|
Post by chyder on Jul 30, 2010 0:28:56 GMT -5
Someone had posted recently suggesting that dealers should avoid doing any business whatsoever with Roketa for the sake of themselves and their customers. I was going to chime in to offer agreement, but it looks like the server crash ate the post. So here we are.
I consider this an important topic, because there is a somewhat hidden hierarchy in the Chinese scooter biz that casual buyers aren't going to be aware of. At the top of the chain is the actual manufacturer. These folks are the ones with their names on the title. After that, you have the "branders" / big importers, who will take these machines and slap their name and model number on them (Roketa seems to be one of these). There may even be another party in the chain before filtering down to the dealer... at least there was in my case.
I bought a $4150 3 wheel reverse trike scooter, AKA Spyder, AKA MC-95-250, AKA 250MB-2, AKA Can-Am Spyder Chinese knockoff from ThriftyScooters.com, run by JR Wolters. To make a long story short, it was in nightmare condition. Multiple paint runs, rust pits and chromed over grind marks on the muffler (which is now very loud after only 800miles), defective enricher, a non-sealing gas cap which has allowed gas to eat the paint surrounding it, many items only half assembled, a low quality seat with the vinyl applied crooked, a gas tank float that came off in the first tank of gas, and worst of all, the head on the motor was not tightened down which caused it to pop exhaust past the head gasket and dumped coolant into my oil.
JR Wolters pshawed the list of defects, stating that he had sold 120 units and never had a single complaint, as though that somehow negated the multitude of problems with my machine, while having only 3 positive reviews of that unit on his site. After much back and forth and little progress, I found myself at the mercy of Infinity Accessories (http://www.infinityaccessories.net/) who ThriftyScooters apparently buys their scooters from, and who apparently purchases from Roketa. After calling them multiple times, they started using the caller ID to stop answering my calls. I spoke to someone at Roketa (I believe) who offered to send me new panels that were a different color, which I would have needed to paint anyway, so no better than the drippy ones I have. I told them I wanted a seat cover so I could fix the seat and a muffler to replace the defective one on the machine. It never happened.
In total, I received as part of the supposed "warranty" an option to remove the entire engine from the machine and return it to them, a new head gasket, a tie-rod end boot, an enricher unit, and a fuel tank sender unit.
I spent many hours working on this "new" machine, not just a PDI, but actually building / repairing it so I could use it. I tightened the head myself at the advice of a local cycle mechanic and it's holding so far. I'm still driving a loud, cosmetically different than advertised, poorly built $4150 machine that was supposed to be new.
So this is the problem that is going to affect anyone purchasing from a dealer like JR Wolters and ThriftyScooters.com. They are just drop shippers who never see the product before it goes to the customer. Companies like Infinity Accessories don't care if junk ends up in the customers hands because they can just defer to the dealer, who defers back to them. Roketa doesn't care because they are sheltered from the dealer and the end customer by Infinity Accessories, and the manufacturer ( I want to say Kandi because thats what the plate on my machine says, but my title says Meng) is even further removed from the mess.
In the end, it's all about money. If the manufacturer knows they have a "dud", it will make it's way all of the way to the customer because wherever it stops, that's where the money is lost. So if the "brander", Roketa in this instance, doesn't stand behind the product with their name on it, everyone below them loses, with the end customer being the one who loses the most.
So to bring this back to where it started, why any dealer would want to do business with a company who leaves their customers out to dry the way Roketa did me is incomprehensible. I had my eye on the new, even more costly KD-250-MD side by side, but it looks like the supply chain for that unit is exactly the same as my Spyder clone, so that would be utter insanity. What drop shipping internet dealer is going to eat the cost of the manufacturers issues that start popping up on one of those? And if a company does this to someone on a $4150 machine, how much do you think they will care when you buy one that costs a third of that or less?
But in fairness, after many months and excuses, and me informing JR Wolters that I intended to take my experience with Thrifty Scooters, Infinity Accessories and Roketa public to save others the terrible experience I continue to endure at their collective hands, he claimed he had secured the muffler and the seat I told him would make the other issues bearable. He informed me that he secured these items at his own cost and expected me to write a positive review of the machine and ThriftyScooters in exchange for them, and that I needed to send in my current seat and muffler before he would ship them out. I informed him that I ride the machine nearly every day, and asked him to please send the parts to me first so I could replace them and not be without a functional machine for the 2 week turnaround, assuming he even had the parts he claimed to have had. He refused, of course, and told me I can send the parts to him in several months when I am not riding. I told him to stuff it.
