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Post by jspencer on Nov 16, 2006 14:19:16 GMT -5
I went to check our new scooters and found that the RC-150 (classic) is leaking gas. The history is that I received it Tuesday, filled it with gas Wednesday (only to the bottom of the neck), rode a short distance, then put it away. Last night my wife sat on it and rocked it back and forth a few times.
I assumed that this meant I had filled it a little too much and some gas had came out of the overflow. But then I tried to start it and it wouldn't start. It turns over strongly but doesn't catch at all. After trying to start it I noticed more gas dripping out.
It's not pouring out, but it is dripping, and after trying to start it was dripping faster.
Any thoughts?
Jon
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Post by natefromogden on Nov 16, 2006 15:15:05 GMT -5
Any and all of our scoots need a thorough inspection of the fuel lines upon receipt. It seems they tend to get loose during shipping and handling.
So first, trace and track the fuel lines from the tank to the carb. If you don't find a cracked or loose line, check out the carb. If there is fuel coming out the overflow or bowl vent it indicates the float needle is stuck, aloowinig the drips and flooding your engine at the same time, hence it won't start.
Follow the lines and make sure everything is secure. Pull the spark plug and if its wet, dry it out and ventilate the combustion chamber with an air sprayer if you can.
You'll get 'er fixed in no time.
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Post by Admin on Nov 16, 2006 15:23:45 GMT -5
I'm not familiar specifically with the Retro but probably the easiest way to get to the fuel lines and carb to inspect, is to remove the storage well under the seat. Nate is correct. You need to go over the scoots and inspect all fuel lines. You should also go over them and make sure there are no loose nuts or bolts. Especially the nuts that attach the exhaust to the engine. Most internet dealers that offer assembly and set-up don't do a very good job. Another very common reason that scooters won't start for newbies is they forget about the kill switch or the forget to pull the brake lever. Most of them also have a built in kill switch in the side stand and won't start unless the side stand is up. Another thing is that if the scoot is started with the remote, it must be turned off with the remote or it won't start manually. That is on some systems, some may be different. That should give you a little to chew on. ;D
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Post by jspencer on Nov 16, 2006 15:31:56 GMT -5
Thanks guys. Well, I know it's not the side stand (it was up), brake lever (I pulled it), kill switch (checked on), or remote (haven't used it at all yet). I guess I'll have to figure out how to pull the storage well off. I have a call in to Bandit but their mechanic was out this morning. They may be able to talk me through that part.
Jon
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Post by scooterollie on Nov 16, 2006 16:01:43 GMT -5
jspencer; When you get the storage bin out, look carefully around to see if you can spot from where the gas is leaking. You have probably seen reference to poor O.E. gas filters - replace with NAPA #3011 or equiv. If it appears to be coming from the bowl vent on the carb., could be the float valve is stuck or float level is off. Did you pull the plug? If it is wet, the engine is flooding. Will it start or try to catch if you open the throttle all the way while cranking? Like what we did with older cars with carbs. when they flooded. Just some more ideas. Hope it helps.
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Post by Admin on Nov 16, 2006 16:31:17 GMT -5
Thanks guys. Well, I know it's not the side stand (it was up), brake lever (I pulled it), kill switch (checked on), or remote (haven't used it at all yet). I guess I'll have to figure out how to pull the storage well off. I have a call in to Bandit but their mechanic was out this morning. They may be able to talk me through that part. Jon To remove the well, simply open the seat. There will be four or six nuts to remove and you will probably have to remove the gas cap. It lifts right out. I don't think you need a mechanic to talk you through that one.
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Post by jspencer on Nov 16, 2006 16:36:02 GMT -5
OK, I saw those nuts (four I think). And the gas cap issue explains one thing I saw -- there's a removable piece of plastic that surrounds the gas cap. If I pull that out I think I won't have to remove the gas cap. Time to pull out the tool kit.
