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Post by Bluefront on Dec 30, 2009 18:14:19 GMT -5
Learned a few things today......trying to figure out a drivability issue (gy6 50cc). My Eagle Sporty has been jerking as the scoot takes off from a stop....when it reaches about 10mph, everything is ok. So I took the belt off to have a look. Here's the problem (probably). This belt has 725 miles on it.....failed already. Not nice. And.....I learned a few other things. You can get the belt off by hand without touching the variator. You only need a strong set of hands to depress the clutch. And.....the starter bendix can be removed without removing the variator. It's a tight squeeze, but it comes out. (mine was bad when I got this scoot used w/300 miles). And......the variator nut is a bear to remove. Mine refuses to loosen even with an air impact (Ingersoll-Rand 1/2" @125lbs pressure on the compressor). I tried several other removal methods...no go. I ended up ordering a special holder tool from Enviromoto. Hope it works. That belt thing bothers me......should have lasted longer. I suggest carrying a new belt in your tool pouch, and enough tools to replace it on the road.
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Post by tortoise on Dec 30, 2009 19:23:44 GMT -5
You can get the belt off by hand without touching the variator. You only need a strong set of hands to depress the clutch. Curious about your technique . . any chance you could post a YouTube video?
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Post by tank50 on Dec 30, 2009 20:45:42 GMT -5
its easy, grab the lip behind the bell with your fingers, rotate it counter clockwise and squeeze it shut with ur palm. u might could use a tine ratchet extension or very GENTLY use a screwdriver while u squeeze. it works very well with two people. one to compress the clutch, and the other to help compress if necassary and to remove/install the belt. (you only have two hands )
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Post by "Big Guy" on Dec 30, 2009 21:12:36 GMT -5
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Post by tortoise on Dec 30, 2009 22:18:00 GMT -5
Unlike the 125/150cc engine video posted above . . the 139QMB 50cc variator drive face diameter is relatively large, and the clearance between the teeth and engine case is relatively small.
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Post by Bluefront on Dec 31, 2009 9:08:14 GMT -5
Here's the deal......the 50cc setup is somewhat different from the bigger engines as noted in that last photo. You depress the clutch with your fingers just like the video. But the belt must be removed over the clutch first, rather than the variator. You can get the belt started until it's tight on the top of the clutch. Then take a 14mm wrench and turn the clutch clockwise. That will pull off the belt the rest of the way. Once the belt is off the clutch pulley, it can be removed from the variator pulley. Be careful not to pinch your fingers on the clutch....once you remove the belt, the clutch spring will push the pulley tighter than when you started. To install the new belt...reverse the procedure. Now I did this whole job without any help.....but having a third hand would make it easier. I'd make a video.....but I've run out of hands. LOL.
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Post by scosgt on Dec 31, 2009 20:11:10 GMT -5
The shuddering on start up is most likely due to the clutch pads being glazed.
The slightly torn belt should of course be replaced, but it is doubtful that causes the shuddering. It stops at 7-10 MPH because at that point the clutch is fully locked up.
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Post by Bluefront on Jan 13, 2010 14:57:03 GMT -5
Update....I think it's fixed. It's still too cold to ride much, and there's still ice and snow around, but I did get to ride a few miles. I installed a new cheap Chinese belt, cleaned the variator and installed 6.5g rollers, replacing the stock 8.5g that were in there. I used a Radio Shack USB digital scale to verify the weights.....works nice. And I replaced the clutch bendix, which usually didn't engage. The variator showed excessive wear on the roller ramps, but this is the first one I've seen in person. The surging from the belt is now gone completely, so I guess that problem was belt related. My starter worked normal the few times I used it. But the big change....the transmission performance. It's 100% better with the lighter weights. This little mod was well worth all the trouble (had trouble getting the nut loose on the variator). Anyway.....the engine now runs at the proper rpms between 18-30mph. No high speed runs yet.....the carb is jetted way too lean for these cold temps (30 and below). That's next on the list......hope it's warm tomorrow.
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Post by diablo on Mar 5, 2010 13:15:41 GMT -5
cool move.........
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sgtp
Junior Dawg
Posts: 14
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Post by sgtp on Apr 24, 2010 19:47:58 GMT -5
Regarding the youtub video posted above: Would it be possible to change out the rollers by removing the belt, but without removing the variator? Has anyone tryed this? I have not had the variator off my scoot to know if its possible.
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Post by Bluefront on Apr 25, 2010 1:55:19 GMT -5
Nope.....after you take the belt off, there's still no way to get to the roller weights without removing the variator nut. It has to come off.
Update to my little problem with the surging.....after it got warmer this spring I rode the Eagle a bunch more (before I sold it). There was still a slight hint of surging at take-off. I took the clutch apart and sanded the shoes and the inside of the clutch bell. That seemed to clear up all hint of surging.....so I guess the original problem was a combination of small issues.
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Post by onewheeldrive on Apr 25, 2010 4:08:56 GMT -5
If you have one of those back plates that screw in, then no, you can't get to the rollers.
However, there should be a way to do that(if and only if you know the variator parts well!) if you have a back plate that isn't screwed into the variator, not that I would recommend or advise that----and I don't think it's necessarily bad advice either, as long as common sense is used.
First, IF you can get the belt off without removing the variator nut, then you should be able to pull the variator towards you---without the back plate, since the belt isn't in the way. If you tilt the scooter away from you the rollers/guides should fall out, if they haven't. Putting them back in would be very tricky, because first you'd have to dislodge the back plate if it's really on there and----you'd literally have to tilt the scooter towards you to the extreme(or have someone do it) while making absolutely sure they are in there properly, along with the guides----while possibly even rotating the variator after each roller. Right.... overall?
It's not for the beginner for sure, but I think it would definitely be do-able if someone was that desperate.
I think it's do-able, but once someone realizes what they have to go through to do it-- why would anyone want to? It would be so much easier to clean and inspect for abnormal wear with it off.
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kiwi
New Puppy Dawg
Posts: 1
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Post by kiwi on Aug 4, 2010 22:51:12 GMT -5
Hey just wondering how you ended up getting the variator nut off? having trouble it off..
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Post by Bluefront on Aug 5, 2010 3:25:37 GMT -5
The variator nut was on there extremely tight to begin with.....my little compressor which maybe goes to 125lbs wouldn't do it, using an expensive 1/2" impact. Then I broke a special holder tool I bought.
Finally I bought a brand new impact socket, and tried the impact gun again....success. The first socket I tried had enough wear that I was losing some torque during the impacts.
I removed the variator once more before I sold the scoot.....the nut came off without problems. I think it was torqued too tight to begin with at the factory.
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Post by capturedbyrobots on Aug 5, 2010 13:28:26 GMT -5
Heat is often the ticket. I plunged cut my vari nut with an angle grinder to get it really hot, then it zipped right off, before that, it took all the impacting I had, and still nothing. My buddies clutch nut was the same way, so he brought out the oxy acetylene torch, hit the nut with a tiny flame for a few seconds, bam....spun right off.
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Post by tortoise on Aug 5, 2010 17:59:06 GMT -5
I broke a special holder tool I bought If that item was a ZTR Variator Tool purchased from Enviromoto . . among the forum host hard-drive-crash deleted posts was an offer to exchange the original aluminum version for a steel replacement, but unknown if that offer has expired.
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