So there you have it. Good dealers are important, but good distributors / manufacturers are much, much more important. I don't know where in the Chinese scooter chain IceBear is, but I am curious how / if my situation would have been different were they in it somewhere. I think we need to start looking at the entire lineage to protect ourselves, and not just the person with the website we click the "buy" button on.
|
|
|
Post by Bluefront on Jul 30, 2010 4:09:51 GMT -5
Terrible experience, all-too-frequently duplicated in posts on this forum. It's not confined to a single brand/distributor however. Any Chinese scooter bought online might come with the same sort of issues. It's a crap-shoot for the most part. And add to that a bad economy with brands/places disappearing all the time. The alternative is to buy from a local B&M place at a much higher price.....but at least if you have problems the store may have an incentive to help you out. They/you still may have problems getting replacement parts or any sort of warranty repairs. If you have any sort of mechanical ability, and knowledge about cycles/scooters in general, buying a used scoot off Craigs List might be a better alternative. At least you could see the scoot before you bought it, check it over for obvious issues, ride it around, etc. If you're unlucky and there's a hidden problem, the money you saved buying used, could go to fix the thing. Tough call for everybody considering a purchase of a Chinese scoot. A Japanese brand scoot might be a safer bet for some people......but at 4X the price.
|
|
|
Post by kz1000st on Jul 30, 2010 7:32:15 GMT -5
It's too bad you didn't come here first. Jim at Rapid Repair sells Trikes and has a great relationship with Roketa. He might have been able to do something with you.
We also know who the good online sellers are. We could have steered you to one of them.
|
|
|
Post by chyder on Jul 30, 2010 10:17:38 GMT -5
No offense intended to the folks who replied, but if you are looking for a specific machine, craigslist isn't going to help much. Not too many reverse trikes on there. And the point of my post really is that no dealer (I have been lurking here for quite a while before I purchased) is going to absorb the issues of a problem machine when those issues start to cost them 4x their profit margin. That doesn't excuse bad behavior on the part of the dealer, such as what I experienced, but even good dealers with the best intentions in the world can't stand behind an expensive machine when the bigger importers and manufacturers won't.
What it seems to boil down to is how much "pull" any particular link in the supply chain has at their disposal. Small dealers have virtually none, if they want to continue to do what they do. Mid-level distributors have some, especially if they serve a large network of small dealers. Large importers, like Roketa, have a fair amount, as much money and numbers flow through them. But they have to care enough about the products they are moving, and be organized enough to do something about the problems that crop up. In my case, it seems neither of those two very important items applied to their business. Again, it's all about how much pressure they are able and willing to apply upstream on behalf of the customer.
Again, that's why it's important to know not just the dealer, but who they buy from. Unless the dealer and distributor are very large, warehouse their own machines and inspect them prior to shipping (as some do), or the manufacturer is one who is quality oriented, you haven't a clue as to what will end up on your doorstep, or how your issues will ultimately be handled.
|
|
|
Post by Bluefront on Jul 30, 2010 10:42:19 GMT -5
There is nothing the little guy down at the end can do. Even if he researches the whole thing, the brand might just disappear one night like Tank, or lately Sym, or a multitude of little brands.
The idea is to be flexible, but if you want some specific model, it'll probably show up used somewhere, with low miles on it, for at least 1/3 off the cost of a new one online......might take some time though. There's a IceBear dealer a few miles from my house....haven't seen a used one on Craig's List this summer, but there have been other three-wheelers. I'll bet a used IceBear shows up before the end of the Fall.
