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Post by goodharbor on Oct 21, 2009 9:58:37 GMT -5
I suspected my rectifier was fried after my stator shorted due to one of the bolts backing out, causing the stator to float a bit. After the stator was replaced, the spark was fine, but the headlights / rear running light / panel lights were dead (actually, they would be extremely dim for a minute or so, and then be out. I suspected the the rectifier was fried when the stator was shorted). So, I wanted to test the 4-pin rectifier. Referring the the ubiquitous 200 page "Service and Repair Manual" that's floating around in PDF format, I went to page 156 (Chapter 14: The Battery and Charging System) and found this diagram: But, when I got to my rectifier, the wiring was : Green and White are the same, but the diagram reversed Red and Yellow. The test matrix is accurate for color (as on my plug, not the diagram) , and indeed my rectifier was open on (+)Red / (-)White (it should have read 3K to 50K ohms as indicated in the test matrix. Also, Yellow / Green read over the 100K limit). So, I'm buying a new rectifier ... but I wanted to advise others on the error in the "Service and Repair Manual".
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Post by kiwibruce on Jan 15, 2010 10:51:17 GMT -5
The manual is not incorrect. Believe it or not, there is a regulator that looks exactly like the one in your drawing that does have the yellow wire on the left. Most dirt bikes and a lot of scooters use the common one with the battery wire (red) to the left but I have found that some scooters have the top two wires reversed. CPI 2 stroke 50 is one example. The problem I have is that I can't find a way to differentiate between those two regulators, they look identical. I have seen reference to various 'types' of regulators, type N, type L, type A. Can anyone tell me what this means? The parts sites often mention the type on their regulators but with no explanation. Cheers
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Post by goodharbor on Jan 15, 2010 12:26:37 GMT -5
Funny ! So much for "standards" ...
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Post by abscooters on Jan 22, 2010 15:22:08 GMT -5
From my experience, the manual is wrong. In the last 4 years I have not seen one rectifier that is wired the way the manual shows. I have serviced alot of scooters and a handful of dirtbikes, motorcycles, and atvs with the 4 pin reg, and all have been wired the same. I have seen the wires in different slots, but the most important thing is that green and red (christmas colors) are diagonal from each other and yellow and white are diagonal from each other. The first time I had a bike in here with voltage problems I ran to that manual, thinking I had found the problem, I in fact only made things worse and turned what should have been a one hour repair into a 2 day headache.
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Post by grandamatic on May 20, 2010 11:53:52 GMT -5
Ok i have question, i ordered new rectifier and still lights dont work but makes my scooter run terrible!! Why would the rectifier have anything to do with how my scooter runs? Thanks
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Post by felliott on May 20, 2010 18:07:08 GMT -5
If your scooter is not charging a problem could be the choke is not working correctly. Most need a charging voltage to do it's job
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Post by dbecks44 on Sept 30, 2010 17:08:35 GMT -5
Hi folks! I'm brand new to this site, but I think I may have a problem with my rectifier / regulator. Also, I think I may need one of the ones with the "reversed" pinout, because I bought a new part and according to my test with a multimeter the top two pins seem to be reversed on the new one vs my current one. In addition, my wire colors are completely different. Check it out: Here's the Rectifier: Scoot is a 2005 Vento Zip R3i which stalled on me, and now won't start. I suspect the auto choke is not working, but it checks out ok for resistance. No voltage to it, however. The rectifier is as far as I have been able to trace it with no voltage. Any ideas?
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Post by sprocket on Sept 30, 2010 17:17:02 GMT -5
You need to work with a multimeter from the plug side and see what you have. The green is usually ground and the red is usually the out wire for the battery charge.
The white wire comes from the stator at about 45-55volts AC and I have no idea what the black wire does. You will have to see if it has voltage and where it goes...
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Post by sprocket on Sept 30, 2010 17:21:32 GMT -5
As a side note.. the enricher doesn't care if it runs on AC or DC as long as it is 12-14Volts.
