HELP .. Intermittent Spark issue

[sangrelx]

Ok guys Im back for some help lol..

Got a Verucci 50cc Scooter nearly 900 miles on it now.

Motor starts - idles a second then dies

Regular oil changes and mait on schedule

The issue to make it short and to the point

I start it and she idles a second then dies....
Try again -- a few seconds later starts, idles, dies

wont start again for ages like 30 minutes can go by - try again same deal

I checked carb it has gas, cleaned air filter out, it was clean already

Pulled the plug.... BAM WET PLUG....

Grounded plug against exhaust pipe (tried against engine case, frame, etc.. all same result)

gets a good spark for about 3-5 seconds then just stops sparking

stop cranking wait a few seconds to a minute do it again
SAME thing spark a few times about 3-5 seconds then BAM dead no spark

I tested the spark plug with a digital ohm meter
probe center electrode - and outter threads = infinity no resistance

Probe center electrode to top of plug = resistance

so thats a good indication the plug is indeed working



Soo im lead to thinking that some reason the electrical system is not putting out enough power or its randomly putting it out then stopping


earlier today I got her running and she stayed running for some time while i let it warm up -- I turned it off came inside and way later tonight when i tried no luck at all

I do hear something funny - a like rubbing noise comming from the right hand side where the stator and such is at.

is it possible something in there is busted and just randomly putting out juice?


any ideas or suggestions?


ADDED INFORMATION

---
adjusted gap in plug, cleaned it up a bit, reinstalled it

Scooter is running now.. but still acting funny
weird ticking noise almost like a valve chattering (it was there before this problem though)

and it idles itself up and down...?!?

it will sit idle for a bit - then go down near dying out then back up and this is after a near mile long run on it to warm it up



soo to recap

Cleaned plug, regapped (shortened the gap I think i had it to wide - im gapping it by eye cuz I didnt have Gap guages with me right now)

Cleaned, Regapped, Scooter started up and ran
I got her to stay running - hopped on ran it hard for a mile or so brought her home

Sitting in the driveway idling - and I find it doing purring like a kitten then bogging down and back up to purring again all on its own

Any ideas or suggestions, or info much appreciated

[scootercapecod]

That is strange...BUT I think I can help. It may still be that your carb needs a bit more adjustment. Let it warm up and turn the A/F screw 1/4 turn either way to see whether or not that changes the idle, you can always turn the idle screw 1/16th of a turn clockwise to see if that keeps it steady.

[sangrelx]

I will probably adjust the carb again tomorrow

The ticking noise I am almost sure is a Lifter hitting the valve cover -- I have never adjusted the valves even during the PDI i didnt touch em I had read somewhere they are getting better at sending these scoots out with them adjusted properly

but I think perhaps one is loose due to this ticking noise


Does anyone have a GOOD Step by step on how to Adjust the carb by Ear..

I think I am not setting the idle properly before I adjust the AF Screw

I adjust the idle up until the wheel barely tries to move -- but then when I am screwing in the A/F Screw I can get it all the way in and the motor still runs....

I thought the engine was supposed to shut off when you tighten that screw all the way up?


Should I back the idle off until the motor Dies when this happens then back the AF screw out a tid bit and restart it?

I am confused

I thought u set the idle to where the wheel barely moves then screw in AF until motor Stops and back it out 1/4 turn then start the motor and find the sweet spot by adjusting the AF then adjust idle again when done

any tips, hints, suggestions

Also doing First ever Valve Adjustment tomorrow
Any suggestions on what to set Exhaust or intake valves to?

Thanks again

[tenxsixplus9]

Valves are usually set to .002-.003 on intake and .003-.004 on exhaust.

[als01seville]

Here is how to adjust your Air/Fuel Mixture:
Alleyoop

But you must have the Engine Nice and Hot. The Enricher must be off by this time otherwise you will not get the correct setting on the Air/Fuel Mixture.


ADJUSTING YOUR AIR/FUEL MIXTURE:
YOU WANT THE HIGHEST RPMS OUT OF THE AIR/FUEL MIXTURE SCREW:
This is for you common CV Carbs that have the Air Fuel Mixture Screw Near the INTAKE goint to the Engine. Other Carbs may have the Air/Fuel Mixture On the Air Filter Side with those JUST CHANGE the WORDS "CLOCKWISE to COUNTER CLOCKWISE" and "COUNTER CLOCKWISE to CLOCKWISE" other than that same thing applies.

