|
|
Post by haakon59 on Apr 4, 2009 20:02:27 GMT -5
I am still a few months off from having the money for a bike, but I have run across a pretty nice deal for a used 500cc bike. In some ways, I would like to take advantage of this--I want good gas mileage but like the idea of being able to travel on the freeway comfortably too. My problem is that at the moment, I have no comparison. I have sat on some of the bigger scooters, even the Burgman 650, and didnt' feel they weighed too much, etc., even when not operating. I guess I am assuming the learning curve for riding a scooter will be reasonable short. I have been planning to start with a 250, but do you think it would be a problem to start with a 500 instead (mainly because I will be getting such a good deal)? Will it be harder to learn to ride or really not much of an issue? I am sort of guessing it will not be a problem, after all, I don't have to ride fast until I am used to it. What is your advice?
|
|
|
|
Post by ifly1956 on Apr 4, 2009 20:05:51 GMT -5
Depends - if the bike in question is a 500cc crotch rocket, I don't think it would be a good beginner bike. A 500cc KYmco - Yes. Both are the same size, but both handle entirely different.
What is the 500cc bike you are looking at. It's kind of hard to compare when we don't know what we are comparing.
~IFLY~
|
|
|
|
Post by haakon59 on Apr 4, 2009 20:43:06 GMT -5
Good point: the bike is an Aprilia 500i (I think this year they have named them 500ie, or something). I expect that it will ride much better on freeways or the highway, for that matter. The weight seems reasonable as well. But since I have no experience yet, I thought it would be better to ask everyone here what they think. Thanks. I should mention that if the shop sells this bike before I get the money together, I will likely go for a 250. Comments?
|
|
|
|
Post by jake318 on Apr 4, 2009 21:10:47 GMT -5
haak... No one twists your arm to twist the throttle . A 500cc bike can do 30mph or 100 MPHits up to you . That being said, if you have enough concern to ask the question on a forum , you should have the sence not to go splitting lanes ect at 100mph .... Youll be fine with a 500cc bike Jake
|
|
|
|
Post by haakon59 on Apr 4, 2009 21:18:32 GMT -5
That is my thinking too Jake--obviously you are right about being able to go 30 mph or 100 mph. I was guessing it would be OK, and this is a good deal, so I thought I would ask around. Besides, I am middle age and my hot-dogging days are over, I just want to commute and have fun. Thanks for your input.
|
|
|
|
Post by glassvial on Apr 4, 2009 21:23:39 GMT -5
haak... No one twists your arm to twist the throttle . A 500cc bike can do 30mph or 100 MPHits up to you . That being said, if you have enough concern to ask the question on a forum , you should have the sence not to go splitting lanes ect at 100mph .... Youll be fine with a 500cc bike Jake What he said. I'm guessing you haven't taken your road test yet based on your comments. Not sure what the road test in your area is like, but around here you have to do tight circles on narrow roads, that would be harder on a bike with a lot more power, unless you really learn how to go EASY on the throttle. You'll have to practice a lot. Nice looking bike though if you decide to go for it, good luck. |
|
|
|
Post by harrywr2 on Apr 4, 2009 21:33:11 GMT -5
] What he said. I'm guessing you haven't taken your road test yet based on your comments. Not sure what the road test in your area is like, but around here you have to do tight circles on narrow roads, that would be harder on a bike with a lot more power, unless you really learn how to go EASY on the throttle. You'll have to practice a lot. Nice looking bike though if you decide to go for it, good luck. In the hands of a responsible driver a 500cc is not a problem. Living in the same county as Haakon...the road test has been deliberately designed to "strongly encourage" you to take the MSF course. I got my permit for the 150...went down to the DOL testing facility on a Sunday...practiced the course for a couple of hours...tooled over to the MSF course...rode their course...and paid my money for the MSF course. I also got some valuabe tips from the MSF instructors. |
|
|
|
Post by haakon59 on Apr 5, 2009 0:14:08 GMT -5
Thanks for your replies--I do plan to take the MSF course. But my understanding is that they have you ride a Honda 250 Rebel, which I understand is pretty reasonable to maneuver.
I was eventually thinking maybe a 500 or 650 might be the way to go, but most of my riding is going to be in the city at 30 mph, so a 250 would work for that. But this deal would allow me to buy the 500 for less money than a new 250 and the bike has less than 1,000 miles on it, which seems like a good deal. On the other hand, I don't want to be overwhelmed at first either. I am guessing it will be OK because I am a "sober" person, but I realize that experience can be quite helpful. I have sat on the bike and it seemed fine to me, but I didn't actually ride it. Thanks, I appreciate the input.
