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Post by Techie_610 on May 22, 2012 8:45:00 GMT -5
Over the weekend, I decided I was going to change weights to 1 gram heavier. I had 12g sliders, but it came with 14.5 rollers stock. The lighter sliders gave me faster accel., lower top end, but more up-hill power. Also, being sliders, they seemed to respond quicker.
Anyways, I wanted to put in 13g. I didnt have any. I have done aternating weight rollers before (such as 3 15g with 3 13g) and gotten middle sizes.
Well, I did that, but with 12g sliders and 14.5g rollers.
Seemed to run pretty awesome. Infact, my top speed was back to where it was with the 14.5gs, but I take off like the 12g sliders did. Just a hair slower(not enough to care).
The big difference is in where the throttle position is at in relation to the RPMs. It is a very different, unique responce. Almost as if at half throttle I hit a 2nd gear.
Has anyone else done this before? Does anyone preffer rollers over sliders? I preffer sliders, but this is just an experiment.
I am using the stock 109mm variator, will be going to the Dual Ramp and 115mm face.
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Post by ventostu on May 22, 2012 11:30:25 GMT -5
So you have ever a combo of sliders and rollers
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Post by Techie_610 on May 22, 2012 12:12:52 GMT -5
Yes. Now I have 12g sliders mixed with my 14.5g rollers. And she runs great.  |
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Post by orphansoul on May 22, 2012 13:01:20 GMT -5
I have always heard not to mix and match rollers with sliders....not sure the reasoning though.
If it works for you, thats good!
I am sure if it is a really bad idea, someone will come down and let you know.
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Post by Techie_610 on May 22, 2012 14:48:25 GMT -5
Ive not personally seen not to do it. I put them in, spun the assmbly at a low speed, and watched it carefully. The Sliders and Rollers both have the same circular profile, so the back plate isnt being raised by one, giving the other sloppy movement... Im running it for about 100 miles, then taking it apart to see if they wore badly. orphansoul: Thats a big list in your signature. You have a pic/vid of the work? I would really like to see it. |
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Post by orphansoul on May 22, 2012 14:57:48 GMT -5
I've seen many people on here say not to. I stick to one or the other, switching to sliders this weekend so I can get the extra gram heavier without changing my rpms. Actually, I posted some pics yesterday, along with all the info you could ever want: scootdawg.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=talk&action=display&thread=50338I don't have any videos. I'm not sure what you would want a video of, all I could probably shoot is just it on the stand. |
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Post by Techie_610 on May 22, 2012 16:49:27 GMT -5
I've seen many people on here say not to. I stick to one or the other, switching to sliders this weekend so I can get the extra gram heavier without changing my rpms. Actually, I posted some pics yesterday, along with all the info you could ever want: scootdawg.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=talk&action=display&thread=50338I don't have any videos. I'm not sure what you would want a video of, all I could probably shoot is just it on the stand. Thats one hot scoot!  |
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Post by orphansoul on May 22, 2012 16:59:09 GMT -5
I've seen many people on here say not to. I stick to one or the other, switching to sliders this weekend so I can get the extra gram heavier without changing my rpms. Actually, I posted some pics yesterday, along with all the info you could ever want: scootdawg.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=talk&action=display&thread=50338I don't have any videos. I'm not sure what you would want a video of, all I could probably shoot is just it on the stand. Thats one hot scoot! Thanks! Still hammering some of the quirks out. |
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Post by Techie_610 on May 23, 2012 9:36:16 GMT -5
Well, I put another 20+/- miles on with the weight combo. Still running great, no funny noises, or bogging at all. Pulling up slight inclines doesnt effect me. I went up a hill, about a 30 degree angle for almost a half mile, from a dead stop and by the top I was at 42-45 mph. Not to bad for this bike. |
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Post by orphansoul on May 23, 2012 12:34:05 GMT -5
Your average comes out to 13.25g...but sliders affect rpms less than rollers...
You might try some 14g sliders. Its running good now, but I bet having all sliders would make it run a little bit better, you could always get some 15g sliders, try all 15s...and if you don't like it mix it with your 12g sliders for about the same net weight.
Its hard to tell you exactly which weight to get...since you mixed them.
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Post by Techie_610 on May 23, 2012 20:27:50 GMT -5
Im trying the different weights I have now, before I buy anymore. The Slider/Roller combo was actually intended for playing and curiosity reasons. Still doing good. Put another 10 miles on. No bogging or funnyness. Hopefully going to open it up and inspect tomorrow. |
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Post by orphansoul on May 23, 2012 21:07:42 GMT -5
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Post by Techie_610 on May 24, 2012 9:09:32 GMT -5
This is my thought on it. Still playing with different sizes of each though.
FROM ZUMAFORUMS.NET
===================
I'm kinda thinking you can.
Sliders are design to open the vario a little more.
If you use a heavier roller weight/lighter slider weight combo - it'll probably work. You want to go with a lighter slider weight so it kicks in at higher speed. Since sliders are designed to open the vario a little more than rollers, there "should" be an improvement in top-end once the lighter sliders run up the ramp.
Performance with this kind of setup would probably be better with the TST vario because of the ramp design. S = heavier roller weight for low to mid, L = lighter slider weight for mid to top-end.
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Post by orphansoul on May 24, 2012 9:22:24 GMT -5
Thats the effect you would get with the dual ramp I think. I'm not sure it works out so well with the single ramp.
I didn't know they made a dual ramp variator. Seems interesting if it actually works like it says.
The one I saw was 110 dollars, which is almost 3x a normal performance variator, so unless its way better I am not sure I would go to it.
