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Post by marinervella on Sept 19, 2010 20:57:01 GMT -5
Hi all,
I'm working on a 2009 Lifan LF150T-6. After blowing a couple of headlamp bulbs (which run on DC), it now isn't getting adequate charging voltage, so after starting it a couple of times, and driving around for a while, a fully-charged battery will no longer crank the starter. I replaced the regulator/rectifier, but still don't get the needed voltage increase measured at the battery terminals (the voltage is essentially whatever the battery voltage was before starting the engine). I then replaced the stator, also with no effect. I then swapped out the battery for a known good one -- no change. I checked continuity through all wires and connectors, cleaned and checked ground connections, etc. My current working hypothesis is that the replacement R/R I bought, while it had the identical plug configuration (4 wires in a 6-wire connector, plus a separate single-connector plug for the auto-enricher) may have been wired differently, and that I may have fried it when I started the engine. Can anyone think of anything else I should be looking for? I'm trying to find a genuine Lifan R/R, but also considering jury-rigging a more standard 4-connector GY6 R/R in place of the 5-wire one, just to see if I can get charging voltage to the battery. Thanks for your help!
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Post by sc150rider on Sept 20, 2010 10:25:12 GMT -5
Have you checked for AC voltage at the plug for the rectifier?
That would at least tell you that you have a good stator.
I would also check for voltage coming out of the regulator, of course you need it plugged in for that.
If you still have the original R/R check for any numbers on it, and check the new one for the same number. I think they should have the same number somewhere on them (mine did anyways).
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Post by sprocket on Sept 20, 2010 11:51:49 GMT -5
I have the 2010 version of that scooter and I have been looking for an R/R since day one...mine works, but won't charge the battery. I solved the problem by switching all the bulbs to LEDs . I also rewired the headlights so I can turn off the headlights during the daytime. The R/R on mine is 5 wires and two with bullet connectors, for a total of 7. The brand is Linah.
As sc150rider said... check between the white wire and ground and the yellow wire and ground. You should get above 60 volts AC...
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Post by marinervella on Sept 20, 2010 22:05:18 GMT -5
Thanks to you big dawgs for your replies! Yes, I've checked the stator output -- getting from 25VAC at idle up to 40-50VAC when I rev it up -- don't think I've ever seen 60 volts on any of my scooters, maybe I'm just too chicken to rev it up high enough. Or maybe you are measuring output of an 11-coil stator? But I have replaced the (8-coil) stator already, and I'm getting similar behavior on both the old and new stators (and the stator on my Tank Racer). I have checked DC output voltage on both the old and new R/Rs, and even unplugged the red battery wire to check it disconnected from the battery (also checked the red/white wire going to the auto-enricher) -- just not getting the 13.5-14.5 volts that I'm looking for at the battery. Voltage is definitely higher with the headlights disconnected, but not high enough. I've been working with Ron at lifanpartshq.com -- he may be able to supply an OEM R/R -- I highly recommend checking with Ron if you need OEM Lifan parts -- he's trying his best to help. He's got some good parts diagrams on the site as well.
I was hoping you guys would tell me "you're forgetting to check the secret diode under the turn signal flasher" or something like that. But no such luck -- if you have any more suggestions, I'd be grateful to hear them. Thanks again...
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Post by sprocket on Sept 21, 2010 11:46:08 GMT -5
I had an idea... check the ground on the R/R.
The stator voltage is fine, so it must be either the R/R or a bad ground...
Things seem to be working, just not well enough...
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Post by marinervella on Sept 21, 2010 21:47:18 GMT -5
Hi Sprocket -- I checked the ground last night, coincidentally. Essentially zero ohms resistance between the green wire that plugs into the R/R and a randomly-selected ground point. Earlier, I did unbolt all the wires from the main chassis ground point (just in front of the valve cover) and cleaned and sanded everything to ensure a good ground for all those wires.
As far as I can tell, the case of this 5-wire R/R is not used as the ground, although just to be sure, I did sand around the attachment point and put on a lock-washer that bit into the metal pretty well when I mounted it. My next adventure will be to jury-rig a "standard" 4-pin GY6 R/R, like the one on my Tank, just to see if I get any better output. I won't be able to get to it til next week, so it will be a while before I report back.
So, what do those seven wires on your 2010 model hook up to? Are there three white or yellow wires coming out of the stator? That would suggest that they tried to solve the charging problem by going to an 11-coil stator. Have you pulled the flywheel to look at your stator? I was thinking one (expensive) solution might be to upgrade to an 11-coil stator, rotor, and R/R, but if you have the same problem as me, maybe not.
Does anyone know of a ballast resistor or anything like that in the circuit for this scooter?