So you could hook it up anywhere that you have a connection that is turned on and off by the key switch...it does its thing then shuts off automatically...
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Post by dbecks44 on Sept 30, 2010 17:51:25 GMT -5
Thanks, I'll do a little digging. In the meantime, I found this wiring diagram for my scooter: media.photobucket.com/image/Vento%20wire%20diagram/scooterrebels/ZIPELECTRICDIAGRAM.jpgLooks like the black wire is ground, the white is from the Magneto (aka Stator, right?) . . . Green with Red stripe goes to the "light controlled switch." What's that? I don't even know if this diagram is exact for my scoot, I just got all excited when the wire colors matched mine into the rectifier. I hadn't seen that anywhere else yet!
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Post by sprocket on Sept 30, 2010 18:47:31 GMT -5
Yup I agree black is ground.. the green/red goes to the light control switch.. I think they mean the ignition switch, which makes sense...
The white is the AC voltage coming in.. that is right, from the stator
and the red/white seems to go to the brake interlock for starting and probably has DC voltage on it...
Not sure I can help much, but I think you are getting there... so the enricher at some point should connect to that red/white wire if it has DC voltage on it...
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Post by dbecks44 on Oct 6, 2010 14:45:52 GMT -5
Okay, I still haven't really gotten anywhere . . . the enricher / auto choke is labeled in the wiring diagram (linked above) as "THERMO ELEMENT" and the two wires to it are the black (ground) and the green with red stripe. I can't get voltage to the green/red wire, and the only place I haven't traced it to yet is the stator/magneto. If the wire is broken somewhere near there and not connecting the stator to the rectifier to the enricher, would that potentially cause what I'm seeing? I thought there was only voltage from the stator when the engine ran, but perhaps this comes from the battery through the stator? I don't know. Man, if I only had a little more documentation on this scoot, I feel like I'd be on easy street!
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Post by tomcas on Oct 6, 2010 15:18:36 GMT -5
If the wire is broken somewhere near there and not connecting the stator to the rectifier to the enricher, would that potentially cause what I'm seeing? I thought there was only voltage from the stator when the engine ran, but perhaps this comes from the battery through the stator? Yep, if the wire is broken obviously you won't complete the circuit. Likewise, without the stator being grounded you won't complete the circuit. The AC supply wire from the stator (typically yellow at the harness) will only have voltage when the bike is running. Don't forget, some bikes have a power resistor (approx 10 ohms) on the ground leg of the choke and these have been known to burn out so you should check for continuity to ground.
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Post by dbecks44 on Oct 6, 2010 19:38:39 GMT -5
I have checked the resistance across the choke, and it came in at ~35 Ohms. A little higher than I thought it might be, but should still be okay, right? (I had checked this a while ago - one of the first things I did.)
Thanks again for the help . . . I'll keep digging into the stator next.
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Post by tvnacman on Oct 6, 2010 20:39:33 GMT -5
dbecks look on the regulator are there any markings letters or numbers
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Post by dbecks44 on Oct 7, 2010 15:23:13 GMT -5
The regulator / rectifier is now re-attached to the scoot with the id markings hidden . . . I can re-remove it and check if you think it might help you help me (wha?), but I do remember it had a QJ on it, and that some of the numbers were probably no longer legible. Let me know, I'll take it off and post a photo if it will help . . . otherwise I'll leave it on as it's a bit of an uncomfortable reach. Who made these scooters so small anyway?! Thanks, as always, for the pointers.
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Post by als01seville on Oct 7, 2010 17:36:54 GMT -5
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llhite
New Puppy Dawg
Posts: 1
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Post by llhite on Apr 3, 2011 16:04:55 GMT -5
no power to auto enhanser
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Post by sprocket on Apr 3, 2011 16:13:41 GMT -5
The engine is running right? Some auto chokes are powered off DC others are AC, but the engine must be running for them to show power...