Jon
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Post by bob on Nov 16, 2006 17:00:53 GMT -5
If your scoot is CARB certified, the gas tank overfill hose goes to a charcoal filter. If you put too much gas in it, the gas can reach your airfilter which will then have to be dried out. At least that is how it was on the 2005 models.
Bob
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Post by jspencer on Nov 16, 2006 17:31:29 GMT -5
Well, the scooter is CARB certified, but it doesn't have a filter yet -- just a filter holder that is in the storage bin and there's no gas in there (Bandit said the filters were back-ordered and they would ship them to me when they had them).
However, I wasn't successful in removing the storage bin. Not sure what the problem was -- I found 2 nuts and 2 screws, removed all of them, removed the piece of plastic around the gas cap, and started gently pulling up the storage bin. It feels like it is being held down somewhere around the middle but I don't see anything holding it. I don't want to pull hard until the folks at Bandit tell me there's nothing else to remove and to go ahead and pull hard.
The complications are (1) the filter is on the side of the storage bin, but it's hoses seem loose enough that I should be able to lift it, and (2) the battery is at the front of the storage bin, but again it's wires seem long enough that it wouldn't prevent lifting the back end of the bin.
Jon
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Post by scooterollie on Nov 16, 2006 19:53:03 GMT -5
jspencer; Does sound like yours is more complicated. Might be like the Tank Touring/Roketa Bali models - that inner compartment doesn't just lift out with the removal of a few screws/bolts.
Out of curiosity, what is the name of the Chinese manufacturer found on the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety (FMVSS) plate?
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Post by jspencer on Nov 16, 2006 20:58:06 GMT -5
Fixed! Or more accurately, the specific operator failure has been pinpointed. This model has a canister for a filter above the engine in the storage bin. No filter at the moment, but the vent tube from the tank goes to the canister and then to the intake. It looks like filling it a little too full and then rocking it around some sloshed some fuel through that tube. Not enough to go into the canister but enough to slide down into the intake and flood the engine.
Bandit called me back and described how the pipes should go and explained what I should do if they had been mis-routed, which they said was possible. Turns out they weren't mis-routed, so I did a flooded start, got the thing going (cough-cough) and then kept the throtte open just enough to keep it from dying until it cleared itself out. It took a lot longer to clear out than a car or airplane engine, but then it's a much smaller engine.
I got it to where it would idle smoothly and when I shut it off and restarted it, it started right up. I think it needs a mile or two at high power to really clear it out.
It turns out that the storage bin does come off with just 2 screws and 2 bolts, but it sticks a little in the body. Once I knew that I was able to ease it out without a problem.
One last interesting issue: Bandit told me that the canister in the storage bin is for the CARB certification, and if I wanted to take it out I could, since I live in Massachusetts. I would then have to block the tube to the tank (and presumably the intake) and put a small vent hole in the gas cap. Has anybody done that before? The advantage is that it gives me a little more room in the storage bin but it does increase pollution of the engine a little. The alternative is to not fill the tank as much.
Jon
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Post by jspencer on Nov 16, 2006 21:06:40 GMT -5
scooterollie --
Taizhou Zhongeng Motorcycle Co., built June 2006
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Post by Admin on Nov 16, 2006 22:29:15 GMT -5
Congrats on the fix. You are now a Certified Chinese scooter owner. It sounds like Bandit provided decent follow through. There are a lot of internet dealers that won't give you the time of day after they get your money.
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Post by bob on Nov 16, 2006 22:29:27 GMT -5
jspencer, I think you meant Taizhou Zhongneng Motorcycle Co. Anyway, I removed the cannister on my Bandit scoot so that I would have more room under the seat. I took the hose from the gas tank vent and ran it up and over the tank and back down by the left side shock. I took the hose that went to the carb off of the scoot. I then took the hose from the air cleaner and ran it to the carb.
Bob
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Post by jspencer on Nov 16, 2006 22:42:01 GMT -5
Bob --
Thanks, that sounds like a reasonable thing to do and fairly easy. I may try it this weekend if the weather cooperates (it was 70F in Boston today...).
Jon
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