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Post by rony on Jan 19, 2009 1:55:06 GMT -5
Hi, We went to China to check the production of the 09 Roadrunner iScooters. This is the first time we talk about it on the internet. I decided to post it on scootdawg first because I know everyone here is serious about scooters. I'll start posting this in a few other places in 2 weeks or so. This is a scootdawg exclusive! We were very happy with the overall quality of the bikes and we think our customers will be impressed. We personally checked about 80% of the bikes. The rest was done by factory personnel that we trained over 1 week. Each customer will find a sheet under the seat cover, it will either have my signature or one of 3 other people. Our QC was performed by installing an external gas tank to the fuel pump. Each scooter got started both with the kick start and electric start. Our QC list has over 70 points on it. We based it on your commentaries and feed back, on Stan's PDI list and on our knowledge of past problems. Some bikes were test on the machine to verify top speed, acceleration and brake performance. As for me, I always prefer to stick with the old fashion way and take the scooter for an actual ride after I checked everything that needs to be before riding. We have not left one stone unturned. I was very pleased with the way the bikes ride. The handling, acceleration and overall performance is impressive. The new GTX was very bouncy in my opinion but we finally figured out it was because the air pressure was too high. My own personal favorite is still the RR250ZRX. We discontinued the RR150ZRX and replaced it with the RR150GTX, that is a faster scooter. The RR50GTX is the only 50cc scooter with MP3 player. By the way, all the 50cc iScooters have a 7amp system and all scooters come with a battery charger. We found little problems here and there and we believe we fixed them all. There were some 13" rims with damage because the machine was set for a 10" rim. All were replaced. The gas filter was bad in a few bikes, the factory ended up changing all of them. Other than that, the loose front fender here, the bad headlight there... We even properly set the idle speed and adjusted the brakes. All the electrical parts are working and verified best quality. These bikes are perfect. The crates are 3mm metal for 150 and 250cc scooters. The 50's come with a 2.4mm crate. This compared to your regular cheap Chinese scooter at 1.5mm. The Roadrunners are less likely to get damaged in shipping. A couple things we were not so happy with and did not have time to correct for this production is the oil change. There is lots of metal in the oil. This will be corrected in the next production. Each engine is tested for 10 to 20 minutes at the factory (before it is put on the scooter). We asked the engine factory to change the oil after this initial test, they agreed. We will make sure this happens on the next production run. The other thing was the alarm system on the RR250TLX. The one on the RR250ZRX is beautiful, works great and sensitivity can be adjusted. The one the RR250TLX comes with is well, let's just say better not use it... Although there were problems, we were pleased with the factory's response and everyone's eagerness to produce a quality bike. I know there are many people who say "Chinese bikes are junk" but that is only true for importers who order bikes with junk parts. The factories in China want to improve, all they need is someone to show them what to do. We will continue to travel to China every time we produce Roadrunner iScooters. This is the only way we can insure we deliver a quality scooter. There is a new MP3 controller too. That is a very nice piece that works well. The music is very loud and it can read music from an SD card, USB drive or other USB MP3 player. Unfortunately we were not able to get it to work with iPod or iPhone. Working on that for the next production run. I wish I could post some movies, but I guess you will have to wait until we put them on YouTube. There are some pictures of the bikes and some pictures from the engine factory. There are some pictures of new 400cc motorcycles that we are considering to pickup... Only one problem I don't know how to load pictures on here?? I thought I did before? If someone tells me how to load pictures, I will post a bunch of them. Rony evosales.comiscooterparts.com |
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Post by rony on Jan 19, 2009 1:56:16 GMT -5
By the way, according to the factory, ours is the first US bound scooter order to ship in 09...
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Post by therustyaxe on Jan 19, 2009 6:10:48 GMT -5
I appreciate your detailed post. Please keep us apprised of any new developments.
As for Pictures, just host them with photobucket.com or imageshack.com. They give you a code to paste in forums and it is entirely free.
