other thing I was thinking was that maybe there's a fuse for it somewhere that I don't know about, but the only fuse I've come across was the one in the battery compartment and I took the fuse out and connected the two wires directly after seeing that the fuse wasn't blown and still got the same lack of response from the scooter when I did that. Like I said earlier, I'm just not getting why it doesn't even sound like the engine is trying to turn over when I use the kick starter. The other thing I was thinking was that maybe the battery isn't fully charged but I can't find my volt meter anywhere to check that so maybe I'll hit Harbor Freight today and pick another one up just to make sure that it's pushing at least the 12 volts.
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Post by mainepeace on Jun 11, 2011 17:00:05 GMT -5
The wires do come loose in the kill switch. Happened to one of my scooters. Reseated the connectors and the electrics worked.
Have you tried grounding the spark plug on the engine or frame and hitting the starter? Definitely need to check that you are getting a good spark.
Greg
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Post by jlohlinger on Jun 11, 2011 22:04:18 GMT -5
The wires do come loose in the kill switch. Happened to one of my scooters. Reseated the connectors and the electrics worked. Have you tried grounding the spark plug on the engine or frame and hitting the starter? Definitely need to check that you are getting a good spark. Greg I'll have to pull apart the kill switch in the morning or maybe later tonight if it stops raining and see if something is loose in there. What's the best way to try grounding the spark plug on one of these? I know when I had a mini bike when I was a kid you just pulled the wire off the spark plug, held onto it, and pulled the cord. If you got zapped you had spark, LOL.
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Post by edfr on Jun 11, 2011 22:19:54 GMT -5
Look for the CDI and pull the KILL SWITCH OFF OF IT and try it. Here is a picture of the CDI and notice the KILL SWITCH WIRE DISCONNECT it from the CDI and see if turns over. Lefty
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Post by jlohlinger on Jun 12, 2011 14:32:05 GMT -5
Look for the CDI and pull the KILL SWITCH OFF OF IT and try it. Here is a picture of the CDI and notice the KILL SWITCH WIRE DISCONNECT it from the CDI and see if turns over. Lefty I gave that a shot and still nothing. I pulled the plug wire off and used a length of 12/2 wire to ground it to the tailpipe while kicking it and it at least sort of sounded like the motor was trying to start a bit more than when I kicked it with the plug wire on. I got the same when I put the 12/2 on the plug end and touched the tail pipe but got no spark from either method so I guess I'll hit WalMart and see if they have a plug that will fit. If that doesn't do it I guess I'll just see if there's somewhere I can take it to have it looked at. I'm not going to concede defeat after spending the last couple days pulling everything apart and putting it back together, especially in light of how helpful you have all been. Once again, thank you all for all the pointers, pictures, and direction. Had I not come across this place I'd have broken my back lifting this thing into one of my dumpsters. ;D
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Post by jlohlinger on Jun 13, 2011 21:19:26 GMT -5
WOO-HOO... FINALLY GOT IT STARTED...
The electric starter must be shot. It still doesn't do anything when you press the button (sure would be nice if it would, I must have kicked that friggin' thing 10,000 times).
I got a new NGK plug for it, and then blasted the carb with ether until it started to make some noise. I put it back together, drained all the old gas, and then filled it with some 92 octane with some octane boost.
The idle is a little goofy and it shuts off if I don't brake and throttle at the same time at stop signs or when I slow down significantly, but when it's wide open it's running pretty good. My buddy took of that filter that goes on the front of the air box a couple years ago and I don't know where I could have possibly put it, so when it was getting full air in the pipe it was shutting off too, but I took a plastic washer I had for a weed whacker and put it in the tube and it seemed to make a difference until I can find that or find a replacement.
I guess the only question I really have as of now is if there's another way to adjust the idle other than the screw on the top of the carburator because when I adjust that it seems to either idle way to fast or it cuts off right away.
Again, thank you all for all your help. I certainly would not have this running at all if not for your advice and pointers.
Jared
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Post by larry001964 on Jun 13, 2011 21:41:43 GMT -5
If you mean the A/F mixture for the idle ? Maybe if your carb has an A/F screw . They all used to have it but thanks to EPA regulations now they are manufacturing these carbs without the A/F mixture screw. Sucks but recently i saw a brand new carb with the bowl riveted shut. preventing upjetting or down jetting and no A/F at all, you will have to look.. Thanks EPA !!!
