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Post by erictheviking666 on Aug 22, 2010 12:21:55 GMT -5
I think they have lighter rollers in them too. After I get on one of these and then my Roketa, I can tell a big difference in the way the variator acts. Sometime when you have one in the shop and apart, how about weighing the stock rollers. Compare those with a Roketa (for instance) and see if there is a significant difference. I'm curious about the rollers.
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Post by mainepeace on Aug 22, 2010 16:09:28 GMT -5
Eventually I'm going to get around to buying a performance variator so I will then weigh the stock rollers. If they are lighter than other scooters, which I think they are, then it wouldn't make sense for me to buy new ones. Perhaps sliders will increase the performance, perhaps not. Also, I wonder if buying a performance variator will even be worth it at $20 if there won't be much seat of the pants difference.
I do know that when I accelerate most of the time the RPM's go up (don't have a tach) and don't drop too quickly (upshifting) unless it's at WOT, then the RPM's will drop about 1s into the pull, sounding almost like a normal gear shift into second. I just want to stop that from happening so possibly just removing 2 rollers will do what I need. I want to make sure I keep my top end.
I have not ridden any other 50cc scooters, except for the scooters they have on Bermuda, so I have no basis for comparison as to how "powerful" my Peace Sports 50 is or what sort of performace increase I'll get with the "standard" upgrades.
Greg
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Post by erictheviking666 on Aug 22, 2010 16:28:01 GMT -5
Get the performance variator! You won't be disappointed, if it's got the improved ramp angle, and teflon coating you will notice the difference. What you describe still sounds like you need lighter rollers. Depending on how many miles are on the current rollers they probably need to be changed anyway. So don't put old rollers in a new variator.
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Post by Eat Sleep Scooters on Aug 22, 2010 17:43:37 GMT -5
Where is a good place to buy a good variator on the cheap?
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Post by mainepeace on Aug 22, 2010 18:56:46 GMT -5
My scooter only has about 550 miles or so. Issue now is that I drive it every day to work so I can't afford to let it sit for a week in an un-rideable state. Well, not easily. I also don't want to tear the variator apart and put it back together each night so I can experiment and still get to work in the morning. Yeah, just a bit lazy. And I'm working 7 days a week currently. Also don't have a variator removal tool or an impact wrench so I'll have to take time to fashion one. Yeah, I'm a complainer. I would estimate that I would need 6.5g sliders, based upon what other people use and my weight and the "power" of my scooter. I guess for now I'll have to assume that the clutch and springs are pretty "normal" and not stiffer ones. I have heard that the teflon coated NCY variator is not worth the extra money as the teflon wears off pretty quickly. I assume the teflon coated one and the non-teflon coated one have the same ramp angles and curvature. Here's what I'm planning on doing this month: 1. Order roller test kit. 2. Remove variator to weigh rollers and try out lighter rollers, replace everything that night. 3. Remove variator as needed to try different roller weights, replace everything that night. 4. Buy NCY variator, sliders, and 671 belt, performance intake. 5. Remove variator AGAIN to install sliders and belt. 6. Figure out a way to KEEP the PCV system tubing that goes into the pre-filter intake by routing it and using some type of oil catch system that is low maintenance. 7. Rejet carb using jets from the NRK jet kit I have. 8. Buy new carb so I can "modify" it for proper airflow including shaving the throttle blade and post. 9. Buy an aluminum intake manifold so I can port match to carb and intake plenum. 10. Swap in new carb and intake manifold. After I decide to do more drastic changes I'll do things like: 1. Replace clutch, bell, clutch springs. 2. Upsize tire when I need a new one, possibly plus size to 12" rim. 3. Replace head with performance head. 4. Port match exhaust port to exhaust manifold. 5. Install high flow muffler. I'm not planning on tearing apart the motor more than that. Before I go into getting a BBK I'll just get a 300cc motorcycle and be done with it. It's fun for now, but I don't see that spending more than $300 or so on a perfectly well running and fast scooter is worth it as I want it RUNNING and not SITTING in the garage. Greg
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Post by erictheviking666 on Aug 22, 2010 19:32:44 GMT -5
That's what I have is an NCY Teflon variator. I put it on a year ago and probably have 3,000 or 4,000 miles on it, and it still looks good. I haven't seen any premature wear at all.
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Post by mainepeace on Aug 22, 2010 19:35:55 GMT -5
Ok, NOW I'm seeing on Scrappydog scooters website the 44mm pistons for Peace Sports and VIP scooters. Either added recently or I never noticed them before. Scrappy hasn't mentioned them before either, or I haven't seen his posting if he has.
Guess that's a pretty good verification, along with lambda50's comments and the other info I have found from other websites, that the 2009 Peace Sports 50 scooters with the 1P39QMB engines ARE 63cc with a 44mm piston.
