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Post by scootercapecod on Sept 22, 2010 7:40:22 GMT -5
I'm always looking for more out of what I have and I noticed that there are 150cc BBKs out for 139QMB motors. I was curious as to what it would take to hop up my 80cc 139QMB motor to handle a 150cc BBK and whether or not it's worth doing. I can do just about anything with these engines but I'd like to know about changing weights for it, will the transmission handle it? I know I'll get tons of power and performance which is what I want! I don't need to go 85MPH but I always want the extra grunt to get around slowpokes in passing zones ;D . Around these parts we unfortunately get some "Sunday drivers" on my way to work! What do you guys think? Let me know...Thanks
Scooter
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Post by Bluefront on Sept 22, 2010 8:14:33 GMT -5
The cases for the 50cc GY6 won't handle the internals of the 150cc GY6......without massive machine work, and certainly not available as a kit.
There are 100cc kits around......still requiring a bunch of work. That seems to the biggest you can go.
An easier solution....cram a 150 GY6 engine into a 50cc frame. That would be an easier mod IMO.
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Post by rocketdog on Sept 22, 2010 8:26:05 GMT -5
^^^^^^^^^^^^ what Blue said. You could also put it on the squeeze <nitrous>. A few folks here have dabbled in it. Ask Enviromoto, for one.
RD
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Post by lshigham on Sept 22, 2010 8:42:04 GMT -5
^^^^^^^^^^^^ what Blue said. You could also put it on the squeeze <nitrous>. A few folks here have dabbled in it. Ask Enviromoto, for one. RD He blew his up with nitrous, not recommended for your daily driver! |
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Post by rocketdog on Sept 22, 2010 8:50:41 GMT -5
OOpps was just a thought. LOL There is that of course. Jeremy leaned a bit to heavy on the bottle huh? I wonder if he was using a forged piston in it? That might be a bit pricey to accomplish. I think I'll still give it a shot one of these days Ish. Bad pun there.
RD
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Post by lshigham on Sept 22, 2010 9:06:38 GMT -5
OOpps was just a thought. LOL There is that of course. Jeremy leaned a bit to heavy on the bottle huh? I wonder if he was using a forged piston in it? That might be a bit pricey to accomplish. I think I'll still give it a shot one of these days Ish. Bad pun there. RD He was using a normal 85cc BBK and a 160 main jet. No fancy forged pistons for us lot! |
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Post by Enviromoto on Sept 22, 2010 10:22:57 GMT -5
^^^^^^^^^^^^ what Blue said. You could also put it on the squeeze <nitrous>. A few folks here have dabbled in it. Ask Enviromoto, for one. RD For the record I blew my motor on purpose. I wanted to see what the threshold was. A 10 shot of nos only cooked the rings a bit and I was able to drive it back to the pits. Bottom end still sounds good and I've been floggin on this for a full season now. Heck the kit when I got it had over 2k on it.  For all you motor heads I am going to be working with Weffo performance to help develop their supercharger. Stay tuned boys. |
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Post by lshigham on Sept 22, 2010 11:08:24 GMT -5
^^^^^^^^^^^^ what Blue said. You could also put it on the squeeze <nitrous>. A few folks here have dabbled in it. Ask Enviromoto, for one. RD For the record I blew my motor on purpose. I wanted to see what the threshold was. A 10 shot of nos only cooked the rings a bit and I was able to drive it back to the pits. Bottom end still sounds good and I've been floggin on this for a full season now. Heck the kit when I got it had over 2k on it. For all you motor heads I am going to be working with Weffo performance to help develop their supercharger. Stay tuned boys. Sounds fun. |
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Post by scootercapecod on Sept 22, 2010 20:01:18 GMT -5
OK guys Just to clarify a bit....My entire engine was replaced with an 80cc. This means the top and bottom ends as well as the CVT, transmission etc... I looked in to a 150cc complete motor/trans setup but was only able to find a top mount version that won't work on my Roketa. If anyone knows of a bottom mount 150cc setup that will drop right in I'd like to know about it! $$$ unimportant as I'm just experimenting with this and want to see what I can get away with on a stock 50 appearing scoot!
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Post by Bluefront on Sept 22, 2010 21:38:32 GMT -5
Yeah the 150gy6 has mounts on the top, and the 50cc mounts on the bottom. This means nothing you'll likely find will "drop right in". If something like that were possible it would be a very popular mod. There are short-case 150s out here....not so many. The scoots have 10" wheels, and don't look any bigger than a real 50cc scooter. Brave people around here get away with riding them like a normal 50cc....no plates. But if you get caught they hit you hard with fines. If you take a real 50cc GY6 scooter and mod the engine with a BBK......you're still riding a scoot registered as a 50, with numbers stamped on the frame to prove it. Uh....probably anyway.  |
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Post by mainepeace on Sept 23, 2010 18:29:24 GMT -5
If you can measure and have a few friends that can weld (or a bit of cash), it's not really THAT hard to weld in mounts for a 150cc. One person can lift an engine and if you strip the bike down to the frame you can easily maneuver it to locate the mount points. I'm actually surprised nobody has put together a "drop in conversion kit" that will relocate the mounting points, possibly even as a complete cage that mounts to our bottom mounts.