Before you start it Turn the Air/Fuel Mixture Screw CLOCKWISE UNTIL IT STOPS do not tighten it just until it stops BUT COUNT how many TURNS IT TOOK TO CLOSE it. Then Turn it COUNTER CLOCKWISE the same amount of turns back to where it was.
Then Start your scoot and Get The Engine Nice and Hot about 10 minutes so that the Enricher is no longer Allowing Extra Fuel to come in. Then do the following to fine tune the Air/Fuel Ratio:

RICHEN THE AIR/FUEL MIXTURE:
1. Turn the Air/Fuel Mixture COUNTER CLOCKWISE 1/4 turn and wait 10-15 seconds to let the engine catch up with the new setting.
a. If the RPMS go up REPEAT 1 UNTIL the RPMS GO DOWN OR NO CHANGE.
b. Then TURN the Air/Fuel Mixture 1/8 CLOCKWISE and that should be your highest Air/Fuel Mixture setting.

"""If on the FIRST 1/4 TURN from the STARTING Position IN #1 ABOVE the RPMS GO DOWN OR NO CHANGE , turn the Air/Fuel Mixture Back the 1/4 turn to the Starting position and wait 10-15 seconds until the engine catchs up and go to #2"""

LEAN THE AIR/FUEL MIXTURE:
2. Turn the Air/Fuel Mixture CLOCKWISE 1/4 turn and wait 10-15 seconds to let the engine catch up with the new setting.
a. If the RPMS go up REPEAT 2 UNTIL the RPMS GO DOWN OR NO CHANGE.
b. Then TURN the Air/Fuel Mixture 1/8 COUNTER CLOCKWISE and that should be your highest Air/Fuel Mixture setting.

IDLE SPEED SCREW:
3. If after adjusting your Air/Fuel Mixture your idle is to fast Turn the IDLE SPEED SCREW COUNTER CLOCKWISE until your Rear Wheel JUST Barely wants to Turn or around 1500-1800 rpms.

4. If 1 or 2 above DOES NOT produce any RPM Change you most likely have a CLOGGED PILOT JET "OR" you did not get the ENGINE HOT ENOUGH and you were working against the ENRICHER which has not yet closed off the extra fuel. If the engine was nice and hot running for about 10 minutes and the Enricher was off then its time to take off the Carb and Clean out the Jets and all the Carb Passages.

If adjusted correctly you should be able to give the Throttle a QUICK half turn and the Engine should REV UP with no bogging hesitation and get a nice VROOOOOOOOOOOM. The Rpms should come down nice and settle at the Rpms you set your Idle to.

[sangrelx]

Thanks guys...
I will tackle this tomorrow and be sure to fully warm the engine before adjusting the carb

I will do valves COLD engine -- Start her up and probably ride to town on it and back -- then adjust the carb while hot

I think the past times ive adjusted the carb I had not waited long enough for the motor to be hot enough...

will let u all know the results tomorrow lol

[sangrelx]

Blahh -- I for some reason dont have the tools I need to get the valve cover bolts off

looks like a 8mm wrench and ill be damed if i could find one lol .. all my tools seemed to have walked away

I started her up and let her idle today for a bit and she seems ok now ... I still here the tapping inside the valve cover though.

Wish i could get the valves done I dont wanna buy more tools I have a ton of em somewhere I just cant find em

lol

[tenxsixplus9]

Yep. I use a 8mm T Handle to get the Valve Cover bolts out. Then you will need a 9mm wrench to loosen the tappet adjusters on the valves.

[sangrelx]

Checked into valve adjustment -- they both were pretty much set at .005 in (.0127mm)

Soo we left them there..
Funny I still hear a ticking like the valve is knocking - it does sound fairly bad but now im not sure its the valve???