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Post by sprocket on Sept 22, 2010 11:02:31 GMT -5
>>the case of this 5-wire R/R is not used as the ground
Right the green wire is the ground...
Some scooter have ballast resistors, usually 6 coil stators and 4 wire rectifiers...
On mine I have dedicated circuit for the headlights and the enricher. I have only one white and one yellow, going in and then a pink, red and red and white stripped coming out...
Be aware than the wiring of the 'standard' 4 pin rectifier in the manuals is WRONG!
Check this forum cause there are a couple of threads explaining the problem. As I recall
the red is top left and the green is bottom right the white and yellow go to the other two connections...
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Post by marinervella on Sept 22, 2010 16:29:47 GMT -5
Sprocket, thanks for the warning about the ubiquitous incorrect wiring diagram -- I think I recall hearing about that on one of the forums (but probably would have forgotten at the critical time). I was planning to open up my Tank and use that known good R/R and use its wiring as the model. I might end up buying TWO regulators, but I'd like to start with one that I know is working right and that I understand which wire does what...
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Post by sprocket on Sept 22, 2010 18:37:34 GMT -5
>>I might end up buying TWO regulators
Actually I plan to do that in the spring...I am going to run one R/R for the engine and then another for the lights and charge to the battery...
I don't think Lifan has done the math properly and they are cutting things too close on the R/R output.
But for now the change over to LEDs gives me lots of extra voltage... I get 14.8 volts on the charge line
with the headlights off and 13.8 with them on...
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Post by tvnacman on Sept 26, 2010 18:19:31 GMT -5
hey guys read this
I have 6 coil stator and 4 pin regulator.
I had a no charge problem, i replaced the stator because i could not find ac voltage. changingb the stator did not solve the problem. so i moved on to the regulator , i found about 30vac reved up and 16vdc charging . the regulator that was in the scooter from the start was an "FLP" what i found strange was i went from not charging to overcharging. I replaced the regulator with one that said FLP and a date PROBLEM SOLVED
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Post by sprocket on Sept 26, 2010 18:22:45 GMT -5
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Post by tvnacman on Sept 26, 2010 18:30:04 GMT -5
sprocket it worked for me
read the resistance between the to rite side pins i think it is green to yellow ont the flp it was 330 ohms on the good one
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Post by tvnacman on Sept 26, 2010 18:39:21 GMT -5
on the "ZTXF" regulator the resistance .6 meg
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Post by marinervella on Oct 3, 2010 11:27:40 GMT -5
Update on my LF150T-6 charging problems: I patched in the 4-wire R/R from my Tank Racer, and it may have improved the output voltage slightly, but not enough to cure the problem. I had another 4-wire R/R for a 50cc GY6 lying around, and tried that too -- no luck. I am getting up to 60VAC from my stator, but it just isn't getting turned into 13+ VDC at the battery for some reason. I got access to the American Lifan forums and asked for help there, but unfortunately, the guy who was trying to be their US parts distributor has finally given up in frustration because he couldn't get anyone from Lifan to work with him. At this point, I would have to advise anyone thinking of buying a Lifan scooter to think again...
P.S -- Dumb mistake of the day: After taking the R/R out of my Tank, I decided to check its stator output. Promptly blew both headlights because they were running on unregulated AC voltage. :-) (...and the running lights, tail light, and license plate light...)
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Post by marinervella on Nov 20, 2010 19:35:55 GMT -5
Update (hopefully the FINAL update) on this thread: After posting the same problem on the American Lifan forum, I got replies from Bruce at Endless Journey Cycles, and "dmoore", who works for American Lifan. They both informed me that the standard 35 watt scooter headlight bulbs are not correct, even though apparently they were being installed at the factory, and specified in Lifan parts lists. Instead, they told me to install 18 watt halogen bulbs, which I got from partsforscooters.com. These 18W bulbs have the same base and configuration as the 35w bulbs. Sure enough, when we put in the 18W bulbs, charging voltage went up to 13.6 volts at the battery, and after a test ride, the battery voltage had increased, rather than decreased. So Sprocket, if you haven't already replace the fat 35W headlight bulbs with LEDs, try the 18W halogens -- they seem to be about as bright as the 35W bulbs, and I think they have solved my charging problem.
The other good news is that American Lifan apparently isn't closing up shop like CPI, Tank, and others -- dmoore assures us that they are rebuilding their parts inventory and planning to stick around to support Lifan owners.
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Post by tvnacman on Nov 20, 2010 21:49:21 GMT -5
Marin
what regulator was the one that came with the scooter from the factory (how many pin)
John
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Post by marinervella on Nov 21, 2010 16:33:32 GMT -5
John, the original R/R had 5 wires.
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