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Post by frank on Sept 29, 2009 21:54:37 GMT -5
I am thinking about going to a elect. fuel pump. I want to get away from vacuum pump. Now my question is which is the better elect. fuel pump. I have a 250B Roketa. 257cc. I want a pump that works great at WOT. One that will last for a year or two. I don't want to get ripped off on the price but I don't want to be a cheep person. who only wants to save a dime. Also one that is easy to install.
Any dawgs that have changed to elect fuel pumps could you give pro and con.
Thanks
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Post by cruiser66 on Sept 29, 2009 22:18:49 GMT -5
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Post by winchesterboy on Sept 30, 2009 0:53:47 GMT -5
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Post by chaz12 on Sept 30, 2009 2:06:29 GMT -5
I have a Roketa Bali 250cc scooter. Everyone complains about the vacuum hoses, but I have had my Roketa Bali 250cc scooter 19 months and never changed a hose nor vacuum line. Engine is running perfect still. I will change out parts over the winter( hoses, whole new brake systems, new tires, new throttle cable). Why? Because parts do wear out and I want to be able to stop and go when needed. Tires wear alot and we depend on them to not blow out. But the fuel pump has lasted about 2 years with original parts placed on scooter. I start it up in the winter on days above freezing. I don't empty the gas tank like some. I figure, if on warm days above freeze, that I start up my scooter( fuel is running through the hoses, engine is running making parts function correctly, and if roads are clear of snow and ice well riding around the neighborhood is good for it.. Stopping by the filling station for some more gas is good too. I live in Missouri where it gets down to 20 degree at night in December and 30's for the highs usually. Some days may drop to 10 above zero and rise to 17 for a high. But it never stays at one temp.. Usually every 8 days, I can start the scooter when temps do get above 32 degrees. Some January days get above 60 degrees called a warm spell before returning to winter. Snow generall falls 3 to 6 times per season. Being 2 to 4 inches per snow fall, but it to melts off in 3 to 5 days. But work I have done to mine: Changed starter, changed windshield, changed counter, changed headlight, changed battery.. Maintenance gear oil, oil, rear and front bearing grease, adjust valves, adjust carb, change spark plugs, check air filters, check tires, check for loose bolts, check belt, check fuses,.. Changed valve stems.. Basic maintenance. Check antifreeze level. But again, mine has lasted longer than 1 months and runs great. No oil drips neither.
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Post by JR on Sept 30, 2009 7:07:20 GMT -5
www.oregonvintage.com/Fuelsys2.pdfHere's the scoop on the fuel pumps read it and then decide also look at these, www.heeters.com/snbpa.shtml#snb-fuelpumpsCheaper to buy, takes 10 minutes to install and if ya have something happen as gas with ethanol eventually eating it up then you can get a $14 rebuild kit! I'm like Chaz and still have my OEM pump on my scooter and yes they can go bad but you have other options too. JRR
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Post by frank on Sept 30, 2009 22:00:08 GMT -5
Thanks to all Dawgs. I think that I am going with the 42S elect. fuel pump.
I have no problem with the fuel pump that is on it now but I have had problems with the
vacuum lines. I take 30 and 40 mile treks out into the country side, on lonely country roads.
I don't want to brake down because of a vacuum line. I am going to leave the vacuum pump on the bike and just block the vacuum line. that way if the elect. fuel pumps go's up then I can just put back the vacuum pump. and I won't be stranded.
I want to thank all you .
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Post by JR on Oct 1, 2009 7:42:49 GMT -5
If all you're concerned about is the vacuum lines then why don't you spend less time than to PROPERLY put on an electric fuel pump and about $10 to just replace the vacuum lines? Have you really considered the cost and time to put on an electric fuel pump, plus if you just let the vacuum one sit then who's to say it will work down the road? Also if you're so worried that the vacuum lines will give out they can still do that and not be any good if needed in the future. Electric fuel pump done PROPERLY with roll over switch over $100 and at least a full 12 hour day to install. Replace vacuum lines and GOOD vacuum pump less than $50 and 2 hours? I've drove my scooter over 300 miles one way have yet to have a failure and I ride a lot in the country too! JRR  |
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Post by monkeywrench on Oct 1, 2009 13:08:15 GMT -5
I'm with jrryan. Dropped a Mikuni DF-52 in mine, no fuel supply issues.
In my mind, installing an electric pump right will take a while. My wrinkle is where to get the power from, and it would have to be two places to mimic the operation of the vacuum pump.
I'd get power from the starter motor circuit, and from the headlight circuit, with blocking diodes. That way, it runs when you're cranking, and then when the engine is running. If the engine dies and the headlights go out, fuel pump stops.
That should make the rollover switch unnecessary, but I'd still use it for good measure.
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Post by frank on Oct 1, 2009 21:16:07 GMT -5
Thanks for you input and I am glad that you are happy with vacuum pumps but I have used elect. pumps on trucks and cars and have had no problems. That is why I wanted to go elect.
If you don't like elect. pumps then I think that it is great that you use vacuum pumps. But I am going elect. Please don't take this as a snub or a smart remark. I just made up my mind to go elect.
and once I make up my mind that is it.