Greg
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Post by scootercapecod on Sept 23, 2010 20:52:05 GMT -5
That's something I'll leave to the big GURUs on here to figure out. In the meantime, is it POSSIBLE to do a 150 BBK type of thing? Am I wrong in assuming (knowing full well what that word means LOL) that a GY6 150cc head, cylinder and piston would fit onto an 80cc 139QMB seeing as it's a GY6 clone? I know I'll need to go bigger carb, exhaust etc...but heck I want to have some giddyup and surprise my friends with 250s when I can keep pace!
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Post by mainepeace on Sept 23, 2010 22:08:07 GMT -5
I'm sure *anything* is possible. If you could get forged components, a cast crank, better bearings, machine the casing, somehow fit a 60mm cylinder on the bottom end, you should be able to get a 150. However I'm not sure the cheapo lower end casing can handle the pressure and heat without cracking.
Greg
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Post by scootercapecod on Oct 3, 2010 19:31:09 GMT -5
would it be better to consider a 125 in that case?
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Post by Eat Sleep Scooters on Oct 3, 2010 19:46:26 GMT -5
I looked at a 150 scoot really close the other day and all you would really need to do is find a junk 150 and cut the upper mounts and weld them onto your frame allowing for the swap. The next junk 150 I can get my hands on, I am going to get these mounts and do that swap. It should be plug an play as far as electronics go.
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Post by mainepeace on Oct 3, 2010 19:54:48 GMT -5
>> For all you motor heads I am going to be working with Weffo performance to help develop their supercharger. Stay tuned boys.
A *supercharger* on a scooter? There is no accessory belt, how will you power it?? Are you talking about a turbo? When I get some more money I might think about building a turbo onto a scooter next year. Might be a fun project. It would have to have an EFI conversion though. There are plenty of DIS (distributor-less ignition systems) that can be hooked up to a PC for custom tuning and mapping. However, most of those cost more than the cost of the bike. It is needed for a forced induction scooter though. Lots of money for the project...
Greg
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Post by D-cat on Oct 3, 2010 20:58:49 GMT -5
No he means supercharger.
The Weffo supercharger has been experimented on scooters by mounting it off the cooling fan shaft. There are a couple youtube videos of the tests, but I haven't seen it actually in action.
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Post by scootercapecod on Oct 4, 2010 10:32:30 GMT -5
You guys are unreal with the ideas! But this is what makes it fun. Now my next question is this: As far as I can tell, a 139QMB motor is a GY6 clone is it not? So in that supposition, would the components for a 150cc BBK fit into an 80cc 139QMB lower end OR is there a lot of work involved other than the installation?
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Post by D-cat on Oct 4, 2010 11:07:54 GMT -5
You're talking about a 68 mm wide piston. At very minimum, you're going to end up drilling and tapping new holes for the head bolts, and the locations have to be very accurate. I have no idea what else is involved since I haven't been insane enough to try it (is there even enough room for the cam chain). Anything over 100 cc is going to require some kind of machining.
But is it even worth it? The parts in these smaller engines were designed to handle 72 cc. Going higher means shortening the lifespan of various components (like bearings). Something like failed crank shaft bearings after a few hundred to a couple thousand miles isn't uncommon in the 85 cc + crowd, and you want to put 125-150 cc pressure on these parts? Probably fine if you're racing and replace things like that every week anyway, but I'd think you're better off with an engine designed for it on a daily rider. It is your bike and it is your call. Riding style is a factor in TBF, so if you're not the type to flick to WOT at a traffic light, maybe you will get a decent lifespan out of it, some people do. Just be cautious not to spend all this money and time in upgrading a 50cc engine only to have it blow up on you the first week.
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Post by scootercapecod on Oct 4, 2010 17:11:23 GMT -5
Yeah I can see where it won't be the Ideal thing here.... I just had a curious notion about it. I keep noticing people mentioning a 50cc engine so am I to suppose that the 80cc motor and transmission I got were based on a 50cc? To be clear on this, I totally replaced EVERYTHING with the 80cc 139QMB short case motor and transmission from www.partsforscooters.com. So (I think anyway) that changes some parameters. If I'm wrong I'll eat crow and just take it for what it is, it may not matter much anyway. I'm just trying to squeeze out as much as I can but I may at that point where not much more will do anything grand. |
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Post by D-cat on Oct 4, 2010 20:19:29 GMT -5
The so called 80 was probably actually a 72, and for the record, an engine that comes that way stock should actually be stamped 1(P)47QME. If it's stamped 139QMB, it came stock as a 50 and was upgraded with an 80 kit. The bottom end is the same anyway, all that's different is the piston and bore, so if that's what you mean by based on a 50cc, you are mostly correct (it was actually engineered at 72 cc, so the 50 is based on the 80, to be overly technical). You should have no problem with the parts, as long as anything you got for the and in the cylinder was properly size matched.
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