Headlight Not To bright?!?

[Bong]

At idle my headlight is very dim. If you give it throttle the light gets brighter. I know this is a common problem with 50cc but, I have never read a solution to steady headlight brightness.

Is there a way to keep the headlight at a constant bright level???

Is this just the nature of the beast or could this be a sign of something else wrong?

[larry001964]

Hi Bong,
It's the nature of the beast here's why..

Unless you want to install an other voltage regulator, battery, and on/off light switch ( or perhaps a relay that comes on with the ignition )

That's the way most scooter's work the headlights. I know the white wire on this diagram is hard to see but it's there. Your headlights get their power straight from the stator, this is done this way because it's the cheapest way so your lights come on automatically and run all the time. (DOT regulation ) I think.

An easier way might be just to increase your idle speed a little if you haven't already done that.

I just read something by 90GTVert, concerning clutch springs and how they are measured. If you already have your idle at it's max before your CVT engages, you may be able to install slightly heaver clutch springs, that would enable you to raise your idle RPM's and increase your power to your headlights. Read his stuff and you will see what I mean. Good luck

[Bong]

Thanks Larry that makes sense. I recently lowered my idle speed and noticed the headlight was much dimmer. I think tomorrow I will raise the speed and see if that helps. I just don't like sitting at a red light and watching my display panel and headlight go dim. Anyway, thanks for the tip!!!!

[Bluefront]

My main concern about the way many of these scoots are wired......other drivers cannot see you as well at night when you're just sitting there, with the engine idling.

The work-around......add extra LED lights that work off the battery, rather than simply an AC output from the stator. You can also do some re-wiring so some of the existing lights work off the battery. The tail-light(s) can be changed to LEDs and rewired to simply come on with the ignition (they won't dim that way).

The problem is the head-light.....it can't be changed to an LED bulb. So if you rewire it to work off the battery, the stator won't be able to keep up with the extra DC draw, and the battery will go dead.

I am mostly concerned about being seen.....so my extra LEDs do that job nicely. Here's my scoot sitting there with the ignition on, engine not running....only the extra LEDs are visible.

[medman1952]

Jan 25, 2011 21:40:34 GMT -5 larry001964 said:

Hi Bong,
It's the nature of the beast here's why..

Unless you want to install an other voltage regulator, battery, and on/off light switch ( or perhaps a relay that comes on with the ignition )

That's the way most scooter's work the headlights. I know the white wire on this diagram is hard to see but it's there. Your headlights get their power straight from the stator, this is done this way because it's the cheapest way so your lights come on automatically and run all the time. (DOT regulation ) I think.

An easier way might be just to increase your idle speed a little if you haven't already done that.

I just read something by 90GTVert, concerning clutch springs and how they are measured. If you already have your idle at it's max before your CVT engages, you may be able to install slightly heaver clutch springs, that would enable you to raise your idle RPM's and increase your power to your headlights. Read his stuff and you will see what I mean. Good luck

There, better??

[larry001964]

Yes much better Medman
Thank you :-)

[buiditright]

Bluefront,
can you send me a message with the info of your lights and how you ran them. Also do they run your battery down very much??

Bill

[tomcas]

Jan 25, 2011 21:40:34 GMT -5 larry001964 said:

Hi Bong,
It's the nature of the beast here's why..

I know the white wire on this diagram is hard to see but it's there. Your headlights get their power straight from the stator, this is done this way because it's the cheapest way so your lights come on automatically and run all the time. (DOT regulation ) I think.

The diagram is wrong. The yellow wire is the lighting circuit (AC) and the white wire is the charging circuit (DC).

[tomcas]

It's common on a lot of 150cc scooters as well. I would just learn to live with it. After all, how bright does the headlight have to be when you're at idle?

[Bong]

Great mods as usual Bluefront. If I saw those lights at night, I would slow down just to figure out what it was ;D I share your concern for being seen at night which is why I asked the original question.

I have thought about going with LED lights and done some research. I still don't understand why it's illegal to have an LED headlight!? Every other light on a bike can go LED to save power and be brighter but, why not the headlight?

