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Post by kneuen on May 18, 2011 13:04:39 GMT -5
All,
I recently purchased a 2010 Ice Bear ZH50. Waiting on the title and all, but I do have a few concerns.
Where can I get a manual? I'm a professional mechanic and know better than to work on anything without a manual.
Where can I get a manual for the carb? The owner's manual says this is a 157QMB motor, but I can find nothing on the carb or the motor itself.
I do have an uneven idle. Is this most likely a vacuum issue?
I live at 5200 ft above sea level. What would the recommended jet and needle adjustments be? Where can I get those parts and where is a good source for aftermarket parts for this trike?
Thank you for any help you can offer.
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Post by edfr on May 18, 2011 14:30:33 GMT -5
Is ZH50 a 50cc TRIKE? Look on the engine case in front of the CVT the engine TYPE is scribed into the engine case. There are NO MANUALS for the Trikes, what they give you is a MANUAL for the TWO wheelers SINCE all they did was take a TWO wheeler and take the Back wheel off and made the Swing arm to bolt the Rear Axle to. So everything on it is just as if you bought a TWO WHEELER except for the Rear Axle and mount. Take a look under it you will see where the sidestand hooked up to the frame and everything. What do you mean by an UNEVEN idle, If the IDLE is bounceing around going up and down, it is running LEAN and or you have an AIR LEAK. Check if you have an Air Leak around the Carb, take a Spray Bottle and Water and Spray The Intake, where the Carbs Clamps are also the Vacumm hoses where they connect etc.. IF when you Spary the IDLE changes you found a LEAK. Here is a picture of a CV carb which is probably what is on there but IF its a 50cc Trike it is a little smaller BUT Sameo Sameo for adjusting. Lefty Left Side Of Carb:  Right Side Of Carb:  ADJUSTING YOUR FUEL RATIO SCREW: Warm Up the SCOOT for at least 5 minutes. YOU WANT THE HIGHEST IDLE OUT OF THE FUEL RATIO SCREW YOU CAN GET. ADJUST YOUR RUEL RATIO: 1.Turn the Fuel Ratio Screw Counter Clockwise 1/4 and wait 10-15 seconds to allow the engine to catch up with the new setting. a. If the IDLE GOES up repeat 1 until the IDLE does not go up or it does nothing. b. Then turn it 1/8 Clockwise that should be the highest IDLE you can get out of the Fuel Ratio Screw. **** IF on the First 1/4 Turn the IDLE DOES NOT go up or does nothing THEN Turn the Screw Back 1/4 and GO TO 2. 2. Turn the Fuel Ratio Screw Clockwise 1/4 and wait 10-15 seconds to allow the engine to catch up with the new setting. a. If the IDLE GOES up repeat 2 until the IDLE does not go up or it does nothing. b. Then turn it 1/8 Counter Clockwise that should be the highest IDLE you can get out of the Fuel Ratio Screw. *** IF 1 OR 2 DOES NOT CHANGE THE IDLE you have a Clogged Pilot Jet or its Passages and you will have to Clean the Jets and Passages out.*** If all is well then you can Lower Your IDLE if need be USING the IDLE SPEED SCREW. Idle should be around 1500-1800, FOR TWO WHEEL SCOOTS the REAR WHEEL should NOT be Spinning. For TRIKES as long as it is not moving forward. |
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Post by kneuen on May 19, 2011 16:48:11 GMT -5
Thanks for the info! It is indeed a 50cc, but the manual was wrong... it's a 139QMB, standard stuff. Plenty of aftermarket, which is great and I was able to find a shop manual online, even better.
Just out of curiosity, anyone work with Scrappy Dog Scooters for aftermarket parts? They've got a stage 3 upgrade kit for this motor for only 150 dollars. I'm wondering if this is one of those "you get what you pay for" moments or if it's for real.
Haven't adjusted the carb yet, but I definitely suspect that's the problem. Finally got my tachometer, so I'll do it soon.
Thanks again!
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Post by kneuen on May 23, 2011 13:43:24 GMT -5
Just an update.
