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Post by riverrat on Feb 13, 2010 16:37:17 GMT -5
Chinese Scooter Diary Feb. 7, 2010 After quite a bit of research, and against the advice of many on the Internet, I have taken the plunge and ordered a Chinese scooter from an online company. My wife and I wanted an easy way to get around on camping trips, and this was our choice over pulling a car behind our small RV. We considered many different scooters including new ones online, used ones on Craig’s List, news ones at local dealers, and even the high-quality Hondas and Vespas at dealers. The average prices were as follows: 4,500.00 + tax for Hondas at the local dealer 5,300.00 + tax for Vespas at the local dealer 1,200.00 + tax for new generic Chinese brands at local dealers 1,000.00 + shipping for new generic Chinese brands on the Internet 800.00 + shipping for used generic Chinese brands on Craig’s list I am no mechanic, but I can do most of my own work on cars and generally fix things that are broken. Now, even though we had read all the horror stories about things falling off Chinese scooters and their generally low quality, we decided that we could replace a Chinese model 7 or 8 times for the price of a Vespa. Though it comes with a 30 day warranty, I accept up front that we will probably get no satisfaction from the dealer and that I will probably have to replace the battery and all the lights and hoses. In the end, we found a new Longbo Adventure 150cc for $705.00 with no tax and no shipping from Better Price Scooters. They have the same address as the importer for these scooters, so I assume they are the same company. We ordered the scooter on Feb. 3, 2010, and we await its being shipped. In the meantime, I have done much research on the best way to break in the GY6 engine, but basically all the info I can find is to change the oil often and drive it extremely slow for several hundred miles. I will try to update this periodically to document our experience and decide if it was the best investment. |
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Post by riverrat on Feb 13, 2010 18:41:44 GMT -5
February 10, 2010 Our scooter arrived yesterday, Feb. 9, 2010 on a big truck. I was at work, and my wife helped the driver get it off the truck, on to the liftgate, and into our garage. I was surprised that the driver from Old Dominion Freight Lines cheerfully agreed to bring it into the garage. I removed the box and was pleased to see the scooter uncrated with the wheels on and tied down to a cardboard pallet. It didn’t have a scratch on it, and it was exactly as it had been pictured on the seller’s website. I was also pleased to find the certificate of origin in an envelope taped to the outside of the box. Time to get to work. I printed The Big Guy's Guide to prepping Chinese scooters that instructed new owners to completely disassemble the body of the scooter and put silicone on every speed nut and on all the electrical connectors. After taking a good look at those parts, I decided not to heed that advice. The fit and finish of the Longbo scooter looks great to me, and the electrical connectors were as good as those on most cars or quality bikes. Anyway, we don’t plan to ride it in the rain. I did do the rest of the prep work advised in The Big Guy's Guide including draining all the engine oil and transmission gear oil, removing all the cheap gas lines, putting air in the tires, and tightening every bolt, nut, and screw I could find. The only thing notable was that there were a few metal shavings in the engine oil. From my reading, that seems to be normal, but I was glad to get them out of the motor before starting it. The only real assembly for me was to attach the mirrors and the trunk and pour acid in the battery and charge it. The mirrors were fairly easy, but that generic trunk mount was a pain. Total time to unbox, assemble, drain fluids, tighten bolts, remove lines, fill and charge battery, clean up, and haul the box to the street – 7 hours. After reading many different guides for breaking in a Chinese GY6, I will be following the following schedule: After changing Chinese oil before starting the first time- 50 miles at 25 mph max on 10 W-30, then change oil- 50-100 miles - 35 mph on 5 W-30, then change oil- 100-350 miles at 45 mph, then change oil- 350-1000 miles at 55 mph, then change oil- At 1000 miles adjust valves and try maximum speed Thereafter, change oil every 1000 miles Today, Feb. 10, I stopped by Advance Auto Parts and picked up a quart of Valvoline 10-W 30, a quart of gear oil, new gas lines and screw clamps, and a tube of Loctite. My wife called the insurance office and added the scooter to our policy – 75 bucks for the entire year. Sure wish the car was that cheap. When I got home