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Post by thall on Jan 31, 2011 15:08:12 GMT -5
Hey guys. I'm new to the scooter world. Purchased a used 150 Avanti and have had trouble with cold start. I replaced the spark plug and took the carb off and cleaned it up thinking that this could be the problem. Of course I was working in a warm shop and after reassembly the thing started right up and ran great. Thought I had solved the problem.
The next morning after sitting in a 45 degree garage, would not start, just simply rolled over as if no fuel or no fire.
This is where it gets crazy. I warmed up the shop and didn't do anything really to change anything and the thing cranked right up and ran great. Any suggestions???
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Post by Bong on Jan 31, 2011 15:33:21 GMT -5
How old is the battery? Does it kick-start in the cold? Have you adjusted the valves? Or it could be the auto choke.
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Post by sprocket on Jan 31, 2011 15:52:24 GMT -5
The enrichers are simply not RICH enough in cold weather starting.
Find the air intake on your air box. Cover it with your hand to prevent air flow. Crank the starter a couple of times. Remove you hand, and try and start the engine...
Bong is right about the battery. You may want to consider putting a 25amp hour battery under the seat and hooking it into the system. Some people hard wire these, others just use the larger battery in winter and hook it in parallel with the stock battery...
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Post by edfr on Jan 31, 2011 16:19:48 GMT -5
Check your enricher, take it off and if you see a spring between the rubber holder and the plunger if its Extended then it is not working it should be Retracted. If its working and the carb is tuned correctly and the battery turns the motor over it will start on a few revolutions of the Crank. Its single digits here and mine will fire on the first push of the starter button and the rpms will climb to 1900-2000, as it warms up the idle comes back down to 1500.
I don't understand why people just throw parts at something instead of fixing the problem and or diagnois what the problem is. Sure a more powerful battery will probably help but all your doing is disguising the real problem.
Lefty
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Post by thall on Jan 31, 2011 17:55:26 GMT -5
The battery was replaced just before I bought it and I have kept a charger on it and it sounds strong. I'm not sure where the enricher is located. Is that the diaphragm located on the top of the carb? Is that the plunger that goes inside the throat of the carb?
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Post by edfr on Jan 31, 2011 18:10:02 GMT -5
Here is where your enricher is: It is held down by two little screws on the top of it Not the bigger ones on the side of the Carb. Take it off WHEN THE ENGINE IS COLD then you will see the Plunger and a needle on the end of it. If you see a spring between the Plunger and Rubber part it is NOT working it is stuck in the EXTENDED position. Lefty  |
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Post by thall on Jan 31, 2011 18:20:40 GMT -5
Here's a view I found in these forums Attachments:
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Post by thall on Jan 31, 2011 18:24:18 GMT -5
Okay it's the part on the side of the carb that is labeled "Automatic choke"
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Post by edfr on Jan 31, 2011 18:26:17 GMT -5
WHAT!! I just put up a picture of it. IT SAYS AUTOMATIC CHOKE, that is the Big Black Sucker you see. There are two little screws holding the Black Choke down with a Big C clamp that goes in a groove in the Rubber part of the Enricher.
Lefty
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Post by thall on Jan 31, 2011 18:27:58 GMT -5
Great, I'll take a look at it
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Post by edfr on Jan 31, 2011 18:31:06 GMT -5
Great Thall,
Remember if you see a spring between the Rubber Part and the Plunger which has a needle on the end of it IT IS NOT WORKING, and that would cause your Hard Starting when it is Cold.
Lefty
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Post by thall on Jan 31, 2011 18:34:23 GMT -5
Thanks for your help. Any advice on where to purchase the part if it needs replacing?
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Post by edfr on Jan 31, 2011 18:35:51 GMT -5
Thall, Just about any dealer on top of the page will have them, they usually run around $15.00. Also check out Ebay its a very common part so you will not have any problem finding one. Just look for the cheapest price and shipping. Lefty Here is one and he shops really fast scroll down the page and you will the the Automatic Choke(ENRICHER): www.scrappydogscooters.com/COMMON_PARTS.html |
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Post by thall on Jan 31, 2011 19:40:14 GMT -5
Hey edfr, I took the enricher off and I do not see a spring you mentioned "extending past the rubber seat
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Post by thall on Jan 31, 2011 19:42:39 GMT -5
Here's the photo Attachments:
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Post by thall on Jan 31, 2011 19:46:27 GMT -5
There is a spring on the inside and I can depress both the large plunger and the smaller needle
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Post by thall on Jan 31, 2011 19:58:41 GMT -5
I can depress this thing about a 1/4 of an inch and it returns back to the extended position. I have to look inside the valve to see a large spring in what I would call the interior wall of the valve
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Post by edfr on Jan 31, 2011 20:00:31 GMT -5
Thall,
It looks GOOD, that is the way it should be when RETRACTED.