Greg
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Post by cruiser66 on Aug 22, 2010 19:41:00 GMT -5
I have a 2008 VIP50 which has no problem doing 44 to 46 mph with a 230 pound load (me). It has 6.5 gram roller weights from the factory. The head is not the same as a standard 139QMB head. Both intake and exhaust ports are 19 to 20mm wide while the ports are 17 to 18 mm on a stock 139QMB head. Here are some identifying pictures: 66
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Post by Eat Sleep Scooters on Aug 22, 2010 22:14:02 GMT -5
Its crazy how they put those light rollers in there stock. I always wondered why they stayed in the high rpm when you are on it instead of revving up, falling down, and then coming back up once you hit top speed. I also give props to peace. Comparing the 805 to the Roketa MC-109, there is a big difference in quality and speed. And the cost on a Peace is MUCH cheaper plus they arent in a million lawsuits like Roketa. I have yet to see how well Peace takes care of warranty. And since they have stock 6.5 gram rollers, I will be calling them tomorrow and having them send me some rollers out.
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Post by mainepeace on Aug 29, 2010 21:16:07 GMT -5
All I know is that as this scooter is now broken in, it's much faster than I was expecting! People tend to get used to something and it's newness or speed tends to diminish, wanting more. As I ride the scooter now as compared to when we first bought it, it definitely FEELS faster! If any of you are familiar with Maine's rolling hills near the coast, you can appreciate the feel of torque to climb those hills. I really am very satisfied with this scooter. There are only a few places where I'd like some more power, and that's low end torque to accelerate faster from 15 to 30 and maybe a bit more top end, which can be achieved with a slightly taller tire and rear gear changes. These 10" rims really can't handle much more speed than that without being too dangerous. My brakes are fine for stopping from 50 to 0 though.
We should have a Peace Sports 60 Club, or the PS60!
Greg
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Post by mainepeace on Sept 1, 2010 21:15:25 GMT -5
I *thought* I had found a way to verify the cylinder installed as being a 50 or 63, but I think I'm wrong. I found this image of a *stock* 50cc cylinder Then I came across this image of a 60cc cylinder I thought that the "extra" oil fitting hole and the 39mm larger front flange on the 63mm cylinder was THE telltale sign of a larger cylinder. Then I found this Znen 50cc cylinder that looks the same as the 63! They are all from this website www.scooterparts4less.com/Moped_Jonway50cc_QT6.htm that has 63cc engine parts. Anyway, now I'm not so sure. Any thoughts guys? I haven't seen any other 50cc 139QMB ir 1P39QMB engines so I don't know if the casting differences are relevant. I'd have to take off the body panels and the engine shroud to get a good engine of the cylinder casting to get a photo right now, and I'm not going to do that now. Greg
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Post by larrball on Sept 2, 2010 0:14:21 GMT -5
I have a 2008 VIP50 which has no problem doing 44 to 46 mph with a 230 pound load (me). It has 6.5 gram roller weights from the factory. The head is not the same as a standard 139QMB head. Both intake and exhaust ports are 19 to 20mm wide while the ports are 17 to 18 mm on a stock 139QMB head. 66 I'll chime in on this one only because i have the same VIP as cruiser66 bought from MDL BUT mine is a 2009 jonway and is stamped 139QMB no 'P'. But i hit 40-45MPH (GPS) no problem and even with my son in tow i hit 40 on a flat (with both of us riding=250PD's). Now im not going to take the head off just to look, but i thank alot has to be said that with some scoots a finely tuned CVT, no restrictions and better parts (stock) say's alot.
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Post by mainepeace on Sept 6, 2010 16:00:40 GMT -5
Here is a screenshot of my Garmin while going only 49mph! I'll try to get a 55+ shot later. Greg
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Post by mainepeace on Sept 21, 2010 23:26:26 GMT -5
Wow! The difference a proper carb tune makes!
I just spent some time with my scooter tonight and did a proper tune of the carb.
It's been getting cooler here in the morning, maybe down to 50 or so. When I would start the bike it would stumble at idle alot for the first few minutes until it warmed up. It would always catch within 1/4 second so everything "seemed" fine, just needed a small bit of cold weather tuning.
In the past, I've always had the issue where 3/4 to WOT on the throttle would do nothing. Especially going up hills, I would have NO additional acceleration after 1/2 throttle. Since I was going up the steep hills here at between 25-35 I thought it was just due to the scooter being underpowered, possibly due to an air restriction.
Well I have a 82 jet in there. Stock for the Peace Sports was ~76 or so as it was unlabeled. I went to an 84. I also finally opened up the diaphragm and raised the needle a notch (it was in the middle of 5).
The difference was night and day. I was actually accelerating in places on hills I would barely keep speed at WOT. However, it was dying at about 7/8 to full throttle so I thought maybe I needed to jet again. I pulled the spark plug to make sure it wasn't bogging from being too rich and it showed I was lean lean lean still.
I raised the needle another notch and put in an 86 jet and fiddled with the idle screw. I had drilled and removed the brass plug covering the idle screw yesterday.
All I can say is WOW!
The scooter is pulling like mad now. When I'm accelerating and flick the throttle I can actually feel acceleration from 7/8 to WOT! The scooter was fast before, but now it definitely has more pull. I might try a larger jet, but my thoughts are that it will be warmer during the day, so I should take that into consideration or it will be too rich then.