I'm not sure if anyone on here has experience with them or not. Seems like a newer product. Would definitely work well on my bike if it does.
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Post by Techie_610 on May 24, 2012 9:33:18 GMT -5
There is a dual ramp variator made by KidnMe. Thats the one Im getting. Im not sure if it will be dumbfoundingly awesome, but I sure cant wait to try it. The way its built, and the way I have it imagened, I think it will do great in my location. (Lots of ups and downs and curves) |
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Post by orphansoul on May 24, 2012 10:47:08 GMT -5
Well, the good thing its supposed to do, is have a low end weight and a top end weight. So you can have good take off AND good top end.
Sounds a little too good to me, and if it worked amazing I think other manufacturers would be knocking it off.
I'm curious to see how it turns out. I am not sure I am willing to put up the money to test it myself.
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Post by Techie_610 on May 24, 2012 12:46:30 GMT -5
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Post by rockynv on May 24, 2012 22:50:01 GMT -5
I had similar results with the Hoca Variator from Part for Scooters using the stock 12 gram rollers and the machined drive face. It cost far less than $100. Awsome accelleration and down gearing and a more solid 65 mph on a Lance Vintage 150 which has a 52 mph published top speed.
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Post by Techie_610 on May 25, 2012 9:10:41 GMT -5
My bike must be different in a big way, because I see a lot of people using 12g weights, but my bike doesnt run worth a dime with 12gs. Wont go past 40, but would pull a hill like an ox! lol
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Post by photowiz on Jun 17, 2012 21:14:30 GMT -5
I'm running 3 -14's and 3-16's with great luch My acceletation is really good, at around 50 or 7000 rpm, the heaver weights kick in and the scoot drops 1000, or 1500 RPM, like shifting to overdrive. I'm thinking of trying 14/18 gm weights. I love the feeling when it downshifts and I am going 50 to 60 mph.
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Post by mainepeace on Jun 18, 2012 9:27:30 GMT -5
Just watch the rollers as those 3 will wear out faster as now they are taking the brunt of the force. The sliders slide out more slowly than the rollers anyway, and the lighter sliders will require even more RPM's to slide out, so the rollers are doing most of the work in closing the variator. When they top out the sliders finally arrive and give a bit more on top so you get the better top end. Just watch the rollers for wear.
Greg
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Post by Techie_610 on Jul 10, 2012 8:39:30 GMT -5
Well, I FINALLY got found some time to open my CVT cover and pull out my weights. ;D Here are my 14.5 Rollers and 12.5 Sliders. They wore very evenly, to my suprise. Of course, the Sliders dont wear like the Rollers... But this was after 250+ miles. Mostly city, and a lot of on off. Then around 200mi I did a 35mi run, mostly at WOT.  I am surprised at how good it ran with the Slider/Roller combo. And even more at how great they looked after the running.  Im happy with the 14.5's, but Im changing them to 17's for highier top speed. Going to run it for another 250+ miles, checking every 100mi. If anyone is courious about doing the weight mix, as of right now, I see some pretty cool riding response results, and no problems in the CVT. |
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Post by Techie_610 on Jul 11, 2012 12:49:44 GMT -5
Well, seems to be reacting good. The belt fills the Drive Face more, as it should, and it appears to launch good. However, its been raining for 3 days straight, so no riding for me.  |
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Post by greywolf187 on Jul 11, 2012 21:53:01 GMT -5
I need to keep this in mind due to loseing my top end changeing my stock rollers to 12g sliders and then pitching the stock worn out rollers.
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Post by Techie_610 on Jul 13, 2012 11:32:00 GMT -5
What weight are your stock Rollers?
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Post by greywolf187 on Jul 13, 2012 20:52:35 GMT -5
don't know, that's the bad part. I never do something like that but for some reason I trashed that. I'm the kind that hoards everything. I do know that they were the stock ones from a Lance Duke 150cc but that's all I know. if you got a clue one what they may have been let me know please. best guess would be good to.
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Post by Techie_610 on Jul 14, 2012 8:03:07 GMT -5
They could be anything from 12-17... Take them to the USPS, they have a small scale that may be light enough. You may have to put them all on, and divide. If you want faster take off but lower top end, go lighter. Again, I highly recommend Slider weights. I would say they were 14g if the bike was a 09 or newer, 16-17 if older.
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Post by skuttadawg on Dec 29, 2012 0:58:26 GMT -5
My Echarm came with 12g rollers and I switched to 12g DRP sliders takeoff was a hair less , better climb in acceleration and gained 5 MPH with top speed of 75 MPH . Had a state trooper clock me at 72MPH
With heavier weights you may want to upgrade the clutch springs and contra spring
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Post by rockynv on Dec 29, 2012 7:24:27 GMT -5
The trade off when you start putting a stiffer contra spring in the clutch to offset heavier weights is increased belt heat and wear. The variator will need to squeeze the belt harder to drive the belt out on the drive faces and pull the clutch sheeves open to drop the belt in the clutch/driven sheeves. It is a balancing act. Unless you have upped HP significantly over stock you usually do not have to do anything drastic with the contra.
You can also shorten the lifespan of the faces of both sheeves due to the increased pressure on the sides of the belt and extra tension. The bearings on the clutch shaft inside the gearcase and in the clutch itself will also be subjected to a bit more wear and tear making the quality of gear lube and grease used more critical.
When these areas start to get extended wear you may notice a more buzzy feel in the footboards along with exhaust cracking and possibly failures of the rear fender mounts along with the air box coming unseated from time to time.
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