(EDIT)- Even if you ride a bicycle in my city, at night you need a headlight that can bee seen from 500ft and a tail light that matches. So, If your lights dim at a stop this could be probable cause to get pulled over. That would be just one reason to have a constant bright light. I just like to be seen for safety reason's as well. Thats just me though.

[erictheviking666]

LED's just aren't bright enough yet and don't spread the light out evenly. While you might get an LED headlight that was bright to on coming cars, it just would not illuminate enough of the road ahead of you for you to be able to see. The technology is progressing rapidly and I believe that some day LED headlights will be the norm. But not just yet.

[medman1952]

Color of the wire seems to be a variant from maker to maker. I went looking at wiring diagrams I and found one that the wire was white. I think the important thing is that the circuit goes from one point to another, not the color. A person needs to trace the wire down to make sure it is the correct one if they are working on a scooter. Green is pretty universally the ground, all other colors can be what the company wants.

[Bluefront]

LED headlights.....in addition to being illegal, they simply don't throw enough light on the road to see very well. In that photo the bottom two lights are LED fog lights.....they can be seen a long way off, but don't light the road very well compared to normal halogen bulbs, even though they're aimed downward.

The upper LED is simply an LED clearance bulb.....replacing the standard bulb in the headlight housing. The two small lights are single bright LED bulbs from O'Rileys......custom fitted in the turn signal housings. The colored side marker LED lights replace the OEM reflectors that were in the same spots. They're available from Harbor Freight either amber or red. The rear of this scoot has an additional red LED light facing rearward, in addition to the OEM tail/brake light. And the trunk has a bunch of strip LEDs around it, as well as a high LED stop light. The scoot lights up like a Christmas tree. ;D

All of these LEDs draw very little current.....the battery charging is not affected at all. I've never had to hook up an extra charger for the battery.

Where to hook up the extra wires.....depends. There are a bunch of wires in this scoot that get 12v DC with just the ignition on. The turn signal relay, and the horn are two. Some scoots (my 50cc Roketa for instance) run the tail lights off DC. I simply hooked up the extra LEDs to the closest spot in wiring harness I could find a wire that gets 12V with only the ignition on. The extra LEDs are on all the time the key is turned on. No battery charging problems whatever.

I also replaced the standard OEM headlight bulb with a halogen bulb of the same wattage (35w)...it's quite a bit brighter. I would like a brighter headlight however, but I'll need a new stator to work the headlight off DC, or to use a higher wattage headlight. Plus there's the real possibility of melting the headlight housing with a brighter headlight.

The LED lights all run cool.....no problems.





Let me add this.....from a safety standpoint, it's probably best to install a separate fuse for your LED lights. Most of my LEDs run off this single connection by the horn button. I tapped into the horn 12v wire, and installed a fuse holder with a 3A fuse. In theory this fuse should blow before the main fuse if the LEDs have a problem. No problems so far at 9K+ miles.

[tomcas]

Jan 26, 2011 22:00:02 GMT -5 medman1952 said:

Color of the wire seems to be a variant from maker to maker. I went looking at wiring diagrams I and found one that the wire was white.

It's true that wire colors vary but I've worked on a lot of bikes and have never seen a white wire used for the AC lighting system, it's always been the yellow wire. Now you've got my curiosity, can you post a link to the wiring diagram you found that uses a white wire for the lighting?

[medman1952]

I have to go looking, it was in a folder on my computer and I have a bunch of stuff, don't recall exactly what file had it.

Went looking and didn't find what I saw yesterday. I always could have miss read the diagram. I did find one that was very similar and did have a white wire coming out going to the rectifier and then on to the lights. I'll try and remember to check my home computer tonight for it.

[larry001964]

Hi Guys,
I only use this diagram to illustrated simple points, I think for someone not familiar with reading schematics it's pretty simple.

I fixed the problem with the diagram. ;D

[medman1952]

Here is a page out of a manual. It has just a white wire coming out of the stator, no yellow, it is not what I found yesterday, and I'm getting a head ache looking for it, this will have to do for now.

Attachments:

[qwertydude]

Jan 26, 2011 22:28:37 GMT -5 Bluefront said:

LED headlights.....in addition to being illegal, they simply don't throw enough light on the road to see very well.