FYI, this scooter is still basically stock. Only performance mods are:
88 jet airbox restriction tube removal connecting the crankcase ventilation tube from the intake pre-filter to an unused post-filter nipple which was just capped off
The airbox is otherwise stock. Still haven't gotten an aftermarket filter yet.
If any of you are using an 88 jet on a true 49cc that is basically stock, let me know. AFAIK the only ones using an 88 jet are people with BBK's.
Does my Peace Sports 50 have a "secret 62"?? So far I'm convinced!
Greg
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Post by erictheviking666 on Sept 21, 2010 23:31:27 GMT -5
I have a #90 main jet on mine and it works great, and that's a true 49cc motor.
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Post by mainepeace on Sept 22, 2010 0:11:11 GMT -5
I have a #90 main jet on mine and it works great, and that's a true 49cc motor. True, but you have many other airflow mods as well, like intake and exhaust. I don't even have an aftermarket air filter on it yet. Greg
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Post by hardd1 on Sept 23, 2010 15:05:44 GMT -5
very interesting....does Peace use the 44mm engine in all of their 50 series scooters
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Post by gty2k2000 on Sept 29, 2010 16:30:47 GMT -5
thats some seriouse hill grades compared to here in florida.
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Post by keetarider on Sept 29, 2010 17:57:57 GMT -5
My Roketa came stock with 9 gram rollers, and my Teflon wore off my coated variator in the first 100 miles.(Not typical, Ive heard nothing but good things about the coated performance variators.) It has also been pointed out that, Rollers and Sliders come in different heights and widths as well as weights. It might do well to check ramp dimensions as well. I've had to settle for 6.5 gram Dr Pulley sliders in my old OEM variator, which gave me marked improvement, but I'm still itching to see why the NCY didn't work, and how much more improvement I can manage with a proper performance variator set up.
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Post by 00jamiejohnson00 on Feb 8, 2011 20:26:11 GMT -5
i can also verify that these are 44mm pistons with a conical cut in the head to match the cylinder, and the cam lobes have a wider /longer duration, but are the same height as stock lobes. i just got a 50mm kit for it and cant decide if i should use a stock camshaft , or this one with the longer duration which i assume would lower compression some. i am going to use the hi performance head that came with the kit . what doo you guys think? longer duration cam lobe or shorter ( drops off sooner) cam lobe?
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Post by jkeve2010 on Feb 8, 2011 21:30:30 GMT -5
i think this is how peace gets yall to buy there scooters ahahaha
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Post by qwertydude on Feb 9, 2011 22:55:51 GMT -5
My Baja sc50 which is the same style as the Peace scooter used to top out at 42 mph stock with the intake restrictor removed, and the needle clip moved down one notch, 45 mph was possible given a long enough. It was a 1P39QMB, it has the pair system originally which I disabled. It wasn't a 60cc, when I upgraded it to the 72cc kit I looked at the old piston and it was 39mm wide. Now it does 47 mph with the bbk but I put the air restrictor back in because it's too noisy with it removed and my mpg went down considerably from 120 mpg with a bbk down to only 90 mpg, I also have the accelerator pump on the carb disabled.
But I also don't like running with the restrictor removed because it's put in to automatically compensate for changes in altitude and temperature. You'll find with a wide open intake your fuel mix will vary much more, your scooter will be very sensitive to altitude and temperature changes, on a warm day you'll be running rich and losing power and on cold days it'll stumble and hesitate, don't even think about climbing more than a 1000 feet. Whereas with the restrictor I only lose maybe a mph but can climb 4000 ft in altitude and not suffer any hiccups. I think the best thing to do for power is to simply rejet the scooter correctly, the restrictor doesn't seem to rob you of power as much as incorrect jetting from the factory.
So I believe that a 1P39QMB is no guarantee of 60cc, but it's possible that the minimalist design of the Peace Sports 50cc, Baja SC50 and similar designs are probably more aerodynamic than the average clunky "classic" scooter designs usually sold as 50cc. I say aerodynamics plays the biggest role in top speed because I had a BMS V9 Evo which never went more than 57 mph and I know other scooters with the exact same engine but smaller thinner bodies easily topped 62 mph and the Buddy 125 with an even smaller engine but nonetheless still a GY6 I know did easily 65 mph. The Buddy was as small as the Peace Sports 50cc even had 10" wheels. I think almost everyone else reporting high speeds pretty much has these smaller sleeker scooters and the 1P39QMB designation with a 60cc engine was more a fluke than a guarantee of 60cc engine.
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Post by jkeve2010 on Feb 9, 2011 23:04:59 GMT -5
my roketa maui doesnt have a p engine code and came stock with 6.6 gram rollers.... my seems quick too though....with little mods got 44 on the gps
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Post by braveheart on Feb 10, 2011 7:30:33 GMT -5
2010 Fly/Znen IL Bello 50cc: Did 40+ all the time stock. On installing the 80cc/50mm BBK, the stock cyl was oversized(60cc/43mm). Could be the Znen made scooters. Im not sure if your Peace is Znen made. Check the ID plate...
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