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Post by friedshrimp on Jun 25, 2009 5:56:51 GMT -5
Okay..new Jmstar Cruiser(?) 250, 625 miles on it. Runs great but at about 275 miles, notcied started didn't spin as fast and at 330 miles, no start at all (all other electronics run okay, just no starting). Bought at B&M, took it there (and had to listen to the evils of jumping from a non-running car, too many amps...etc...), so after 3 days, he says it's ready, it was a bad battery (and charged me the disposal fee even though it's under warrenty). Well, last night, went to go to Woody's (love their salads) and same thing! It sitting at about 625 miles. So, obviously the alternater is not putting out voltage (or enough to charge the battery) or do you think I could really get 2 crappy batteries in a month??? And is there really any issue with jumping from a car battery when the car is not running? My experience with electronics tells me that a device only draws what it needs so no harm should be done. Thanks for any input.
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Post by ges55 on Jun 25, 2009 7:45:12 GMT -5
You need to confirm whether or not your charging system is working. The battery will need to be charged, then get a voltmeter & check the battery voltage while it's not running. Start it up & the battery voltage should be at least 1 volt more than it was while it was not running. If the voltage stays the same or is dropping, there are several things that could be wrong. On mine, it was a connector on one of the yellow wires in the regulator & diode area. These are probably located under the panel about where the passengers' right leg would be. The diode has fins on it. You could also have a bad regulator. I think there is a great post under the how-to section regarding how to check the regulator & charging system.
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Post by Gary on Jun 25, 2009 7:47:53 GMT -5
FS -
You are right - the stuff about jumping from a car battery is BS. And most liklely, your problem is (was) a charging problem, not a battery poblem. Check the votage across the battery with the scoot running. It should be around 14.5 volts if the charging system is working.
There could be several causes for non-charging, but a common one on Honda style engines a while back was a defective heat sink resistor diode. This is a cheap $10 part. I had a bad one and my scoot wouldn't charge. Try replacing it and see if that doesn't solve the problem....
Gary
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Post by ges55 on Jun 25, 2009 7:51:49 GMT -5
I forgot to tell you that while you are checking the battery voltage with it running, you will need to have it on the center stand & give it some gas. Make sure that your tire is not on the ground so that your scooter won't take off. Good Luck!
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Post by unaggie on Jun 25, 2009 11:16:02 GMT -5
Man, I do so dislike electrical problems...hard to tell where the leaks are. I just went through this same deal with my son's scooter. It's an mc-13-250. His symptoms were exactly as yours are. Loosing battery power while riding. We did as ges55 suggests with the VOM. Sure enough, 12.5V with engine stopped, 11.5 with it running ie: no charging. I was ready to start changing parts but one of our colleagues here stressed the chance of a loose connection. That was it. One of the three big yellow wires coming from the stator had a loose connection with a really poor quality spade clip at fault. A little squeeze of the pliers and a cable tie or two and we're back to 13.5V when running above idle. Hope yours works out that way.
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Post by friedshrimp on Jun 25, 2009 11:44:31 GMT -5
Thanks for the input guys. A bone to all of you. If I need to go down this road I will, because otherwise, the bike runs great and my missus loves riding 2up with me (still woking on the topless deal, but that's another story....lol). My biggest gripe is that the bike is STILL under warrenty from the B&M and my wife called him today and again, he just wants to change the battery. He doesn't even want me to bring the bike in, just bring the battery to swap!!! This lack of customer service really ticks me off. Going on vacation tomorrow, so this will have to wait a week, but I think I'll take it to the B&M guy and let him do what he thinks is right (read easy thing he can do), then do the checks like y'all said (thanks for telling me exactly what I should read), and if they don't measure up, take it right back to him!
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Post by firstscoot on Jun 25, 2009 14:21:44 GMT -5
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Post by pegster on Jun 25, 2009 19:55:19 GMT -5
I had the same problem. My problem was that I left my key in the ignition. The alarm kept cycling and draining the battery. I'am not so dumb any more and scoot is running great.
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Post by rjdoles on Jul 6, 2009 20:16:22 GMT -5
Not sure what the dealers explanation was for not jumping with a non-running car but that is the safer way to jump a scooter.
The voltage regulator on a scooter is a crude design that minimizes size, weight and complexity. They regulate the voltage in a different way than the automotive regulator.
When jump-starting, you are connecting a car battery that can provide up to 500 amps to a scooter starter motor that normally starts on a battery that may be able to provide up to 75 amps. The starter will spin just fine without the car running.
With the car running, the car charging system could possibly raise the voltage high enough to damage the scooter's lower capacity voltage regulator.
To be on the safe side, you should always jump from a car that is not running.
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Post by friedshrimp on Jul 16, 2009 13:21:17 GMT -5
Back from vacation after 3 weeks and can finally get to work on this electrical problem.
RJDoles - No reason given, just inherently evil, will hurt the electronincs (we both know as long as the voltage is correct, the starter will only draw the amperage it needs to turn, it's not a pig!!!!). The couple of times I did it, the car engine was always turned off and I know no damage to the scooter was done.
To All - Okay, I charged my battery with a trickle charger, verified it started (proving the battery will hold a charge and is good), check voltage and is 13.0 VDC with the ignition off. Start the bike and voltage is 13.2 VDC at idle and 13.8 VDC at about 4,500 RPM. So it seems the charging system is putting out but just not enough?!? From what I've read here, I'm assuming I should be getting about 14.5 VDC to ensure the battery stays charged, is this correct? Just want to have all my ducks in a row before I go see the dealer. The reason I haven't tried to clean the ground (if that is possible the problem) to see if that helps is due to having to remove panels to get to it and since it's under warrenty, I believe the dealer should take care of that. Thanks for everyones help.
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Post by Riddick79 on Jul 16, 2009 23:53:38 GMT -5
I also had a charging problem and the problem was bad connection at one of the wires that connects to the fuse box. I forgot what wire it was, but you should check them all.
Also check the yellow wires coming off the stator, like mentioned above.
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Post by Gary on Jul 17, 2009 9:13:00 GMT -5
AS Riddick noted, loose connections at the fuse box is a common problem. The fuse looks to be seated but theconnector pushes out the back of the box. Would be an easy thing to check before you hassle with taking the scoot back to the dealer. Aslos as Riddick suggested, check the three yellow wires coming off the stator, on the right side of the scoot. One of those could be bad or loose.
If those aren't the problem, and you do go back to the dealer be sure to tell him to check the diode. That would be my guess as the next most likely reason for not charging.
Gary
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Post by sam2000pres on Jul 30, 2009 13:56:34 GMT -5
AS Riddick noted, loose connections at the fuse box is a common problem. The fuse looks to be seated but theconnector pushes out the back of the box. Would be an easy thing to check before you hassle with taking the scoot back to the dealer. Aslos as Riddick suggested, check the three yellow wires coming off the stator, on the right side of the scoot. One of those could be bad or loose. If those aren't the problem, and you do go back to the dealer be sure to tell him to check the diode. That would be my guess as the next most likely reason for not charging. Gary I have had similar issues, did find a broken wire on the stator of my new replacement 244 CF Moto engine, now all is well. Thanks all for the great info and clues! TK |
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