It bogs down and acts a bit funny at more random times now - like it has no fire at all
checked the carb needle, diaphram, etc.. all looked Clean and in pristine shape

got her nice and hot and adjusted the carb again

this tick is driving me mad though -- the girlfriend had a crazy idea --- she wandered what if water got into our gas can somehow -- we had some heavy rain and lol oddly enough all I had over the opening on the can was a plastic bag (dont ask)

is it possible I hear Spark knock and have these issues from watery gas?
she said she tossed in some fresh gas at the pump and for a little bit she ran nice and strong then it started bogging down again

.... ALSO weird thing if you hit a bump on this scooter the gas tends to slosh out from under the cap and puddle up on the back where there is a dip in the top of the gas tank area

IS this normal..... the gas cap is not a terribly tight fit ... would a air leak in the gas cap potentially cause an issue? (the cap has always been a bit loose I thought it was to allow for proper breathing of the tank to prevent vapor locking it)

any ways all suggestions are welcome
I will double check plug and gap on plug tomorrow since I actually just eyeballed the gap the other night when adjusting it LOL

[mainepeace]

Well since the gas tanks only hold about 1 1/4 gallons or so, it only costs $3 to replace the gas! Go ahead and do it.

Greg

[sangrelx]

-=UPDATES=-

Did valve adjustment - still has tapping sound ... have not found location not even sure if its valves or not

Replaced fuel filter with a nice one I found at advance auto parts - Glass see through chamber with replaceable filter cartridge

HOPE the glass stands up to vibrations lol ...

Replaced spark plug (NOW IT SPARKS 100% of the time like it should)
I think the stalling, sputtering was due to the old plug not sparking right I think I had fouled it up beyond use (I had the miles wrong on this bike its at 657 not around 900 like I said before)

I think i had the gap was wrong on the plug - but I know on this new plug its at .035 I gapped it with an actual plug gapper Last time I gapped it by kind of using the feeler guages and attempting to adjust the gap against it LOL -- didnt work to well I guess

Soooo to recap
New Fuel Filter (high flow crystal clear fuel in line)
New Plug
Adjusted Valves

Results
Undetermined it is currently on the road to our local town about 8 mile round trip I will know shortly how it ran

Expected Results - Smoother running no sputter & hopefully back to running like normal

Future Plans - Adjust carb tonight upon return of scooter while she is nice and hot & in 5 days Check plug to see how its burning

Any ideas, tips, or suggestions?
Please let me know - I truly appreciate it

[sangrelx]

argg... she said it ran strong on the trip into town and started acting nuts on the trip back...

starting to wonder if the carb is out of whack or something ...
didnt get around to adjusting it last night -- guess ill have no choice but to do it tonight when she gets off work

i know it gets good fuel, good spark, valves adjusted to .05 EX and IN, I pulled diaphram on carb inspected it - clean looks brand spanking new. inside of carb is clean as can be

what else could cause this sputtering and stalling issue?

[sangrelx]

Fixed it..

after replacing Fuel Filter and Spark Plug
Cleaning Air Filter out
Checking Carb Diaphram and Needle (all clean as a bell and in good shape)
Adjusting Carb to compensate for new higher flow fuel filter
and doing tons of running and testing....

NOTHING FIXED IT
Still bogging down and acting like it has no power acted like it had no fuel.......

Soo after a night of spending 30 minutes on 4 mile trip following the Girlfriend home while she tried to make it etc..

I re-checked ALL I Could...

I noticed while checking a part that looked loose -- It was a rubber boot that covers the connectors on the Ignition Coil....

So i pulled it back and noticed it was sparking... one of the connectors was loose and not making full connection - as the motor idled it would randomly spark

I thought hrmm.. perhaps this is why it bogs down, has no power at random times etc.. and sometimes works blah blah

I guessed it was a part that deals with ignition and after looking it up I now know its indeed the ignition coil

I took a pair of pliers and snugged up the connector and slid it back onto the coil and PRESTO...

She has taken one successful trip TO work... worked all day... and Drove it home with 100% Stability....

ALL This BS from one LOOSE Connector ... I thought I did a fairly Thorough PDI - However it seems I did not

All is well so far

if this is indeed the solution then this Scooter was not a bad purchase .. and even though I had 2 issues to date with only like 700 miles now the bike was a good purchase

[mainepeace]

Glad you fixed it!

Loose electrical connections seem to be the MOST aggravating issue with these Chinese made scooters. A full PDI would theoretically catch it, but we've all had it happen to us at one point or another!

Greg