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Post by moorso on Oct 14, 2012 10:04:14 GMT -5
So I thought I had that old Shanghai Meitian all rewired and ready to go. But now I got a problem. It seems like when I hook the tail light into the bikes circuitry it causes some problems. Turn the ignition on and back light comes on and the instrument lights come one and wait about 5 seconds then everything shuts down. Turn ignition switch off and let it sit for a bit and turn ignition switch on and it will power up again.
Acts like some something is warming up just enough when those two sets of lights are on to make it shut down.
I have
1)bypassed the light selector switch on the right handle bars
2)wired in a toggle switch to control the starter solenoid relay
3)wired in a new relay and toggle switch to turn the headlights off at ignition startup and select high or low headlight beams instead of the hi-lo handlebar switch
I cant think of anything that "warm" up enough to shut it down. Any ideas?
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Post by tvnacman on Oct 14, 2012 10:27:51 GMT -5
Pull a heaver ground wire from the battery all around the scooter.
John
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Post by moorso on Oct 14, 2012 11:06:23 GMT -5
Pull a heaver ground wire from the battery all around the scooter. John Where do you start and which ones, all of the green wires? Could it be leaking to ground somewhere? |
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Post by carasdad on Oct 14, 2012 11:38:03 GMT -5
Dies it have a ballast resistor for the lighting?..some older models do..
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Post by tvnacman on Oct 14, 2012 12:00:05 GMT -5
All of the grounds.
John
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Post by moorso on Oct 14, 2012 12:29:00 GMT -5
Dies it have a ballast resistor for the lighting?..some older models do.. What would that look like? There are a few things on it I dont know what they are. I'll go and take pictures and we can play "wtf is this thing" game.  |
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Post by moorso on Oct 14, 2012 12:37:48 GMT -5
I have some heavy gauge wire, probably 14 gauge...I could tie all the ground together on the front end of the bike and run one large ground back and do the same on the back of the bike. Is it possible that by taking a lot of the electrical service out and leaving some that I am somehow backfeeding something that shouldnt be? The only original accessory equipment switches I have running now is the turn signals, the rear brake light and the horn. The startup button, the light selector switch, the dimmer switch are all gone now. The generic wiring diagram says there is a rear brake switch for startup and an emergency kill switch....neither of which I have. Heres some pics. Whats this?  I know this...new carb, new fuel line and filter  Single green ground wire coming from front does look pretty chincy  But what is this? Is this the CDI?  And this? Its no kind of a fuse I can tell you that  How about this with the screwdriver stuck in the side..just kiddin. Oh wait, maybe thats the rectifier.  |
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Post by carasdad on Oct 14, 2012 13:42:06 GMT -5
The top pic..with the 2 corroded pieces in it...is your lighting ballast resistor..and the rest of the pics...you guessed right.. |
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Post by moorso on Oct 14, 2012 14:11:50 GMT -5
The top pic..with the 2 corroded pieces in it...is your lighting ballast resistor..and the rest of the pics...you guessed right.. So you asked about the lighting ballast and I have one....is this a potential problem somehow and wouldnt it have been one before I did all this stuff? |
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Post by tvnacman on Oct 14, 2012 15:25:38 GMT -5
pre 2007 scooter
John
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Post by carasdad on Oct 14, 2012 17:18:52 GMT -5
The top pic..with the 2 corroded pieces in it...is your lighting ballast resistor..and the rest of the pics...you guessed right.. So you asked about the lighting ballast and I have one....is this a potential problem somehow and wouldnt it have been one before I did all this stuff? That is the fun thing about electrical components...like a 3 year old child..they rarely if ever follow the rules...and do as they please. But your lighting ballast is a resistor...and anything that resists the flow of current produces heat...and when electrical components get hot...they either stop working...work intermittently..or do their own thing. A PC is a good example...what happens when the processor gets hot?.. mouse acts goofy..programs freeze...keyboard won't work...then the Blue Screen of Death and it crashes. Let it sit 30 mins...it cools down...boots and runs fine till it gets hot again. Anyway. I have seen ballast resistors go bad and act the way your scoot is. Is that the problem?...anybodies guess since we are not there doing a 'hands on' with a multimeter. The ballast resistor is too absorb extra current so your bulbs don't blow out. Which leads to another question...why would they be getting extra current..is part of the rectifier/voltage regulator bad?...what is your voltage from the rectifier before it gets to the ballast?.. |
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Post by tvnacman on Oct 14, 2012 18:05:32 GMT -5
did you wire your headlights dc ? if you did between the extra current from the headlights and all the dash light bulbs it will exceed what the ground can handle . My scooters don't have dimmers , what is it for dash brightness ?