Free = ;D
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Post by allworld on Jan 19, 2009 8:00:47 GMT -5
Hello rony:
This is good news for people considering a new scooter, the problem that many previous costumers have had with EVO sales is the customer support. Hopefully that is being addressed.
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Post by rony on Jan 19, 2009 17:07:49 GMT -5
Thanks for letting me know about photobucket. Here is the link to see the pictures. s540.photobucket.com/albums/gg331/ronyevo/You will find many interesting pictures on there. As for the comment about customer support, most of our problems were caused by the fact that we were selling other brands (Tank, Roketa...) and were overwhelmed by the amount of problems that were hitting us. Now that we have our own RR scooters coming, we should have a lot less problems to deal with and should be able to cope with the customer service requests. It's not only easier for us to support our own bikes (since we control the parts and know exactly how the bikes are constructed), we also tested every one of these bikes so we know there will be fewer problems. We are sorry that we had to sell these other brands for a while but we really did not have a choice. This should never happen again. Rony evosales.comiscooterparts.com |
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Post by rony on Jan 19, 2009 17:19:43 GMT -5
By the way, thank you for the bones. I guess many people don't like me too much. It was at -3 yesterday so I guess this post earned me some brownie points...
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Post by rony on Jan 19, 2009 17:41:37 GMT -5
Another thing everyone should know: the factory owner said that in his 30 years in this business he never had a customer come and check every single bike.
This is the first time we dealt with this factory in Taizhou. We were very impressed with their commitment to quality and their eagerness to improve the scooters.
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Post by DaveR on Jan 19, 2009 18:47:39 GMT -5
rony,
just my two cents worth on your free ad.. I have made one parts purchase from you, and the chance of me ever spending another cent at your parts sales, or scooter sales would be a giant ZERO.. thanks for the info, but you have lost me as a customer forever.. Dave
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Post by Cookees on Jan 19, 2009 20:48:30 GMT -5
Rory,
Great post and pics. I'm curious. You say this is the first time you are dealing with this particular factory. How did you come to choose them?
Usually when you look at a Chinese company website they show the factory as being something right out of Detroit...all high tech.
Your pics show an average factory. Maybe the fact that they are small gives you better QC over the production of your brand.
Best wishes...
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Post by rony on Jan 19, 2009 23:11:35 GMT -5
Hi Cookees, Sorry to disapoint you  I'm sure if you look for the brochure of the factory, it will look like a multi-million $$ facility. We visited many factories in China, they are all pretty much the same. This particular plant makes many different products (massage chairs, aluminum products...) As for automation, all factories are about the same level; labor is still cheap in China. Some factories have R&D; these tend to be much more expensive but come out with new products all the time. The 400cc motorcycles are the perfect example. There is also a new 500cc scooter coming soon. These are from companies that develop bikes from the ground up, frame, body and engine. We chose Taizhou because it is the scooter city of China; and the prices were better too. It's easier to get quality parts and skilled labor in Taizhou because 70% of all China's scooters are made there. One of the amazing things in China, is the ability for factories to add staff. It is not uncommon to get 500 extra workers in a day. They call the employment office or something and the next morning 500 more people show up. Rony evosales.comiscooterparts.com |
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Post by rony on Jan 19, 2009 23:16:24 GMT -5
.. thanks for the info, but you have lost me as a customer forever.. Dave Hi Dave, I'm sorry about that. Let me know if you ever change your mind and decide to give us a second chance. Even we can do better; maybe we screwed it up the first time but we make constant improvement and strive to bring great quality scooters at super low prices... Rony evosales.comiscooterparts.com |
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Post by hardd1 on Jan 20, 2009 2:00:34 GMT -5
good luck on your business venture....the RR scoots resemble Tank products. hopefully they are of better quality and you provide adequate support after the sale
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Post by rony on Jan 20, 2009 15:11:56 GMT -5
good luck on your business venture....the RR scoots resemble Tank products. hopefully they are of better quality and you provide adequate support after the sale All Chinese scooters look alike. Tank, Roketa, SunL, Avanti, Lifan, Baron, NST... to name a few. This is because only a few factories actually design bikes. Those that do end up licensing the body to other factories. This results in most of the bikes looking identical. What makes the difference is what parts were used (China does offer many different quality parts, from junk to super high quality), the QC that was performed on the bike and how they deal with warranty issues and customer service. In most cases, the end user never gets to speak with the actual importer of the scooter, they only talk with the dealer. Rony evosales.comiscooterparts.com |
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Post by rampant on Jan 20, 2009 17:08:47 GMT -5
dont know how iscooterparts come up with their pricing , but im not even an importer or dealer but i can get the same parts for less than half of what they ask on most parts, so why would i ever buy from them
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Post by Cookees on Jan 22, 2009 19:56:29 GMT -5
Rony,
This thread was hyjacked...