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Post by JR on Oct 1, 2009 21:36:59 GMT -5
Well I hope you have the very best of luck really and for safety reasons I would implore you to put the roll over switch on! I also do not consider an electric fuel pump for a scooter for personal reasons as I had a sister that had 99% of her body burned on a scooter due to gasoline!
Scooter a whole different ball game compared to a car or truck! JRR
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Post by chaz12 on Oct 2, 2009 0:32:33 GMT -5
Well keep us informed on how your decision goes? We hope it goes safely, but a little skeptical that it will work better than a vacuum pump..
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Post by christoforous on Oct 2, 2009 9:23:57 GMT -5
Its great that we all have choices, electric or vacuum, i am partial to the JRRYAN school of thought-"if it aint broke, dont fix it!"
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Post by monkeywrench on Oct 7, 2009 15:05:22 GMT -5
Don't get me wrong; I agree that an electric fuel pump is functionally superior even to an upgraded vacuum pump. The only thing that kept me from putting one on mine was the time/money factor--the exact same reason these scooters come with a vacuum pump in the first place.
I do however like the inherent safety that comes with the vacuum pump--it only runs when the engine is turning over. And I came close enough to deciding to install one to have thought through how to make an electric pump behave the same way. If anybody thinks my system as posted above makes sense (or not) or decides to try it, I'd love to hear about it.
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Post by frank on Oct 7, 2009 22:08:22 GMT -5
I did a test on my scooter today. It still has the vacuum pump on it.
I started is and took a short ride till it got warmed up then I slowly lower it on its right side while it was still running. It keep running for about a minute or two and I picked it up cause I did not want to hurt the engine by running it on its side. It still was running till I shut it off. Maybe a turnover switch should be on elect and vacuum Pumps so that it will kill the engine. If the scooter goes down.
just a though
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Post by JR on Oct 8, 2009 17:43:11 GMT -5
I did a test on my scooter today. It still has the vacuum pump on it. I started is and took a short ride till it got warmed up then I slowly lower it on its right side while it was still running. It keep running for about a minute or two and I picked it up cause I did not want to hurt the engine by running it on its side. It still was running till I shut it off. Maybe a turnover switch should be on elect and vacuum Pumps so that it will kill the engine. If the scooter goes down. just a though Most definitely on electric as when you go down a lot of times the scooter dies and if the key or power is still on then fuel keeps pumping not a pretty sight if you're on fire! Vacuum engine dies so does the fuel! Now to this statement of electric being superior, well let's see I still have my OEM vacuum fuel pump on my 150 and my 250B both run fine in fact the 250B will hit 80 MPH, none of the so-called fuel starvation, both are over a year old, The 150 gets 80+ mpg, the 250B gets 75 MPG, if either one does go out 10 minutes to replace, 1/3 of the cost, can rebuild it! Now electric, well let's see, all day to properly put it on, 3X's the cost, and if it goes out buy another one and replace!! Now how is that superior?  ? Ya know I go a long way back to when we had the old bolt on fuel pumps on car engines, yea they occasionally went out but when we came out with the superior electric fuel pumps especially the brilliant in the tank ones like on my S-10 the 30 minute $25 replacement went to $300, pull the fricking gas tank and lot's of cussing plus a whole day wasted if you were lucky!!! Far superior!! Yea Right! LOL JRR |
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Post by frank on Oct 8, 2009 23:23:29 GMT -5
monkeywrench,
You said that you would hook the fuel pump to the starter motor circuit I would like to do the same where would I hook the red wire from the pump and if I hook it to the headlight circuit also, would not the starter stay on when the engine starts. Just some questions that I would like to know.
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Post by monkeywrench on Oct 9, 2009 7:48:29 GMT -5
Frank, note that I add blocking diodes. They keep the starter motor from putting power to the headlights, or the headlights putting power to the starter motor.
Without trying to do a graphic, the diode is depicted as something like an arrowhead with a bar across the front--I'll ignore the bar. The back of the arrow is the anode. When it's + (hot in a negative ground circuit) relative to the front of the arrow, the cathode, it passes current. When it's -, it blocks current.
So from the starter motor hot side, a wire would go to the anode side of the diode and then from the cathode to the pump motor. Likewise the headlights, from the hot side of the headlights to the anode of the diode, then from the cathode to the pump motor. If you use the rollover switch, it would go between the diodes and pump motor.
I think I'd want diodes rated for 50VDC and 5A minimum.
So let me try a text graphic (|< represents the diode):
Starter + ----------->|----To rollover sw/fuel pump---|<---------- Headlights +
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Post by scootondown on Oct 9, 2009 12:16:43 GMT -5
no, no, and no. those circuits are for those things-the proper way is to find the ignition "on" side of the key switch and wire straight to the battery with a separate circuit using a 12v relay and fuse which will go right under the battery cover on a 250B. that way when the key is off the pump is off, and the pump draw doesnt take from other circuits.
scootondown
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Post by frank on Oct 10, 2009 0:46:25 GMT -5
Thanks dawgs
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Post by monkeywrench on Oct 10, 2009 17:46:48 GMT -5
Scootondown, my point is precisely NOT to have the pump powered all the time the ignition is on, but to have it powered to mimic the vacuum pump. I think those circuits could handle the extra amp, using my circuit to engage a relay that would switch the pump would certainly be a viable way to do it, and would allow for lighter diodes.
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