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Post by jlohlinger on Jun 14, 2011 13:36:15 GMT -5
If you mean the A/F mixture for the idle ? Maybe if your carb has an A/F screw . They all used to have it but thanks to EPA regulations now they are manufacturing these carbs without the A/F mixture screw. Sucks but recently i saw a brand new carb with the bowl riveted shut. preventing upjetting or down jetting and no A/F at all, you will have to look.. Thanks EPA !!! I'm going to go take a look and see if it has the screw for that (fingers crossed). Like I said I'm missing the piece that went on the front of the air box and the only way I was getting it to start initially (and stay running) was to put my hand over the front of the 2" tube and use it as a "breathing flapper". When I'd give it full throttle it would start dying out and I'd have to quick reach down and put my hand over the opening and then it would pick back up again. As for the "EPA", well, there's a lot of things I'd like to say about them, but I don't want to unleash the string of expletives I'd have to toss out there to truly display how I feel about them and government intervention in general. Nothing like being told to "save the environment" by someone sitting in an fleet of idling tax dollar funded SUV's.
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Post by larry001964 on Jun 14, 2011 16:14:05 GMT -5
you can always partially duct tape the opening so you don't have to use your hand.. As for the EPA well i too have a few choice words for them.. They are one reason why we have rich Arabs instead of rich Americans... But I too for the moment will remain silent.. :-) I think these are the caps your talking about. Just tape the opening partially closed over the tube and forget the caps, you may have to adjust the tape a little until you get the right A/F mixture but it will work.
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Post by mainepeace on Jun 14, 2011 18:35:43 GMT -5
If you're missing that cap, there is an "extra" one on the CVT cover vent, which you don't need. It fits.
Greg
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Post by jlohlinger on Jun 14, 2011 22:54:11 GMT -5
you can always partially duct tape the opening so you don't have to use your hand.. As for the EPA well i too have a few choice words for them.. They are one reason why we have rich Arabs instead of rich Americans... But I too for the moment will remain silent.. :-) I think these are the caps your talking about. Just tape the opening partially closed over the tube and forget the caps, you may have to adjust the tape a little until you get the right A/F mixture but it will work. Yeah, those would be the ones I'm talking about. The weed whacker spacer has a single hole and I had taken one of those green Scotch Guard scrubber pads and cut it to size to fit in front of it, but I'm guessing since it's only a single hole in the spacer it wasn't getting enough air. There is actually an A/F adjustment screw on this one and after I'd typed out my last post I went out and screwed it all the way in until it died out and then backed it out about half way and it was idling great. My daughter wanted me to take her for a spin on it so I went out about a half hour ago after digging through boxes to find her DOT approved helmet (my wife wanted to just let her use her bicycle helmet but the cops around her are a bit of a... well... uh... "hassle" so I immediately nixed that idea) I finally found it, went out back and took the scooter out of the yard, kicked it twice, and then the kick starter broke, so that's a project for tomorrow I suppose because I'm not about to sit outside with a flashlight to pull that apart. One of these days everything will work on it properly all at the same time. Today was not that day.
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Post by jlohlinger on Jun 14, 2011 22:59:55 GMT -5
If you're missing that cap, there is an "extra" one on the CVT cover vent, which you don't need. It fits. Greg I did take notice to that earlier when I was reaching around to find the screw I dropped off of the automatic idler when I was putting that back together but I'm not sure without trying it whether or not it would wind up screwing me elsewhere. The other thing I did that I was really wanting to see how much of a difference it makes is I took of the plastic headlight cage entirely. A couple years ago I bought some of those really good Xenon bulbs because the lights on it were horrible and while they made a difference I was still getting a lot of a shadow from the center bar on it which I'd cut out back then instead of taking the whole thing off originally. Hopefully by the weekend I'll have everything working properly, it would be nice if I could get that electric starter to fire it up, after all the kicking I've done this week I'm surprised I'm not only able to walk in circles from the workout my right leg has received. ;D
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Post by mainepeace on Jun 14, 2011 23:31:10 GMT -5
I'm always afraid of breaking the kick starter since I've already broken one.
Greg
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Post by jlohlinger on Jun 15, 2011 9:55:07 GMT -5
I'm always afraid of breaking the kick starter since I've already broken one. Greg I'm just glad it happened in the alley behind my house and not while I was miles from home. It sucks it broke, but it could have been worse.
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Post by jlohlinger on Jun 15, 2011 22:57:45 GMT -5
Well I took the kick starter apart and this is what I found broken. What it should like like... What it does look like (the scorch marks are from me trying to weld it back together obviously unsuccessfully). I suppose I'll be needing a new one and was wonder where the best place it to get one of these that will actually stay in one piece.
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Post by mainepeace on Jun 15, 2011 23:02:56 GMT -5
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Post by jlohlinger on Jun 22, 2011 0:20:29 GMT -5
Well... I got the parts this afternoon... put them on and got it running again... I still have to figure out what the deal with the electric starter is... and I still have some tweaking to do to get it idling right when you come to a stop sign (I've just been holding the brake and keeping on the throttle a bit)... but at least it's getting there...
Finally got to take my daughter out for the ride I promised her... and she was beyond thrilled... I can't wait until she sees the bedroom I'm building her for her birthday... I'm betting her eyes jump right out of her head...
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