If you save enough money when you buy the thing, you can put up with some issues. In the case of Chinese three-wheelers though.....don't know.
|
|
|
Post by jdikov on Aug 10, 2010 12:18:04 GMT -5
You can also look at buying from a company that directly imports scooters and has a good supply of parts for those scooters. One that has been around for a number of years and is a member of forums like this one and has a good reputation. We support all the bikes we import fully for both our dealers and our retail customers. Since we work directly with the manufacturer we do have some control over the quality and which parts go on our scooters.
|
|
|
Post by als01seville on Aug 10, 2010 14:01:16 GMT -5
Roketa, buys the Trikes and Spyders from Ice Bear and maybe other scoots I do not know about those. Ice Bear also sells to direct dealers and lately a lot of dealers have joined the fray. Ice Bear has most of the parts in stock but they have to try and cover all the dealers they sell to. Which brings us to their current problem and that is they do not have enough people to cover the work load either taking part orders and or people working in the warehouse to ship out the parts. They have ONE parts guy taking orders and maybe he also ships them out I don't know but it is a maddening problem trying to order a part. Now Roketa has a major problem from what I have been reading and that is that a lot of times they send you a part and it is NOT KNEW it probably came off a wrecked scoot that was returned or something. my .02 Alleyoop
|
|
|
Post by lhumpolick on Aug 10, 2010 22:31:51 GMT -5
I have the same type of issues with k and k motors in Newbury Ohio i paid cash for a 2008 Wildfire 150d scooter from them I did the PDI myself too many issues to fit here the worest was when the rear brake locked up on me and I was raped up like a Mummy for over a month I notified john at wildfire the next day thay wanted to charge me to take it to Wildfire motors Where he purched it from in stubenville Ohio Plus john wanted to charge me to fix the bad parts after pulling the rear brakles apart i found a burr on the rear brake pin still no warrenty John at wildfire said i should have caught it on a pdi(who Takes Apart The Rear Brake Pin On A PDI?)the atorney genery general was no help in 2008 i wanted to buy local and got burned the scooter is burrerd in my garage My best advice on buying a scooter is byuy one used with under 1000 miles on it so you will know if it has a histery of issues i have purchase 2 more Of them with great success i notece at that thime with gas prices at a all time high a lot of dealer want a bes got in the business a year later thay were going out of business #2 lession never thrust K And K Motors In Newbury Ohio And Wildfire motors in Ohio
|
|
|
Post by chyder on Aug 18, 2010 23:10:11 GMT -5
Roketa, buys the Trikes and Spyders from Ice Bear and maybe other scoots I do not know about those. If I might ask, what is your source for the info you based this conclusion upon? Why would Roketa buy from IceBear? It's my impression that both of these companies are importers, not one tiered above or below the other. I was pretty familiar with the chain, and IceBear never came into the picture.
|
|
|
Post by chyder on Aug 18, 2010 23:29:57 GMT -5
You can also look at buying from a company that directly imports scooters and has a good supply of parts for those scooters. One that has been around for a number of years and is a member of forums like this one and has a good reputation. We support all the bikes we import fully for both our dealers and our retail customers. Since we work directly with the manufacturer we do have some control over the quality and which parts go on our scooters. It was comments similar to these that pulled me in. It's a pretty convincing two-step, and I have even seen a few people singing your praises. But it looks like there's a hard and fast limit for what you can do as well, based on your BBB rating. I don't think any dealer of Chinese scooters is immune from screwing over the customer when; A: The manufacturer / distributor won't stand behind a defective machine. and B: The dealer doesn't wish to cover the problems at their own expense because they don't feel they have any responsibility for the problems. And this happens all too often, regardless of how well one researches their purchase.