|
|
|
|
Post by harrywr2 on Apr 5, 2009 10:26:06 GMT -5
Thanks for your replies--I do plan to take the MSF course. But my understanding is that they have you ride a Honda 250 Rebel, which I understand is pretty reasonable to maneuver. The Kirkland MSF location has a couple of beater 150cc Vespa's....even if you are taking the "Motorcycle" course you can request one. A bit boring while everyone else spends time with 'clutch' drills. Some of the 'tricks' to get a scooter into a hard lean are a bit different then a motorcycle since you have no gas tank between your knees. For me the emergency lane change practice was probably the most valuable part of the course. If you can manage a midweek course they are better because the class size tends to be smaller and older. |
|
|
|
Post by Gary on Apr 5, 2009 13:20:19 GMT -5
Ditto what Harry said about the MSF course. The California motorcycle course is also totally absurd. They make you go through some unrealistically tight curves without putting your feet down, which I hink would be the normal and safest thing you'd do in that situation. I took the MSF course and found it valuable. Where I took it they had a couple of almost brand new Lance 150s. As Harry said the clutch drill were worthless, but some of the others were good. It was fun going over obstacles - could get air with the 150 if I timed it right. Here they allow you to bring your own scoot, but only up to 250cc.
Gary
|
|
|
|
Post by haakon59 on Apr 5, 2009 16:38:13 GMT -5
I was planning on using the Honda 250 Rebel for the MSF course. My feeling is that I might as well learn to use the clutch, but I think I will buy a scooter once I am finished. Until the last few years, I drove a car with a clutch, so the concept will be the same. On another forum I have visited with mostly people interested in motorcycles, they tell me they passed the course even though they had zero experience with motorcycles. They did say that you don't usually shift out of first gear, though even when you are finished, you will want to practice a little. Some guys even told me that they picked up their first bike with a trailor in order to drop it off at an empty parking lot so they could practice for a bit before riding in traffic. You have to get your "coordination" down a bit.
At the Downtown Seattle/Renton MSF course location, they told me that if I wanted to train on a scooter, I would need to provide my own, so I just basically decided I would use the Honda they provide.
|
|
|
|
Post by Gary on Apr 6, 2009 9:14:19 GMT -5
Those bikes look fun. I considered purposely flunking the drivers test at the end so I could retake the course (for free) on the Rebels. But I was too anxious to get my rela license and didn't do it.
|
|
|
|
Post by haakon59 on Apr 6, 2009 12:57:42 GMT -5
Your story hit me kinda funny this morning and I laughed out loud. I guess that I have been so worried about passing the course, I never considered the possibility that it would be fun! The Honda Rebel 250 is well liked by many people and I understand it is very reliable and "hardy". A good bike for a beginner. I did sit on it at a store and I liked it and the low weight made it seem ideal for maneuvering when you are just starting. Even more nimble was the Kawasaki Ninja 250, inho, but the riding position wasn't as comfortable for me. Of course, I haven't ridden either one yet, so I have a lot of fun to look foward to!
|
|
|
|
Post by dumbass on Apr 6, 2009 13:21:31 GMT -5
I am still a few months off from having the money for a bike, but I For what it's worth I wouldn't blow my money buying a 250 if I didn't think it was going to satisfy me or be my long term bike. Unless of course you don't know what else to do with your money. In which case I can send you my name and address and you can skip the middle man and just send me a check. I'll know what to do with it. Without question the bigger the scooter the safer it is to ride. Especially in the highways or 2 up. That being said remember scooters are just like cars in many ways. The bigger the motor or the heavier the scooter the more fuel they will suck. If that's not in your equation then no problem. But don't get bent out of shape when you aren't getting 60, 70 or more MPG on a 500 cc scooter. |
|
|
|
Post by haakon59 on Apr 6, 2009 18:35:23 GMT -5
If the dealer still has the used 500 by the time I get the money, I am inclined to go for that because it will be such a great deal. But I haven't decided what to do if he has sold it by then. I guess I could see myself going for either a 250, or 400, or 500 bike. But you are right, I will want to choose carefully because I don't exactly have money laying around. Gas mileage is a bit of a concern and currently, I don't have much of a commute, so perhaps a 250 will do the trick. Maybe the Burgman 400 would be the perfect size?
|
|
|
|
Post by quail on Apr 6, 2009 21:47:35 GMT -5
I ride a 31 year old cb750, and it handles like a mule compared to my wifes mc250b or my 1500 Vulcan. BUT when the Honda's pegs are grinding on the tarmac and your twisting for even more you will never regret more power. The truth be known, no throttle responds fast enough or has to much power. When I bought the Vulcan I thought this has to be enough....well that 2000 I plan on test riding this summer looks pretty exciting. Buy the 500 before someone else does.
I believe it takes 4 different bikes (different styles) to make a man truly happy.
Scooter .. Because life should be this simple
Antique... Because History is just to cool.