Indeed, the carb was running lean. Adjusted out 3/4 turn and runs like a champ now. Thanks for the info!
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Post by kneuen on May 27, 2011 8:40:35 GMT -5
Here we go again...
Was riding the trike and realized that it was trying to creep on me when I was at a light. Got me to wondering about how I had set the idle and I realized I had my tachometer set for a 2 stage instead of a 4 stage. No biggie, I thought. Just reset everything to factory and tune the carb with the 4 stage settings. Didn't work.
Every 3-5 seconds now the engine stumbles. IE, idles about 3000 rpm, stumbles down to 2000 rpm then picks back up. I replaced all the vacuum lines, just in case, and doused the whole thing with water, looking for the leak. Just got a cleaner bike for my troubles. So... I'm thinking maybe a partially plugged pilot valve. Any ideas?
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Post by rapidjim on May 27, 2011 8:58:33 GMT -5
I would agree with you on the pilot/idle jet being partially plugged. I see that a lot, esp after setting all winter without being prepped. The cheap gas we have now adays doesn't help either. After cleaning the jet I would recommend that you put a couple caps of Sea Foam in your gas every time you fill up.
Jim/Owner
Rapid Repair
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Post by edfr on May 27, 2011 12:03:54 GMT -5
If the Idle bounces on you like it is doing it is running LEAN. Clean out the Carb especially the PILOT JET AND PASSAGE. People forget to blow out the Passage and just clean the Jet.
Take the Pilot jet out clean that then Spray into the HOLE without the Jet in it and Spray should come out by the tiny holes in front by the BUTTERFLY. Do the same thing to the Main jet.
Lefty
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Post by kneuen on May 30, 2011 13:27:05 GMT -5
Okay, update:
Cleaned carb, pulling out all jets and cleaning out all passages
Replaced all fuel/vacuum lines with high quality fuel line and clamps
Sprayed entire motor with water-no vacuum leaks
Pulled plug-black, running rich
Checked fuel vacuum petcock-good
Adjusted valves-needed, set at 0... now set at .06mm intake and .08mm exhaust (per manual)
Attempted a/f adjust as edfr advised, turning the a/f almost 4 turns at 1/8 each before engine died from too rich mix.
Have replaced engine and rear end oil
Recharged battery twice... all the idling keeps killing it
Spoke with a technician at Killer Motor Sports (where I purchased it.) He suspects that the electric choke is not working. Filed claim to get part. If I disconnect the choke, shouldn't the issue disappear? Unless it's an internal problem to the choke, I guess. FYI, I didn't take apart the needle diaphragm or the accelerator pump. I can't see these causing my problem.
Going to replace the spark plug today and test the pickup coil, CDI etc. today.
Any ideas?
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Post by Premier Scooters on May 30, 2011 14:09:36 GMT -5
If the choke/enrichmetnt valve is stuck in the choke position unplugging it will do nothing. the choke is in the on postion untill it gets power from the stator, then the plunger extends and blocks the choke passage. You can test it to see if it working by pulling it out and applying 12v to it. The plunger should extend about 1/4" or so in a few minutes.
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Post by edfr on May 30, 2011 14:18:45 GMT -5
If its acting up due to much fuel DISCONNECTING the Enricher will feed extra fuel ALL the time. It works the OPPOSITE of what you normally would think. BY DEFAULT the Enricher PLUNGER is RETRACTED which means it is allowing extra fuel to flow to the Intake. As the Engine is Running the Voltage Heats up the Element inside the Enricher and the Plunger and Needle start to EXTEND OUT to CLOSE OFF the Extra Fuel being Fed For Cold Starts. So as you can see if you unplug it, the Extra Fuel will be fed all the time because the Plunger will not be able to EXTEND without the Volatage. Now you can test it yourself VERY Easy. Take it off when cold OR even after it is nice and hot. Lefty If you take it OFF after it has been running for at Least 5 minutes THIS IS WHAT IT SHOULD LOOK LIKE: NOTICE HOW FAR THE PLUNGER EXTENDED OUT FROM THE HOLDER.  If it is like this WHEN HOT then it is NOT WORKING NOTICE THE PLUNGER IS NOT EXTENDED That means it is FEEDING FUEL ALL THE TIME:  Lefty |
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Post by 89newbie on May 30, 2011 22:48:02 GMT -5
Still having problems with mrs newbies trike. Been getting ready to move have so much to do but little 50 needs to run. Probably results of winter then spring when it ran fine then sat 6 weeks now it is so strange. The vacumline to the top of the tank was chafed from the small vac diagram. I am wondering if it was ever correct. Fitting on tank is what I would describe as close to 3/8 in, vac diaphragm fitting is like a 1/4. Need a diagram to see if it was ever right on the routing of the lines. More stuff on this i have never seen or read about. Could the enrichner be bad allready? Im really at a loss ready to burn it.