|
|
|
Post by hardd1 on Aug 19, 2010 3:23:23 GMT -5
Distributors of lower tier scooters do not compensate dealers for warranty labor time...online scooter purchases are simply a buyer beware transaction as labor is at owners expense. Many of these distributors demand the defective parts be shipped to them(at your expense) for examination prior to honoring the warranty parts claim. Not uncomon for buyers(victims)to bear the shipping/handling costs for warranty parts
|
|
suem
New Puppy Dawg
Posts: 2
|
Post by suem on Dec 15, 2010 15:54:24 GMT -5
Someone had posted recently suggesting that dealers should avoid doing any business whatsoever with Roketa for the sake of themselves and their customers. I was going to chime in to offer agreement, but it looks like the server crash ate the post. So here we are. I consider this an important topic, because there is a somewhat hidden hierarchy in the Chinese scooter biz that casual buyers aren't going to be aware of. At the top of the chain is the actual manufacturer. These folks are the ones with their names on the title. After that, you have the "branders" / big importers, who will take these machines and slap their name and model number on them (Roketa seems to be one of these). There may even be another party in the chain before filtering down to the dealer... at least there was in my case. I bought a $4150 3 wheel reverse trike scooter, AKA Spyder, AKA MC-95-250, AKA 250MB-2, AKA Can-Am Spyder Chinese knockoff from ThriftyScooters.com, run by JR Wolters. To make a long story short, it was in nightmare condition. Multiple paint runs, rust pits and chromed over grind marks on the muffler (which is now very loud after only 800miles), defective enricher, a non-sealing gas cap which has allowed gas to eat the paint surrounding it, many items only half assembled, a low quality seat with the vinyl applied crooked, a gas tank float that came off in the first tank of gas, and worst of all, the head on the motor was not tightened down which caused it to pop exhaust past the head gasket and dumped coolant into my oil. JR Wolters pshawed the list of defects, stating that he had sold 120 units and never had a single complaint, as though that somehow negated the multitude of problems with my machine, while having only 3 positive reviews of that unit on his site. After much back and forth and little progress, I found myself at the mercy of Infinity Accessories (http://www.infinityaccessories.net/) who ThriftyScooters apparently buys their scooters from, and who apparently purchases from Roketa. After calling them multiple times, they started using the caller ID to stop answering my calls. I spoke to someone at Roketa (I believe) who offered to send me new panels that were a different color, which I would have needed to paint anyway, so no better than the drippy ones I have. I told them I wanted a seat cover so I could fix the seat and a muffler to replace the defective one on the machine. It never happened. In total, I received as part of the supposed "warranty" an option to remove the entire engine from the machine and return it to them, a new head gasket, a tie-rod end boot, an enricher unit, and a fuel tank sender unit. I spent many hours working on this "new" machine, not just a PDI, but actually building / repairing it so I could use it. I tightened the head myself at the advice of a local cycle mechanic and it's holding so far. I'm still driving a loud, cosmetically different than advertised, poorly built $4150 machine that was supposed to be new. So this is the problem that is going to affect anyone purchasing from a dealer like JR Wolters and ThriftyScooters.com. They are just drop shippers who never see the product before it goes to the customer. Companies like Infinity Accessories don't care if junk ends up in the customers hands because they can just defer to the dealer, who defers back to them. Roketa doesn't care because they are sheltered from the dealer and the end customer by Infinity Accessories, and the manufacturer ( I want to say Kandi because thats what the plate on my machine says, but my title says Meng) is even further removed from the mess. In the end, it's all about money. If the manufacturer knows they have a "dud", it will make it's way all of the way to the customer because wherever it stops, that's where the money is lost. So if the "brander", Roketa in this instance, doesn't stand behind the product with their name on it, everyone below them loses, with the end customer being the one who loses the most. So to bring this back to where it started, why any dealer would want to do business with a company who leaves their customers out to dry the way Roketa did me is incomprehensible. I had my eye on the new, even more costly KD-250-MD side by side, but it looks like the supply chain for that unit is exactly the same as my Spyder clone, so that would be utter insanity. What drop shipping internet dealer is going to eat the cost of the manufacturers issues that start popping up on one of those? And if a company does this to someone on a $4150 machine, how much do you think they will care when you buy one that costs a third of that or less? But in fairness, after many months and excuses, and me informing JR Wolters that I intended to take my experience with Thrifty Scooters, Infinity Accessories and Roketa public to save others the terrible experience I continue to endure at their collective hands, he claimed he had secured the muffler and the seat I told him would make the other issues bearable. He informed me that he secured these items at his own cost and expected me to write a positive review of the machine and ThriftyScooters in exchange for them, and that I needed to send in my current seat and muffler before he would ship them out. I informed him that I ride the machine nearly every day, and asked him to please send the parts to me first so I could replace them and not be without a functional machine for the 2 week turnaround, assuming he even had the parts he claimed to have had. He refused, of course, and told me I can send the parts to him in several months when I am not riding. I told him to stuff it. So there you have it. Good dealers are important, but good distributors / manufacturers are much, much more important. I don't know where in the Chinese scooter chain IceBear is, but I am curious how / if my situation would have been different were they in it somewhere. I think we need to start looking at the entire lineage to protect ourselves, and not just the person with the website we click the "buy" button on. I agree with you completely, I have a brick and mortar place less than an hour away that carries the spider clone. From what I can tell it is apparently made by Kandi and rebranded a number of times. I read someplace in the last few days that Roketa may have gone under. www.soluscorp.com who apparently is the US importer(?) lists six month warranty on the beast KD-250MB2 a quite different number from what roketa uses. It's funny because most places don't list a six month warranty, like you said apparently all in the end sale. Kandi has a website too with a online parts store. After all you went through with yours getting it all fixed up do you like it? Do you feel it's a solid frame etc? I have read over and over that any chinese scooter should basically be given the strip down and every single bolt, nut, screw, bracket, gasket, etc. checked for tightness and I've also seen a report that the bracket for the plastic stuff in the back was missing off his spider clone. I also hear the first thing to do is replace the crappy chinese fluids (oil and transmission fluids) with good stuff. This guy isn't a put it together yourself drop shipper at all, the front ends don't arrive aligned. I was curious if any tire shop could align one of these since it's basically a very small car on the front end... I don't see why they couldn't, some of those mini commuter cars out there are no bigger than the front end of the spider. What I'm reading into what you've said is that once you were past all the poor assembly and messed up parts that yours is giving you daily service. How hard did you find it to get used to it? I know these are nothing like a two wheeler but did it take you more than an hour or two to figure it out?