John
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Post by moorso on Oct 14, 2012 18:37:50 GMT -5
did you wire your headlights dc ? if you did between the extra current from the headlights and all the dash light bulbs it will exceed what the ground can handle . My scooters don't have dimmers , what is it for dash brightness ? John Yes, I wired the headlights DC as it appears to be the case on the generic wiring diagram.  These headlights have a hi beam and a low beam. |
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Post by tvnacman on Oct 14, 2012 18:58:07 GMT -5
I sent you a pm go for the tag team!!!!!!
The diagram shows ac headlights!!!!!!!!!!!
John
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Post by carasdad on Oct 14, 2012 19:10:14 GMT -5
Good question...that I forgot to ask...is it an AC or DC system?..
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Post by tvnacman on Oct 14, 2012 19:21:29 GMT -5
Good question...that I forgot to ask...is it an AC or DC system?.. do you agree the diagram is ac headlights ? John |
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Post by moorso on Oct 14, 2012 19:50:05 GMT -5
I'm certainly no expert but it looks like power to the lights is coming off the battery. Follow the red power line coming off the battery over to the main switch (keyed switch) and feeding the dimmer switch, horn, rear brake switch, and turn signals at the lower left. The dimmer switch then either feeds the hi beam or low beam headlight.
I was able to read the white wire coming off the rectifier at 12.28 volts DC.
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Post by carasdad on Oct 14, 2012 20:00:33 GMT -5
Good question...that I forgot to ask...is it an AC or DC system?.. do you agree the diagram is ac headlights ? John Looks AC to me..this an easier diagram to read than his... Attachments:
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Post by tvnacman on Oct 14, 2012 20:12:30 GMT -5
look at the headlight again , the dimmer switch , looks like the hi or low beam selector , with flash to pass . the yellow off the stator feeds the light switch acv on the top of the page . on the top of the page the main switch feeds your dimmer , hornbutton and rear brake switch dcv . read the dimmerswitch . everything is sharing the same ground .
John
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Post by moorso on Oct 14, 2012 20:28:49 GMT -5
Yeah, I see what you're saying, I think, lol. So parts are ac and other parts dc? As of right now, the light switch at the top of the sheet is out of the equation. It has been disconnected along with the starter button. I need a fresh new look at this...I thought it would be simple to make some mods to this, but doesnt seem like it now.
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Post by EPAhater on Oct 14, 2012 20:39:02 GMT -5
Simplest way to do this is simply take the headlight on/off switch out of the equation and run the yellow regulated wire to the dimmer switch and change it to the way modern scooters are, head/tail lights on all the time, then no need for the load resistor since the lights will be on all the time.
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Post by moorso on Oct 14, 2012 20:55:42 GMT -5
Simplest way to do this is simply take the headlight on/off switch out of the equation and run the yellow regulated wire to the dimmer switch and change it to the way modern scooters are, head/tail lights on all the time, then no need for the load resistor since the lights will be on all the time. Well right now I have the lights wired in dc I guess to come on automatically when the key is turned on. I took power for this right off the downstream end of the keyed switch. |
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Post by tvnacman on Oct 14, 2012 20:59:29 GMT -5
I bet the key switch is getting hot !!!!