That's not entirely true. I know people who mountainbike at night and I also collect led flashlights. Some of my flashlights easily outshine the 35w incandescant bulbs. These low powered headlight bulbs in our scooters output about 550 lumens. I have a flashlight with a 12v capable regulator that easily puts out 1200 lumens in a pretty narrow beam similar to a pencil beam foglight. It actually would make a great though very blinding high beam. An 800 lumen light would be plenty, something like this

www.dealextreme.com/p/eastward-yj-e02-hrc20-30mn-mc-e-3-mode-800-lumen-led-bike-light-set-4-18650-50946

I have a flashlight with the same head assembly and if I were to mount it on my scooter I can tell you I'd be able to see more than twice as far as with the standard headlight. The only problem is it is very blindingly glaring for oncoming traffic.

[Panaramaguy]

You might consider a halogen light bulb. They are about 3 times brighter and come in various wattages. I found the 35 watt was about right for me. I went through a few so I think the unstable electrical voltage may be hard on them. I used to get about 6 months out of a bulb and they cost about $8.oo each. I got them from England, but I would assume they are available somewhere more local too.

Lately I've used a 9003 automotive bulb and had to make a custom clip to hold it in. It's brighter than the factory bulb, not as bright as a halogen.....but way more able to handle the voltage irregularities of the scoot.

You can get a voltage regulator for a couple of hundred bucks, but you'll also have to get a better battery then too. Too many upgrades for the buck. Better to just make the headlight change whatever works for you and call it done.

[Bluefront]

I suppose you could rig up all sorts of lights on any scoot.....but to be practical about it, and to show respect for other divers as well as avoid trouble with the cops, you're probably restricted to a few solutions.

I changed my headlight bulb and socket to a 35W H4 halogen. It fit in the stock housing with a few relatively easy mods. This bulb is quite a bit brighter than the 35W OEM setup, but it does run hotter.....so I drilled a bunch of vent holes in the rear of the reflector housing. It's been running like this for maybe 6K miles w/o problems.

The bulb is running off the regulated AC output of the stator....hasn't blown out yet. Cost about $7.....had to be ordered online, because the H4 bulbs at auto parts stores are 55w minimum, which would melt my reflector (I think). The new connector came from O'Rilleys, and was just spliced into the old wiring.



Here's what happened when I tried to replace the stock 35w bulb with a 35w halogen bulb with the same base......melted bad in a few miles.

[tomcas]

Jan 27, 2011 22:06:03 GMT -5 medman1952 said:

Here is a page out of a manual. It has just a white wire coming out of the stator, no yellow, it is not what I found yesterday, and I'm getting a head ache looking for it, this will have to do for now.

That page of the manual clearly shows the yellow wire coming out of the stator, going to the auto chock, lighting circuit, and voltage regulator. Let me know when you find the one showing a white wire for the lighting circuit.

[Bong]

www.partsforscooters.com/Current_stabilizer_169-4?sc=11&category=735 Would this keep the current stable thus a constant bright at idle? Is that what this does or am I reading the description wrong?? Seems a bit expensive but, if it works, may be worth the cash for safety.

I found this link in another thread and wondered if this is the answer to dim headlights or just an over priced gimmick. Or, Am I way off assuming what it does?

Does anyone have experience with one of these???

[Bong]

^^^^^ Sorry Guys Nevermind!!!!! I think this is only used if your drawing to much current! Ya Know what happens when you (Ass-u-me) something.

[qwertydude]

That voltage stabilizer is nothing but a capacitor. It won't actually "stabilize" the fluctuation in voltage of your stator. If your headlight stator is outputting only 9 volts at idle, your headlights see only 9 volts at idle, remember they're not connected to the battery. Plus a capacitor across the battery leads will cause a terrible power spikes in the half wave DC output of the regulator. This will possibly cause your regulator to overheat and fail or even worse you stator to overheat.

[benellibob]

what about attaching a capacitor meant for car audio? would this not help keep your headlights from dimming, as they do in a car when a bass note hits? just a thought...


i found a rockford fosgate cap w/ digital voltage readout