|
|
|
Post by Beardoggie1 on May 12, 2011 8:27:18 GMT -5
MC-95-250 Reverse 3 wheel trike. I bought my Trike from (or through) JR Wolters, owner of Thrifty Scooters (ThriftyScooters) (ThriftyScooters.com) . After much research about dealers and 75% of the would not answer their phone or return calls I decided to go with JR. At least he did answer my call and questions. The thing to remember is that he does not build these bikes. He only brokers them from a central distributor. The bike actual came through a Distributor Kandi USA - Wholesale to Powersports Dealers. What I found out is that all of these dealers are deceptive. Every one of them including lead you to believe that they bring the bike in to their facility and make ready it and ship it package it and ship it to you, THIS IS NOT TRUE. On several occasions I contacted the dealer who gave me this same line. Most were in California. When I told them that I had a friend near their location and wanted him to inspect the trike that I wanted to buy I hot all kind of excuses why this wasn't possible. This was dealers that said they had Million square foot ware house. Actually it was easy to obtain their real address and when I Google Earth their location they were in mall store front or small ware houses scarcely a 1000 feet. When I checked out JR. He or She had a trail that wouldn't quit. His cell phone No pops up in several places. www.selectautocycle.com Say that Select Auto & Cycle has been acquired by Thriftyscooters.com Same Number Same Name. www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&biw=960&bih=403&q=2084409610&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq= Same Name Same Number www.hotfrog.com/Companies/Select-Auto-Cycle = Same Name Same Number www.relaxing-hottubs.info/boise/details/pool-hot-tub-filterheatertimer-boise-100 = Same Name Same Number cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Scooter-Helmet-Blowout-/140542366038 History 4-15-2011 Received new and upgraded MC-95-250. I have not had any stability problems, it drives like a four wheeler. Apparently the new Manufacture incorporates all of the fixes. My dealer (Thrifty Scooters) recommended I have the scooter delivered to the freight terminal as most of the fright damage happens from the terminal and the delivery company which are often second party contractors. My machine was shipped by UPS fright and was packaged well and rapped in clear plastic which allowed me to check for damage with out have to take the box apart. They loaded it on my ( borrowed ) trailer and home I went. Unpacking was a snap. Removed the clear plastic, cut the tie down wires (4) remove 2 board and rolled the scooter off. Taking crate apart was and disposing of took the time. No problems getting the scooter registered in Mississippi. Got the plats, Inspection sticker and insurance (geico 1 year $99.00) all in the same day. First Problems: encountered out of the box. 1. Had to remove the plastic on the handle bars to adjust the hand brake to in stall the right hand mirror. 2. Speedometer did not work. The plug in located at the base of the back wheel was not connected. Nothing about this in owners manual. 3. Hose clamps are junk. Installed new stainless steel clamps and replace the water with 50/50 coolant. 4. Check ALL Bolts and lock-tight all vital bolts. (was recommended by my dealer) 4-25-2011. Have used the trike for a hundred miles. It gets about 50 MPG @ 45 MPH. Checked it with a GPS because the speedometer in erratic. It jumps from 30 to 40 with out an increase in speed. Problems discovered and corrected . 1. Mirrors. Just loctite them. There not enough room to get a wrench around the nut. 2. Muffler bolts came loose - Loctite them 3. Starter wiring puled out of the socket. Checked all the wiring and taped every connection and put wire shielding on all exposed wires. (it look better) 4. Changed the oil with out any problem but could not find the transmission fill hole. Nothing in the manual about it. After 4 days of looking and getting no help from my dealer did locate it . It on the left back side of the transmission. (by the trans vent screen) ( left side of bike facing forward) 5. Tire pressure - Tires were under inflated (By fault) 40 psi made the bike much more stable. 6. Seat is CHEAP CHEAP and is uncomfortable. 