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Post by rxf610 on Aug 5, 2012 14:31:58 GMT -5
Hey all, I have learned SOOOOOOOOOO much from browsing this forum and firstly wanted to say thank you! I got a really good deal on this bike as it was "not running". I tore it does to the bones and have found a few things. The first things I noticed were a few electrical gremlins in the wiring from both the factory / previous owner. I unwired a radio / tape unit and then wire nutted a nasty ground trainwreck. After I finished the "rewire" of the CORE components, I tried cranking, it turns with compression... No spark, and don't think it was getting fuel... So I have two cdi boxes (no idea if good or not) and 2 reg / rect assemblies (first seems good, no reason to check other), 2 coil assemblies (both read continuity on the ground and b/y wire, which seems wrong). While cranking I saw 12v hot always on black (assuming DC CDI), disconnected kill switch from CDI, 0v on sensor (problem), continuity to ground on ground pin (good), 0v out on spark trigger b/y (also bad). So I tear open crank cover... BINGO (or so I thought)... So I see the pulse generator dangling from a collision with plastic shreds EVERYWHERE. I remove the sensor, clear out the gunk, then happen to find a buddy around the road that has a sensor yesterday. I get it, not the same, ugh... It only has one wire, but its the hot lead. Nothing to do last night, so I fab a new sensor, jb weld bracket to bottom, make my own ground wire, solder new red/white sensor, cover inside connections with epoxy. Swiping a magnet over the head produces a bump of current. I mount it close (I would assume a little FURTHER from the flywheel than the correct location). However upon reassembly and testing I am getting low voltage on the sensor wire now. I just still get 0v AC on the black/yellow spark signal. ANY THOUGHTS? Side note, when pulling the vacuum line from the fuel pump, some gas dripped out, then when removing the feedout to the carb, it was dry. I pulled it off and I just think maybe the vacuum pump operation just isn't working... Thank you in advance, Eliott Attachments:
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Post by rxf610 on Aug 5, 2012 21:45:03 GMT -5
Here is my final engineering job. I am HOPING it will hold up / work. I am really frustrated, since I was pretty sure this would get me my elusive spark. Also as an fyi. I have the kill switch rigged and the brake trigger loop closed, but the black/white kill wire never makes its way to the CDI, so neither really matter. It is a 250 helix clone style engine and doesn't have a kickstand switch. Attachments:
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Post by kixome on Aug 5, 2012 21:52:36 GMT -5
i hope so too. When you are testing it you do have the bell over the stator right? Just checking.
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Post by kixome on Aug 5, 2012 21:54:24 GMT -5
Oh next time you need to do this don't use JB weld regular. Either use JB water weld stick(white) or magnum/quik steel stik (black). JB water weld will dry in the presence of water.
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Post by rxf610 on Aug 5, 2012 22:38:24 GMT -5
I had the flywheel and cover in place and the engine cranking when testing, and was getting ~.3v AC when bumping the crank. I let it cure for 24 hours before putting it back on the bike, but thanks for the heads up on the other products!! I am really hoping to get this figured out soon, because I have never heard her run and she is just itching for a good ride!!
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Post by rxf610 on Aug 6, 2012 19:17:58 GMT -5
New update: CDI one is DEFINITELY bad, (thinking two is as well...). I saw a slight bulge in the plastic and cut it open with my angle grinder, then cracked off the back plate. It was FRIED. So if you are getting trigger pulse, hot power (ac for ac cdis or dc for dc cdis, a clean ground and getting ZERO spark, Measure your output AC voltage on crank. If you get zero AT THE CDI, yours is BAD... Image pretty much explains itself. Blew the dang board clear and through... Attachments:
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Post by rxf610 on Aug 6, 2012 19:28:33 GMT -5
UPDATE two: The fuel pump seemed fishy. I broke it open (used a T25 bit and smashed the little safety button down enough on the t25 safety screws holding it together to allow my bit to "fit". Backed right out with some good downward pressure...) The bottom diaphragm was not seated well at all. It has zero holes just the lipping was not well placed, so I am going to use a little vaseline and reassemble. I think the pressure leak should sort itself out. I will keep you posted once I reassemble later. Attachments:
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Post by rxf610 on Aug 13, 2012 0:07:00 GMT -5
What would cause CDI's to blow like that? I have now had it happen again, which leads me to believe something is going on here. I am getting nothing out of the ordinary, except no spark. I read about .3V AC on the trigger wire, 12v constant on hot, good clean ground, kill switch not attached to the CDI. It failed in that SAME location on the CDI. Like the capacitor is discharging internally and frying the system. I am getting a little frustrated since I have still yet to hear her run.