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Post by tvnacman on Apr 3, 2011 18:45:15 GMT -5
I gave up on this 4pin 6coil cluster f@#k 11coil 7pin I ordered a dozen 4 pin regulators all had a different problem , one overcharged , one didn't charge , one charged with dim lights , one didn't charge but lights worked . spend the fifty or hundred and two hours .
John
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Post by sprocket on Apr 3, 2011 19:26:34 GMT -5
You ordered an 11 coil stator my NCY friend? Did you get an 11 pole flywheel too?
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Post by tvnacman on Apr 3, 2011 20:08:53 GMT -5
yes I did and yes I did and yes I did and yes i did (NYC) stator flywheel regulator , and installed , the head lights are now dc I switched to leds (turn signals brake lights 2 1157's gone) 13.5 at ldle with all the lights on and a signal light flashing.
I have JR to thank for the info
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Post by tvnacman on Apr 3, 2011 20:20:51 GMT -5
Sprocket , Keep in mind I use my scooter as a work van , stop do or look at a job start it with electric starter Manhattan is bumper to bumper traffic with traffic lights on every corner (it is always red as you get to it) (idleing) I may go 2 miles and be at a light every 2 tenths of a mile . keep in mind I maybe hitting the starter twenty times a day . How many times can that tiny battery start the scooter without a crapping out . After lunch time sometimes I have to kick it the rest of the day .
I wanted to use the Gerbings heated stuff . I think I can on the hwy .
John
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Post by sprocket on Apr 4, 2011 14:44:04 GMT -5
Have an idea... try a solar panel and strap it on and then park in the sun...I used one last summer and I was amazed at how it kept the battery topped up! I just ran a plug to the battery and I can plug it in if I'm parked for an hour or so...I actually just left it on most of the time.
You can get them now so the fold into a fairly small size and they only cost about $25. They have diodes in them so they won't drain the battery.
Might also think about a larger batter under the seat. I had a 25AH lawnmower battery and it worked really well. I think I paid $30 for it at Walmart or somewhere...
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Post by tvnacman on Apr 4, 2011 19:39:47 GMT -5
Sprocket , I bought one from harbor freight . The main problem is someone stealing it knocking it over room to store it .
I think I'm going to rewire my head lights so I can shut them off . I need to change the dash lights to led . on one of my scooters there is room for a larger battery , that idea I like a lot .
Thinking about the solar panel I could mount it on the storage trunk .
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Post by sprocket on Apr 4, 2011 19:56:16 GMT -5
Good thoughts. I just lay the panel I have on the seat and run a bungie around it to hold it. I doubt people would mess with it but then I don't live were you do...;-)
Yes, I have done that too.. the headlight thing. I ran a switch to the main wire going to the low beams. They are off. But if I need lights I just hit the high beam switch and on they come... I do this at intersections for visibility... works great.
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spoils
New Puppy Dawg
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Post by spoils on Jul 16, 2011 7:41:23 GMT -5
I bought a new motor for a vento phantom 4 {2004} Doesn't charge correctly. No running lights or tail lights. Signals and break light work. Its a 150cc. Can anyone help me figure out whats the problem? Thanks!
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Post by sprocket on Jul 16, 2011 11:58:19 GMT -5
Probably the rectifier/regulator is not compatible with the new engine...
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spoils
New Puppy Dawg
Posts: 2
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Post by spoils on Jul 16, 2011 15:47:48 GMT -5
Thanks we were thinking that also....
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Post by sprocket on Jul 16, 2011 16:42:54 GMT -5
Do you know how many poles are on the new stator? Usually new engines are using 8 poles and the 2004 scooter used 6 pole stators...
You need to find the number of poles and probably order a rectifier/regulator that will work with an 8 pole...
Then it is a matter of rewiring it...
The other option, if you have an 8 pole in the new engine, order a 6 pole stator to replace it and it should be a fairly straight hook-up...
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