Did you pay the ransom to get it back???
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Post by medman1952 on Jan 22, 2009 23:48:47 GMT -5
Rony, This thread was hyjacked... Did you pay the ransom to get it back??? Yes, he doubled my moderator salary for the next five years. |
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Post by rony on Jan 23, 2009 4:28:41 GMT -5
dont know how iscooterparts come up with their pricing , but im not even an importer or dealer but i can get the same parts for less than half of what they ask on most parts, so why would i ever buy from them You should know that we get many parts orders and people often tell us that we have the best price. Maybe you were comparing prices that include shipping with prices that don't? Do you have specific items that I could check? Rony evosales.comiscooterparts.com |
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Post by rony on Jan 23, 2009 4:29:32 GMT -5
Rony, This thread was hyjacked... Did you pay the ransom to get it back??? No negotiations with kidnappers; it's against the rules. But in this case we make an exception. |
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Post by cprevost on Jan 24, 2009 14:34:45 GMT -5
Well,
I ordered some body panels from iscooterparts.com and got good service so far. The parts are on the way and I should get them in the next couple of days. As for price they were half of what I'd have to pay anywhere else I've found them. I plan on reporting here when the parts arrive to let people know how the whole experience went. So far so good though...
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Post by jdikov on Jan 24, 2009 19:08:37 GMT -5
Yes Rony you are quite right, there are basically only a few companies, like Jonway, that make the plastic components for all the scooters comming out of China and that is why they all look the same. The big difference is in the factory used to assemble the scooter, the quality of the parts the importer specifies and the QC. In order to get a good quality scooter out of China you MUST have somebody you can trust monitoring the production and testing each scooter before it leaves the factory. We have learned this the hard way over the last 5 years and now have our own representative doing just that for all the scooters we bring in under our name.
I think that in the next year or 2 we will see many of the brands that are out there go away due to poor quality and get replaced with a few others that take the time and money to make sure they are making a quality product. The second factor is parts support. This has been a major factor for most of the larger distributors like Roketa that try to carry every model under the sun but never seem to have any parts to support them. ( I won't even get into the QC issues some of them have) The whole point is that things will get better for the consumer as the field gets cut down and only the better quality companies survive.
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Post by Scootless Wonder on Jan 24, 2009 22:06:52 GMT -5
I have a couple of questions about the scoots themselves. First I will admit I'm fairly new to the scooter scene and I haven't had the chance to poke around many of the bigger ones. That being said, after looking at your pics on photobucket:
The MP3 player, is that available in the 50cc scoots or is it a feature implemented in only the larger models (I come from a state where 50cc is the biggest you can have and not register it so that's a BIG factor in my considerations since I'm not looking to add another motorcycle to my insurance)
Next question: The pic showing the MP3 player itself, I noticed a tank in front of the compartment. Now noting that the fuel filler cap was clearly evident behind this underseat compartment, what is the tank in front of it for?
Next question in my barrage: Has there been any type of lengthy testing period planned for these scoots? Are you planning on having one shipped and riding it for a while to give her a full workout so that you know exactly what it is you'll be selling?