You just saved yourself money by not ordering an Enricher.
What that means is your enricher(choke) is actually feeding extra fuel when Cold(if it is RETRACTED) when you pulled it out.
So now we move onto the Air/Fuel Mixture that may be causing your hard starts. In the Picture you see the Screw that says Air/Fuel Ratio, After you put the Choke back on and the engine is nice and warm and the idle has come down.
What we want to do is GET the Highest IDLE possible out of the Air/Fuel Mixture when adjusting it. So if your scoot has a tach it will be much easier IF it does not have a Tach then it will be up to you hearing the IDLE(rpms) go up while you adjust the Air/Fuel Mixture.
ENGINE NICE AND WARM:
A. Turn the Air/Fuel Mixture 1/4 COUNTER CLOCKWISE and wait 10-15 seconds to allow the engine to catch up with the new setting.
*** IF ON THE FIRST 1/4 TURN COUNTER CLOCKWISE the IDLE GOES DOWN Then Turn it back the 1/4 turn AND GO TO B.***
1. If the Idle goes up Repeat A above.
a. If the Idle stays the same or appears to go down a little, Turn the Screw back 1/8 half of the 1/4 turn on your last adjustment, go to B.
B. Turn the Air/Fuel Mixture 1/4 CLOCKWISE and wait 10-15 seconds to allow the engine to catch up with the new setting.
1. If the Idle goes up Repeat B above.
a. If the Idle stays the same or appears to go down a little, Turn the Screw back 1/8 half of the 1/4 turn on your last adjustment, go to C.
C. Now Adjust your IDLE SPEED SCREW the one with the Spring on the side of the Throttle Cable and get the IDLE DOWN to where your Rear Wheel Just wants to Turn.
Now hopefully all is set, give the Throttle a QUICK Turn and Let go, there should be NO hesitation or bogging the engine should rev up and come back down to the idle you set.
You should get a nice VROOOOOOOOOOMMM.
Lefty
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Post by thall on Jan 31, 2011 20:11:57 GMT -5
When I had it running Saturday I did the air/mixture measure and actually did get a good response so I believe I have that covered
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Post by thall on Jan 31, 2011 20:12:36 GMT -5
Should I be able to depress the enricher plunger
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Post by edfr on Jan 31, 2011 20:14:35 GMT -5
Thall,
Yes it will depress in about 1/4 or so, your enricher is working when COLD. So just put it back on and lets adjust your Air/Fuel mixture that i mentioned above.
Lefty
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Post by thall on Jan 31, 2011 20:17:41 GMT -5
I will do
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Post by thall on Jan 31, 2011 20:38:55 GMT -5
well it's back to the same problem just wont start
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Post by edfr on Jan 31, 2011 20:45:53 GMT -5
Question when you were turning the Air/Fuel Mixture Did it change the RPMS or NOT?
Does it start if you open the throttle a little?
Lefty
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Post by thall on Jan 31, 2011 20:46:51 GMT -5
I know I"m getting fuel because now it's flooded  |
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Post by thall on Jan 31, 2011 20:47:36 GMT -5
No it acts just like it is getting no fire
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Post by thall on Jan 31, 2011 20:54:07 GMT -5
You know edfr, when I got this thing to run yesterday, it was when I warmed up my garage. What's up with that?
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Post by edfr on Jan 31, 2011 20:56:33 GMT -5
Thall,
Wait a minute, if it did not start how did you adjust the Air/Fuel Mixture? That has to be adjusted when its running and the ENGINE is nice and hot.
If its Flooded have you checked if your getting a good Spark from the Spark Plug?
Do you have an extra Spark Plug, If you do you can take the BOOT off the one that is on the engine off the Spark Plug and Put in the Spare Spark Plug and and hold it against the Engine and CRANK it, and tell us what color the Sparks are.
If you don't have a Spare Spark Plug then take the Plug out and hold it against the engine and crank it and let us know what color it is Sparking. You could have a weak Spark and not igniting the fuel when cold. Once it gets warm a weak spark will ignite the fuel much easier.
Lefty
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Post by thall on Jan 31, 2011 21:05:58 GMT -5
I will try that. Just FYI, I had it running this past weekend when I replaced the spark plug with a new one and when I took the carb off and cleaned it up. Ran great, but it would not start today when cold. It hasnt started since Sunday. I will take out the plug and get back with you on the spark color
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Post by thall on Jan 31, 2011 21:13:19 GMT -5
Took the plug out and grounded it against the front of the engine and turned it over and got no fire
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