Cruser.... You want to ride from point A to B in comfort
1100 cc + Crotch Rocket.. You like to laugh at the sound of that guy screaming in you helmet
Just my 2 cents.
|
|
|
|
Post by mafunsalow on Apr 6, 2009 22:35:43 GMT -5
You will get into at least second gear during the MSF for the emergency stop. Using their bikes is definately the way to go. Nothing to worry about. Everybody takes it is nervous and the instructors are used to it and know how to keep people calm and have fun.
As far as what size bike? I know you said you are just going to commute at 30 mph in the city. That's a great plan but then your gonna hang out with other riders and after you go for your first "Sunday ride" your plans WILL change and you will want more. ;D
The only time you notice the weight difference is when you stop, so if you don't find a 400 or 500 too heavy I'd go that route.
|
|
|
|
Post by cat0020 on Apr 7, 2009 8:44:23 GMT -5
How big/tall are you? how much do you weigh?
|
|
|
|
Post by harrywr2 on Apr 7, 2009 10:10:54 GMT -5
I have to lean a bit towards quails position of multiple bikes.
The ragdoll handling(You can toss the bike around like a rag doll) a smaller, lighter bike will have is a plus in town at < 40 MPH. It's a minus on the open road at 40+ MPH because Mr Wind can also toss the bike around like a ragdoll.
From a safety standpoint multiple bikes isn't a good idea for a newbie. It takes a couple of thousand miles for an experienced rider to 'become one' with a new bike.
|
|
|
|
Post by haakon59 on Apr 7, 2009 13:25:17 GMT -5
Thanks, lots of great advice.
If I had enough money, etc., I would go for more than one bike, maybe a 250 for short jaunts around the city and a 650 Burgman for the Highway/Freeway.
I have also thought about buying a motorcycle, to start with, perhaps a Kawasaki 500 Vulcan. So, I will either go with a motorcycle and stick with that for a bit, or a scooter, but I worry about having my motor skills confused, especially when first riding, so I plan to do what Harrywr2 suggested, stick with one bike and focus on gaining experience--ie, road awareness on a bike. So, I will either get a motorcycle and stick with one for a bit, or a scooter and stick with that for a while. At the moment, I think I will go with the Scooter.
But I have also been considering getting a bigger bike to start with and the feedback here has assauged my concerns about the 500cc scooter being too big for a beginner. On the other hand, I will stay away from Sport configured motorcycles, I realize they would be a bit too challenging for a new rider because they have such strong acceleration abilities--besides, I am more of a Cruiser or Scooter guy. I appreciate the reminders about the wind making me "ragdoll-like" if I go with the 250--I will have to consider that. At first, I am only going to have the money for one bike, so perhaps I should focus on 500 or 650, that might be the ultimate in flexibillity--I can ride on the freeway or highways when I am ready and use it in the city too.
I have been visiting all kinds of dealers (scooter AND motorcycle)
throughout the city of Seattle, and I talk to the salespeople to hear their opinions about everything, which has been informative as well. Actually, I can't wait to get going once I have the money.
|
|
|
|
Post by earlwb on Apr 7, 2009 17:42:34 GMT -5
Well, I was once in a dealer, and they were trying to sell a newbie on getting a 850 and that it would work good as a beginner bike. They had a good speech going, so since the speech was so polished they had been doing it.
Harley pushes their 883cc Sportsters as beginner bikes too.
Once upon a time a person could start to learn on a 50cc to 125cc bike, then move up to a 250 or 350, then to a 500 or 650 or 750. But today they don't really have any small bikes left to do that with anymore. I started with a 100cc bike and worked my way up like once should.
But one doesn't have the choices anymore to do it like that nowadays.
So all I can say, is be very careful for the first 4,000 miles as that is where you are at highest risk of getting into trouble on a bike of any kind. The more powerful the engine the more respect and care it needs.
|
|
|
|
Post by haakon59 on Apr 7, 2009 17:52:02 GMT -5
Several of the motorcycle dealers did try to sell me on a 750cc bike as a first bike, which I thought at the time was far too big. Actually, it surprised me a little because I told them I was a beginner and that I didn't even have my endorsement yet. Perhaps when you are used to riding, it seems like no big deal, although I am guessing they will also earn higher commissions on bigger bikes that cost more. I am planning on going with either a 250, 400, or 500cc bike. Actually, I am leaning towards the 500 at the moment. But I do agree with you, I will want to be careful and ride carefully, especially at first.
|
|
|
|
Post by quail on Apr 7, 2009 22:26:29 GMT -5
The Msf is a must if your going to ride anywhere. Hundreds of gallons of gas on a bike you feel comfortable on with make you a Good rider. Another vehicle or solid object will make you dead, crippled, or a very very good rider. I started on a Honda 90 and then found the 350's! Of course today the 250 motorcycles out perform the 400's of yester year. I love power, but my wifes Roketa 250 made me remember why I love the ride. If it was a 500 I think it could be the best all around bike for anything EXCEPT extended travel on the interstate. The wind out there will wear you out. As much as I love to twist it ,I am getting tired of replacing tires. I have become a closet scooter rider.