7. I would not ever drive this machine at 60 MPH it is way too unstable on rough roads, and for me that is ok. I live in the country and most of the reads are 45 or less. If you are going to try and drive this to work on a freeway you taking you life in your hands. I would not want to flip this thing at 55 or 60 MPH. Now the pluses: I like this bike and it runs well and looks great. Every time I go to town every one really looks at and when I went to the restraint, every one came out to look it. I am happy with it and does what I want it for (to cruise around my local area). I am glad I invested $4450.00 instead of 20K+ for a Can-am . I have read about the problems with their steering locking up and people getting killed. I suggest you Google can-am problems. You will find allot of links about their problems and their refusal to wariness them. If you look at their video, the machines are going slow. I haven't seen any of them up in the 60 - 70 MPG range. Parts: You can sigh up and buy parts direct. I ordered a chain and Sprocket to have (just in case) for $65.00 plus @20 shipping. If you go to the following links: www.roketa.com/product/product_su....D=0&proID=47108www.roketa.com/register/sign_in.jsp?action=May 10-2011 1. Tightened more bolts. Princely mounted a GPS because the Speedometer is Junk and is erratic. (of course it gets 70 MPG when the speedometer shows 50 MPH while the GPS shoes 40 MPH ) It really gets around 45 MPG. 2. Fixed the break light adjustment. It just stayed on. Remember the Chinese mostly get paid on peace work. All they have to do is attached it. Adjustment takes time! 3. Let pressure out of the air shock. Steering stability and ride condition improved dramatically when I lowered it to 40 psi from 110 psi. Remember this This thing will kill you if you try to go over 50 MPH . I feel safe at 45 or less. If you have ever driven a 4-wheeler it drives just like that. And forget two people. At 30 MPH it is nest to impossible to handle. Attachments:
|
|
|
Post by TERRA NUVO on May 12, 2011 9:15:51 GMT -5
PASSION VS LOGIC
I understand that folks love the trikes, but I don't see how folks go near them after post after post of grand larceny on the part of dealers.
Of course you never hear from the folks who got a ice bear great ride, many of whom come thru Rapid Jim i bet.
I just would not go near one of these things without a great dealer back up.
These bikes just don't lend themselves to simplicity, the only manner in which to own anything or it becomes toxic.
For me nothing makes me hate myself faster then keeping a lover I know is toxic, bikes are no different.
If this was Toyota it would make headlines, but DOT has had its butt so silenced by many GOVT agency's to keep the t-bills selling every afternoon with American to Chinese export dollars, that our country can no longer afford to do the only thing GOVT morally should be doing ------------------protect us.
I am sorry to say cause i know it will get me nailed to a cross, but with forums like this going out all over the world, as a consumer group these dealers could be shut down quickly, if more folks showed the self respect this man did.
I would never get on a bike again if it meant keeping my respect for my self.
|
|
|
Post by Beardoggie1 on May 12, 2011 9:29:38 GMT -5
You are right - If I wasn't very mechanical and have the tools and jacks to get under this thing to find the problems I would have been screwed. This is not an out of the box machine. and every time you buy a Chinese machine you are on your own. There is no help from the dealer - and warranty is a joke - Lucky I can get parts for this trike. Thanks for the comment Attachments:
|
|
|
Post by TERRA NUVO on May 12, 2011 18:51:51 GMT -5
bjlopez11
what ever the case, you look good on that trike, i have a hot date sat. night, can i borrow it and maybe a Hawaiian shirt if you got one?
|
|
|
Post by Beardoggie1 on May 13, 2011 5:52:43 GMT -5
We need one of these on our road - German Engineering at it finest!
|
|
|
Post by Cookees on May 13, 2011 20:51:28 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Beardoggie1 on May 23, 2011 14:20:41 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by chyder on May 27, 2011 11:13:54 GMT -5
Looks neat. If I tried to make a video like this of my trike, it would take 15 minutes to shoot the video, and two hours to pick up the broken pieces which fell off.