John
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Post by EPAhater on Oct 14, 2012 21:07:33 GMT -5
Simplest way to do this is simply take the headlight on/off switch out of the equation and run the yellow regulated wire to the dimmer switch and change it to the way modern scooters are, head/tail lights on all the time, then no need for the load resistor since the lights will be on all the time. Well right now I have the lights wired in dc I guess to come on automatically when the key is turned on. I took power for this right off the downstream end of the keyed switch. This stator won't support direct DC lights the battery will end up dead. Also the resistor is for the AC set up so it'll cause problems if you left it in the system on the DC side. If the old dimmer switch is good then the easiest and most simple way to stop all your issues is to again wire it up on the yellow wire from the R/R and run the head/tail lights like they were originally minus the on/off headlight switch and load resistor. Change your tail lights to LED's and the system will work very well. |
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Post by moorso on Oct 15, 2012 5:49:44 GMT -5
Well right now I have the lights wired in dc I guess to come on automatically when the key is turned on. I took power for this right off the downstream end of the keyed switch. This stator won't support direct DC lights the battery will end up dead. Also the resistor is for the AC set up so it'll cause problems if you left it in the system on the DC side. If the old dimmer switch is good then the easiest and most simple way to stop all your issues is to again wire it up on the yellow wire from the R/R and run the head/tail lights like they were originally minus the on/off headlight switch and load resistor. Change your tail lights to LED's and the system will work very well. So if I were to go this route, I would have to jump the yellow wire to the brown and black/white wire in the light switch on that diagram correct? Right now the switch is toast so I dont want to use it in the future. The brown wire appears to be feeding the tailight and the meter light. How can I tell if the yellow wire is powered up? Doesnt the scoot have to be running to supply ac power through the yellow wire? I know dumb question...electricity isnt my strong suit, for sure. I know enough to be dangerous, lol. I see though that the yellow also supplies power to the auto enricher which should be on when the key is on? Or does the cdi dictate when the auto enricher is powered. |
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Post by EPAhater on Oct 15, 2012 23:38:02 GMT -5
Don't worry about the on/off light switch especialy if it's toast. Modern scooters have the headlights on all the time and yes the brown wire is the typical color to the tail lights and they are on all the time just like the headlights so yes wire the yellow wire out of the R/R to the dimmer switch feed wire which will allow you to dim or brighten your lights.
The lights will not come on until you start the scooter and yes the autochoke will run off of AC or DC and can be wired also to the yellow wire or even the white wire form the stator it only needs volatge when the engine is running. The autochoke works by warming up and shutting off the extra fuel that you get on start up. So to answer your question, no the autochoke does not come on with just the key on. The autochoke when it cools opens up to allow extra fuel to the carb and shuts off when the voltage comes on and it heats up and shuts the extra fuel off.
The CDI gets it's power (AC type) directly from one coil on your stator and also gets a puilse signal from the pulse coil to tell it when to fire, it has nothing to do with the autochoke.
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Post by moorso on Oct 16, 2012 4:40:31 GMT -5
Don't worry about the on/off light switch especialy if it's toast. Modern scooters have the headlights on all the time and yes the brown wire is the typical color to the tail lights and they are on all the time just like the headlights so yes wire the yellow wire out of the R/R to the dimmer switch feed wire which will allow you to dim or brighten your lights. The lights will not come on until you start the scooter and yes the autochoke will run off of AC or DC and can be wired also to the yellow wire or even the white wire form the stator it only needs volatge when the engine is running. The autochoke works by warming up and shutting off the extra fuel that you get on start up. So to answer your question, no the autochoke does not come on with just the key on. The autochoke when it cools opens up to allow extra fuel to the carb and shuts off when the voltage comes on and it heats up and shuts the extra fuel off. The CDI gets it's power (AC type) directly from one coil on your stator and also gets a puilse signal from the pulse coil to tell it when to fire, it has nothing to do with the autochoke. Thanks for the explanation man...that really is a help to me. I might get this thing working yet. The fact the head lights on these scooters run off the magneto explains why they vary in brightness as the engine revs go up I guess, huh? I should be able to test the wiring by just cranking the engine over shouldnt I? I still have the relay wired in that shuts any power to the headlight while the starter is cranking. Cant see any reason to remove that, can you? Its just a relay that is triggered to open the circuit that feeds power to the light as soon as the starter starts turning. R/R - regulator/rectifier? One more question...whats the standard fuse size for these scooters? I've got a 15 amp blade fuse in there now. Sound about right? One more....appears this scoot was wired to require the right brake to be activated before it would start, although when I bought it, it had been bypassed somehow because when you turned the key on, the rear light came on and you could just start it without squeezing the brake. So I was going to ask if you think this brake switch should be eliminated from the circuit, but on second thought, although its another place for a future problem, the brake switch at least will tell you if the brake light is not working if the engine cant be started. Clear as mud. Having said all that, look at the circuit diagram below, at the top where it says front brake switch. Something has to be wrong with this ....it shows a green coming off the switch to a black power feed line if I read it right. Shouldnt the "G" in that switch box actually be a "B" ?  Maybe this ones better:  |
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