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Post by tvnacman on Nov 12, 2010 19:25:26 GMT -5
ok guys I'm just about at my wits end
so I recived my third 4 pin regulator and it still isn't correct (just for a spare) the first two overcharged and the third my head lights are dim (the voltage does creep to 13vdc)
if one of my fellow dawgs has a 4 pin regulator that you know works , if you have a meter for resistance and diode check and are willing to take about 25 measurements this would be of great help.
I have made a chart of what is working in my scooter , I need to find the correct one.
Thanks guys
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Post by tvnacman on Nov 13, 2010 8:25:02 GMT -5
no takers
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Post by tomcas on Nov 13, 2010 9:46:55 GMT -5
How do you know they were overcharging? Did you check to make sure there was a good ground connection? Without a good ground the regulator can't dump the excess current. At what RPM are you reading the voltage?
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Post by tvnacman on Nov 13, 2010 13:53:50 GMT -5
Tomcas
The bike has a working regulator in it at the moment , I have been tring to secure a spare, and this is what is happening.
With the regulator in the bike that is working at idle it is putting 13.5 , reved up for 3 or 4 min it will not go over 14.6 or 14.7vdc
with the regulators that I recived I get about the same 13 at idle , when I rev it up in under a min it its over 15vdc and I held it when it broke 16vdc I turned the bike off, this has happened with TWO regulators. the third my a/c head lights were dim and it was a real struggle for it to get to 13vdc
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Post by tomcas on Nov 13, 2010 19:15:30 GMT -5
The voltages you measured for each of the regulators are within acceptable limits. What is the voltage at the headlight? It sounds like you may have a bad connection.
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Post by tvnacman on Nov 13, 2010 19:20:09 GMT -5
when I put the original regulator back in the lights are fine
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Post by D-cat on Nov 13, 2010 23:53:21 GMT -5
This could be an issue of stator design (not) matching the regulator/rectifier. One of the most idiotic things that has ever happened with the scooter electrical design is that the 50cc setup and the 150(ish)cc setup are different, yet the regulators look identical. What you need to determine is if your stator is grounded to the engine block or not. If it is, you require a 50cc (half-wave) rectifier, if it is not, then you use a 150cc (full wave) rectifier. To make things even more complicated, there's no standard for the pinout on the regulator either. Half-wave rectifier, present in virtually all Chinese 50cc scooters, and some up to 150cc:  Full wave rectifier, found primarily in 150cc scooters:  |
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Post by swakk on Nov 14, 2010 4:56:20 GMT -5
the four pin regulator have TWO output
one for the dc (batterie, blinkers, all the parts on dc) 13Vdc is ok, even some more
the other, ONLY with the yellow wire, is AC, and the wiring must be complet
the yellow wire from the stator make a straight way to the lights (througt the light switch) AND make a derivation to the regulator
all MUST be connected, otherwise it doesn t work
to check it, put the light on, because you need a load on
and check in ac
if it s not ok, check the wire to the stator, to the regulator and to the light
when you switch OFF the lights, the current is send TO a resistor
if it s deconnected or fried, the regulator will soon die, because it will dissipate all the unused energy, instead of the resistor
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Post by D-cat on Nov 14, 2010 9:35:04 GMT -5
Actually, Swakk, you just stumbled on another way to make at least an estimation on what the harness was designed for. Based on various wiring diagrams I've seen, there is your description (which is the half wave), but on a harness expecting a full wave rectifier, there will either be two yellows or one yellow and one white as before, but the white will be the lighting tap.
The only way to tell for sure which rectifier to use (regardless of harness) is to unplug the stator and measure ohms against the engine block (engine NOT running) of the yellow and white wires through the stator. If there is any value at all (especially < 5Ω), the stator is grounded to the block and you must use the 50cc rectifier.
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Post by tvnacman on Nov 14, 2010 15:35:47 GMT -5
well what i can say is, it is a 6 coil stator , the lights are ac.
on the good working regulator the pin the green ground wire goes to , is connected electrically to the body of the regulator 0 ohms .
thank you guys for the help
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Post by tvnacman on Nov 14, 2010 15:44:30 GMT -5
this bike has no resistor
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Post by D-cat on Nov 15, 2010 12:27:19 GMT -5
The resistor may be omitted in bikes which you cannot turn off the headlights, which I believe by federal law is every motor driven cycle that's not classified as a moped. The headlight bulbs act as the resistor.
I'm looking for resistance through the stator, not the regulator. Once we determine the type of stator, we can worry about the regulator after. As a 6 coil though, I'm fairly certain it's going to be a grounded type. That kind of sucks because it is a low power limitation, only about 1/3 the stator's wattage potential can be converted to DC, and every time there's a DC draw your AC lighting is going to be cut up to 1/2. You can't do full wave rectification on a grounded stator; the attempt would cause a half wave dead short, burning out both the stator and the rectifier.
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Post by swakk on Nov 15, 2010 16:49:49 GMT -5
yes
you have to rewire to do this...
not interesting, parts are not expensives
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Post by tvnacman on Nov 15, 2010 18:20:32 GMT -5
i belive the stator grounds where it mounts
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Post by tvnacman on Nov 15, 2010 18:21:23 GMT -5
how do i check what your asking
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Post by swakk on Nov 16, 2010 2:45:31 GMT -5
buy a multimeter
but, usually 4 pins regulator are half wave, so, no problem
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Post by swakk on Nov 16, 2010 15:44:55 GMT -5
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Post by tvnacman on Nov 16, 2010 17:22:39 GMT -5
Swakk
this is more than I would think I would find in here , however I still need to find the correct regulator. I know it is out there , at this point it seems that I would just about have to make the one I need myself. The information that you have suppled would enable me to do so .
Thank You
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Post by tvnacman on Nov 16, 2010 17:33:38 GMT -5
D-Cat
i buzzed out the stator, the metal in center core that mounts to the block is grounded , it is just a few ohms to ground
John
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Post by swakk on Nov 17, 2010 9:31:19 GMT -5
a few ohm in electricity mean a LOT
but i guess you need a standard regulator
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