|
|
|
|
Post by mgreenfield on Apr 9, 2009 19:52:11 GMT -5
You dont want a bike that is "twitchy", ....lotsa' power, narrow powerband w fast rise, short wheelbase, etc. Just too easy to get in over your head on such. So, Kaw Ninja500, definitely no. Kaw cruiser500 probably OK.
|
|
|
|
Post by kens97sto171 on Apr 9, 2009 23:15:15 GMT -5
I would go for the Aprilla 500 if you can. 500cc is not gonna be to crazy on a scooter. Scoots just don't accelerate like a bike. A 650 Burger has the same top speed and 0-0 as a Ninja 250... speaking of that. The Ninja 250 is not a bad choice if your Apprilla500 falls thru... It is very light, and easy to handle, but has enough power to be fun. But not enough to do a wheelie easily.. Also top speed is about 110MPH so freeway is no problem at all. Not sure i would want to ride cross country on one.. But people do it. The 08 is HOT looking, but I found the older ones to be a more comfortable riding position. Also the suspension is softer.. (too soft really) but that makes for a nice ride. I would definatly check one out.. but everyone is different.. it may not be comfortable for you.
ken
|
|
|
|
Post by haakon59 on Apr 10, 2009 19:29:49 GMT -5
You dont want a bike that is "twitchy", ....lotsa' power, narrow powerband w fast rise, short wheelbase, etc. Just too easy to get in over your head on such. So, Kaw Ninja500, definitely no. Kaw cruiser500 probably OK. Thanks, this is what the guy at the Kawasaki/Honda store said. Still not sure what I am going to do yet. |
|
|
|
Post by photoman2k on Apr 11, 2009 0:31:39 GMT -5
You might want to call around to see if anyone has a Yamaha Majesty 400. Superb scoot. Very stable and comfortable. Tacoma Motor Sports had some a few months ago. You can call them at 253-564-8678. Hope this helps.
Photoman2k
|
|
|
|
Post by crfcom on Apr 11, 2009 7:48:59 GMT -5
FWIW I'll offer my two bits. "Fast" is relative. If you've been riding 250cc scoots, a 500 is really fast. My last was a 1000cc sportbike, and from where I am, a "fast" 500cc scooter doesn't exist. Besides, as stated above, they come with throttles which you control.
I think that what gets overlooked most often is the weight of the vehicle. A 500cc scooter is going to be heavier than a lot of motorcycles. What's even more important is the center of gravity (CG). That's how high or low in the chasis the weight is. I don't know how big you are, but, at some point, you will probably have to pick whatever you buy up off the pavement.
There's only one way to know if you will be able to do it, and I suggest trying it before you purchase rather than after.
A 535cc Yamaha Virago will be much easier to pick up than a 500cc scoot. Lighter and much lower CG. Go try it. There's no comparison.
Some of these scooters have very low CG's, Linhai-powered 250's, and some are very high.
Something to think about, and this is the time to do it.
|
|
|
|
Post by oldf on Apr 11, 2009 8:46:07 GMT -5
Be for your even think of putting money down on a bike.
Put some down to take a MSF riding class.
Use an abuse there bikes an pick the brains of the highly trained
Riding instructors.
The only motorcycle company that thinks a 500 is a good beginners bike is Harley Davidson only because they don't make any thing smaller. Some thing to think about.
|
|
|
|
Post by Gary on Apr 11, 2009 10:00:51 GMT -5
Haakon -
Another thing to consider is whether you'll use the bigger bike for everydy stuff as uch as you'd use a smaller scoot. I use my 250 for everything. Commuting to work, short trips to the market, the occasional short hop on the freeway, and some road trips for fun. More power for the freeway would be nice, but on the other hand the 250 is light enough that I can get it in and out of the garage easily, can maneuver it easily around small parking spaces, etc. Not ownng a 500 or bigger scoot, but just having seen them, they give me the impression of being enough bigger and heavier that I wouldn't use it for everyday stuff like going to the market. I don't know - maybe yud get used to the bigger bike and it wouldn't be a problem. I jst find the 25 size is pretty nice for an all-around scoot, and the bigger bikes may be more for specialized uses like cruising.
So, I think Id lean to getting a 250 china scoot to start and see if it doesn't meet your needs. Prices are getting riduculosly low - you can pick a new one up for like $1500 - Im sure you could sell it later for not much of a loss. Or if you had more money and could get one of the fuel injected 250's like the Hyosung or UM Xspeed, that might be the best of both worlds - a realtively light bike for everyday errands and enough power for some serious freeway travel. I've seen last year' model of these scoots advtised for as little as $2,999, which is a darn good deal.
Decisions, decisions .....
|
|