|
|
|
Post by dudley on May 27, 2011 12:26:15 GMT -5
not sure of the point of that video. scoot seemed under powered(trouble getting up the small hill). clattering made it obvious it should not be used offroad, why video it there? who are they going to sell that now abused low mileage scoot to, and then refuse to fix what they damaged?
|
|
|
Post by asiny on May 27, 2011 13:54:51 GMT -5
not sure of the point of that video. scoot seemed under powered(trouble getting up the small hill). clattering made it obvious it should not be used offroad, why video it there? who are they going to sell that now abused low mileage scoot to, and then refuse to fix what they damaged? From a consumer point of view - that video is quite educational. I admit the scooter does seem very underpowered - but don't you think the video represents that well. Especially as many sites list some of these units able of doing 60? Even though it presents that the vehicle should not be used off-road, it gives an incredible example of the handling and manoeuvrability. If the scooter can do that off-road, then on-road it must handle really well. One would hope this scooter is put on a shelf and used for demo only ;D
|
|
|
Post by oldfolkcruisers on Sept 3, 2011 10:53:02 GMT -5
wasn't that a 50cc only? That is why underpowered, and look at the size of the rider for a 50cc. Not defending the scooter, just noting.
|
|
|
Post by freedomscoot on Sept 3, 2011 12:57:05 GMT -5
Sorry to hear of this tragic tale.
My philosophy with buying Chinese vehicles: For under $1300, a chinese scooter/ATV/dirtbike, etc can be a decent bargain, if you can do repairs/maitenance yourself and aren't expecting high quality.
The thing is, the quality of their vehicles doesn't improve as the price goes up...and not only that, but as you get into bigger, more complex vehicles, the quality actually seems to decline, just due to the added complexity and the fact that there are more components, hence more items to be of poor quality. The fit and finish do not seem to increase in quality either, with the increase in price. On the contrary, the poor quality finish and defects seem to be even moire noticeable on the larger vehicles.
Too late for the OP, but maybe this will help someone else who is considering shelling out thousands of dollars for a larger Chinese ATV or a 4x4 Chinese ATV or a UTV.....DON'T!
Want to buy a little ATV for the kids for $700? You can't go wrong, as long as you are at least a little handy- you'll get a lot more bang for the buck than paying thousands for a Japanese one...ditto scooters and stuff. The engines are clones of good old tried and true Japanese major brands...and the vehicle designs have been being manufactured for years, so at this point they are pretty good for the price...but when you get into higher-priced stuff...more complicated stuff...higher/more-modern technology....watch out! The fact that many of the dealers are shady, doesn't help. And many of the dealers don't really even know what they are getting when they order from the distributor or manufacturer....they sometimes will send a container of mixed units (older and newer versions of the same model)...models that are different and not to the specs of the ones ordered, etc. Even for the dealers, dealing with Chinese stuff is often a crapshoot....but it is the customer who loses.
I'm not knocking Chinese stuff...I think it's great that we can buy a scooter or low-end ATV for a quarter of the price of Japanese...and they can be quite serviceable, if one is realistic in their expectations.... but the benefit to buying Chinese is in inverse proportion to the money spent. Moral of the story is: Don't pay thousands of dollars for ANYTHING Chinese! You pay $500 for a quad for your 8 year-old, you can live with a cheesey finish, mediocre performance and some repairs and work-arounds right out of the box...but when you pay thousands of dollars for something- even if it is way cheaper than a comparable Jap product, you expect nice paint and decent performance and not to have to do repairs on day one.
|
|
|
Post by Cookees on Sept 3, 2011 20:40:21 GMT -5
I disagree...you can't paint with such a broad brush. There are some really good quality upper level Chinese ATV/UTV products. CFMOTO atv's and utv's, Linhai and Adly come to mind.
|
|
|
Post by freedomscoot on Sept 3, 2011 22:31:22 GMT -5
I disagree...you can't paint with such a broad brush. There are some really good quality upper level Chinese ATV/UTV products. CFMOTO atv's and utv's, Linhai and Adly come to mind. You may be right...but I'll bet the prices of those good brands are pretty comparable to a Japanese job, no? (Not that I'm a an of Japanese stuff...their quality has declined seriously over the years...)
|
|