The shavings in the oil worry me slightly. Now I know it MAY just be something that happens with scoots when they're first built and run but after being a mechanic for a number of years on cars, instict SCREAMS at me that oil + metal shavings = BAD juju. So where are these shavings coming from and why are they not cleared out before the engine is ever turned over the first time?
Last question (for now): Is there a price for the 50cc models yet or no?
I'm sure I'll have more questions later as well as after you've answered this barrage but thanks for bearing with me so far.
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Post by medman1952 on Jan 25, 2009 0:17:43 GMT -5
If you want prices, I'm sure they are on his web page, click the link in his signature for Evo Sales.
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Post by Scootless Wonder on Jan 25, 2009 9:32:29 GMT -5
No price for the RoadRunners that I saw there yet.
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Post by rony on Jan 25, 2009 20:00:28 GMT -5
In order to get a good quality scooter out of China you MUST have somebody you can trust monitoring the production and testing each scooter before it leaves the factory. We have learned this the hard way over the last 5 years and now have our own representative doing just that for all the scooters we bring in under our name. We tried having someone do that for us but found that there is no better way than doing it ourselves. Not only we personally insure every bike is free of defect, it also give us a great opportunity to work directly with the engineers to improve the products and QC process. For example, if someone used the remote start on the 250ZRX and later shut the bike down with the kill switch without resetting the alarm, then the next time around the bike is started, when the key is turned off and taken out, the engine keeps running. We worked with the main guy responsible for the electrical system designs and resolved that problem by wiring the alarm so that when the ignition is on, the alarm is off. It would have been impossible to fix this kind of problem without being there in person. Rony evosales.comiscooterparts.com |
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Post by rony on Jan 25, 2009 20:04:40 GMT -5
Well, I ordered some body panels from iscooterparts.com and got good service so far. The parts are on the way and I should get them in the next couple of days. As for price they were half of what I'd have to pay anywhere else I've found them. I plan on reporting here when the parts arrive to let people know how the whole experience went. So far so good though... Thanks for the order and your findings about our prices. Are you going to paint your body parts? Although the part should fit, the color may not match the Motofino... Rony, evosales.comiscooterparts.com |
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Post by rony on Jan 25, 2009 20:23:48 GMT -5
Summary of questions with numbers: 1. The MP3 player, is that available in the 50cc scoots? 2. What is the tank in front of it for? 3. Has there been any type of lengthy testing period planned for these scoots? Are you planning on having one shipped and riding it for a while to give her a full workout so that you know exactly what it is you'll be selling? 4. So where are these shavings coming from and why are they not cleared out before the engine is ever turned over the first time? 5. Is there a price for the 50cc models yet or no? Hi, 1. The RR50GTX is the only 50cc model that comes with MP3. 2. The tank you see in the picture is the coolant tank off a water cooled RR250ZRX 3. 09 is the 3rd year for RoadRunner iScooters. Although we used a new factory, the bikes are the same. We would not offer a 2 year warranty on the engine if it was otherwise. 4. Somewhere along the engine assembly process there are little metal sparkles that end up in the oil. As I mentioned at the top of this post, this problem is resolved for the next production run. Although you are 100% right, metal in oil = bad. This is not so bad because the oil is changed at 300km. Many people change the oil as soon as they get the bike. That will no longer be necessary going forward. 5. The price has not yet been set, and forum rules ask that prices not be posted here. Rony evosales.comiscooterparts.com |
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Post by HarmZway on Jan 25, 2009 20:52:55 GMT -5
Tell us more about the 500cc scooter.
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Post by Scootless Wonder on Jan 25, 2009 21:03:36 GMT -5
Awesome. And is there any release date estimated on the 50GTX?
What colors are available for it?
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Post by rony on Jan 25, 2009 23:48:33 GMT -5
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Post by rony on Jan 25, 2009 23:54:19 GMT -5
Awesome. And is there any release date estimated on the 50GTX? What colors are available for it? The RR50GTX is expected in the first part of March. The colors are red, yellow, black, orange and purple. Rony, evosales.comiscooterparts.com |
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