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Post by wile on Aug 13, 2012 0:37:12 GMT -5
Are you sure you have the right CDIs for it. Is your system DC or AC? You may be putting in the wrong CDIs. How many wires are coming from the STATOR? If you put in the wrong CDIs it will fry them.
Wile
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Post by rxf610 on Aug 13, 2012 8:42:21 GMT -5
Are you sure you have the right CDIs for it. Is your system DC or AC? You may be putting in the wrong CDIs. How many wires are coming from the STATOR? If you put in the wrong CDIs it will fry them. Wile Wile, Here is what I know / think I know. Firstly from what I have read is that all 250's are DC fired CDI's. My wiring would indicate that is the case. I have 5 wires coming out of the stator area. 3 of which come directly from the stator (all yellow, the three phases from the stator, head to a plug that has 3 pins, 4 wires jumping out, all going onto the reg/rect, except the fourth jump out yellow that heads to a bullet connector and on to the enricher.) The new trigger I engineered has 2 connections which I soldered to the old harness. A pulse wire and a ground. Grounded the ground wire to the metal housing connected the blue sheathed wire to the pulse trigger. Swiping a magnet across the head produces .3 - .4 v ac, which as far as I can tell is correct. So then CDI wiring heads as following to CDI ( www.chinesescooterreference.com/manual_images/wiring_stator_cdi_coil.jpg except instead of AC coming from stator on R/B, I have a 12v black coming from ignition): Black (12 v hot: 13.5v ignition on, 11.5v cranking since the starter is stealing juice.) the black hot is wired to the 2 pin connector, lower. (no kill wired into CDI for trouble shooting) Red/white trigger pulse to the CDI, B/Y coil on to the coil, and ground. (3 wires into the 4 wire plug, would it matter which side I grounded a la under the coil or under the trigger? It shouldn't right? Should I ground them both?) I am STUMPED. And I do not like electrical, so this is starting to get not so fun. I bought the CDIs from some American warehouse that sells Chinese parts. I talked to them on the phone, told them I needed a CDI unit that was DC and was assured the one I ordered was correct. The plugs fit, but that is all I have to go on. The part is some Shianqigobledegook brand, with the number 1106 stamped on the bottom. Could anyone confirm this is the DC fired version? From what I can tell from visual inspection is the stator looks good. But since it is a dc fired system, even if it were bad, I would still get a spark at least. Any help would be greatly appreciated. |
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Post by rxf610 on Aug 14, 2012 10:27:28 GMT -5
Sorry to keep bumping my own thread, I am just hoping someone has a little guidance. SOOOOOO... My current (<=== get it) thinking From this diagram: 2.bp.blogspot.com/_DzKoXJZ8-2M/TIcr64htXBI/AAAAAAAAARs/IBbUBG2_uEk/s1600/cdi+ku+with+block.JPGI would classify my CDI failures as capacitor internal dischargings based on my repeated fail point. My only thought as to how that would happen (mind you I have zero electrical training...), is the CDI is not well grounded, the capacitor is told to discharge by the pulse, it can't find a way out through the coil (?), and blows itself up (??). Everything I have read, indicates to me the grounds on the cdi boxes are interconnected internally, to paraphrase one of my favorite lines from The Royal Tennebaums "Everybody knows these CDI's grounds interconnect. What this post does, is presupposes they don't". I have to thank the Chinese for making these dang parts cheaper than I can buy the components, but let's assume for a sec that their QC is not A+. I have heard that soldering done to these boards is not up to snuff. So I drew a little diagram. I am getting clean 12v to the black wire, but I am going to ADD a direct ground next to the already used ground for the pickup coil. I may just straight line the CDI from the black ignition, so there is no interference either. Thoughts? Attachments:
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Post by wile on Aug 14, 2012 12:21:49 GMT -5
RXF
I pmed you
Wile
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