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Post by edfr on May 30, 2011 23:16:03 GMT -5
I do not understand, it was running lean you turned out the Fuel Ratio screw and was running like a CHAMP. THEN it was creeping at idle? Now all you should of had to do was TURN THE IDLE SPEED screw Counter Clockwise about 1/8 of a turn and the Idle would have come down? So why all of this: """" Cleaned carb, pulling out all jets and cleaning out all passages Replaced all fuel/vacuum lines with high quality fuel line and clamps Sprayed entire motor with water-no vacuum leaks Pulled plug-black, running rich Checked fuel vacuum petcock-good Adjusted valves-needed, set at 0... now set at .06mm intake and .08mm exhaust (per manual) Attempted a/f adjust as edfr advised, turning the a/f almost 4 turns at 1/8 each before engine died from too rich mix. Have replaced engine and rear end oil Recharged battery twice... all the idling keeps killing it""""  ? And if it DIES when you turned it to rich then you are NOT DOING IT CORRECT. You turn it 1/4 or 1/8 at a TIME and WAIT for the ENGINE to Catch up with the NEW SETTING. IF YOU DON'T you will OVER DO IT. Start over. Turn the Fuel Ratio Screw CLOCKWISE UNTIL it stops do not force just until it stops. THen Turn it our Counter Clockwise 2 1/2 Turns it should start at that setting. Then you can fine tune it IF NECESSARY. Messing with it thinking your going to get more power with more fuel is NOT going to happen( to get that some mods are required). Lefty |
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Post by kneuen on May 31, 2011 8:26:40 GMT -5
Found the problem! When I changed the spark plug, I decided to check the voltage signal to the enricher. Found only 1.2V. Made me decide to check the stator output. When I disconnected the stator, idle instantly evened out. Reconnected and idle became uneven again. Checked output from power to ground on stator and got 22VDC. Suspect that the voltage regulator/rectifier is FUBAR. Especially since when the battery started getting low again, the uneven idle returned. I'm working with Ice Bear on getting a new regulator/recitifier. Interestingly, the one that is mounted on my bike is a 5 pin one, that my research indicates is for the 125-150 bikes, rather than the 4 pin that my manual says comes with the 139QMB. I also think that this poor battery is suspect now since it's been drained so much. Hoping to force a battery out of Ice Bear because it has been abused due to manufacturer fault. Wish me luck! Keep in mind that when I set the idle originally and got a decent idle, 2 things were different. 1) The battery was completely new and fresh, so it could overcome the charging issue and 2) I had set the idle rate with the wrong setting... was using 1 pulse per revolution instead of 1 pulse per 2 revolutions. This meant that rather than idling at 2000 rpm, it was idling at 4000 rpm. Clutch was engaging, causing the creep. When I went back to correct this, the battery had drained down, causing the (then) current setting to be uneven as well. When I tried to correct to 1900 rpm (as per the manual), the battery was down, so it caused stalling. Electrical issues suck, don't they? And you are quite correct about fuel for power. I am already planning on upgrading the cylinder, exhaust, head and so forth. Scrappydog stage 3 upgrade is what I'm looking at, but I need a good baseline (and registration, title, inspection, etc. done) before I do those upgrades. Would suck to put all that stuff on and then find the same problem. Should hear back from Ice Bear soon. Just a relief to FIND the problem, if not fix it yet.  |
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