from work, I replaced the gas lines, poured in ¾ of a quart of oil, filled the gearbox with oil, installed the battery, and removed the bolts holding the exhaust to the head. They were barely hand tight. I applied some Loctite, added lock washers, and torqued them fairly tight. I’m still afraid to apply too much torque to anything on this bike. Ready to ride. Though it was around 35 degrees outside and dark, I really wanted to hear this baby run, so I pushed it out of the garage and called the wife to listen. I followed the advice of many to use the kick starter and began to kick – and kick – and kick. OK, something’s gotta be wrong here. It was at about that time that I remembered I have to hold the brake to start it up. Stop laughing – Brake on, another kick, fire! It didn’t run, but it did try. A few more kicks, and it was sputtering. It would be too kind to say it ran. Over and over, the little motor would crank, run a little, and stall. After about ten minutes, the wife was freezing and had heard enough. She abandoned me. As the engine warmed by running longer each time, I was finally able to keep it running. OK, again you could hardly call it running. There was lots of popping, choking, and sputtering with an occasional burst of power, but every light and gauge was working. One happy spot. When the engine would finally run well enough to spin the back wheel pretty fast on the stand, I set out to adjust the carb. By then, I had decided that must be the problem. Not much luck, but it did finally run well enough for me to take a very cold spin around the block – about a mile. Total assembly time – 2 hours. Total time cranking and adjusting – 2 hours. Not happy that this thing isn’t running, but gotta get some sleep. RR |
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Post by riverrat on Feb 13, 2010 19:10:53 GMT -5
February 11, 2010
When I got home on Thursday, Feb. 11, I was still annoyed that the scooter didn’t run well right out of the box, and I cranked it up in the driveway again. Surprisingly, it started right up using the electric starter and seemed to be running smoother. It never choked down, and I did some tweaking to the air/fuel mixture until it was actually running pretty well. I decided to let it rest.
February 12, 2010
After an early morning dentist appointment, I stopped by the DMV with my insurance info and certificate of origin ready to get a license plate. What a doofus. I completely forgot that property taxes have to be paid before they will issue a tag, plus the nice lady informed me that I would have to pay S. C. sales tax on that bike since I bought it out of state. That’s when she also informed me that she needed to see a bill of sale to calculate that tax; she’s not taking my word for the purchase price.
Back to the house to get the bill of sale and over to the tax office to pay the property taxes, 33 dollars. Finally, I get back to the DMV with all my info, wait my hour listening for my number through the sounds of screaming babies, and pay $15 for a title, $10 for a tag, and $35 sales tax. Four hours after the ordeal began, I arrived home, tag in hand.
That evening, I went out to put the tag on the brand new, completely legal scooter and I realized that the cheesy, Chinese license plate bracket has the wrong bolt pattern. It’s for a full-sized car tag. I suppose they use the same bracket for mopeds, but the tag is the small, motorcycle size. The cheap bracket just didn’t seem worth modifying, so I drilled holes in the fender to match the license plate. Neat and clean – I even removed the little reflectors from the bracket and mounted them on the sides of the fender. Still legal. Are you listening, Deputy Dawg?
February 13, 2010
Last night, a rare 4 inches of snow for South Carolina. My plans to actually drive that scooter slipped away. Then, around 1:00, the temp is above 40 degrees, most of the snow has melted, and the streets are dry. I pushed the scooter out on the driveway and fired it up. Smooth – One last adjustment to the air/fuel mixture, bundle up good, and I’m off. Two things become immediately apparent: I still have work to do on the carburetor, and there are none of the rattles I read about on the blogs. The only thing rattling is the trunk where its lid meets the bottom part. 2 miles, and I return home for a minor carb adjustment. I can see this is going to be a trial and error thing. Back on the road – That rattling trunk is driving me crazy. When I get back home, I take a close look at the trunk and realize it’s just hard plastic to plastic with no gasket. Hmmm, I have gasket material now. I got that Chinese fuel line out of the trash, cut it into long strips, and pressed it into the area where the trunk halves meet. No more rattles. Another quarter turn on the air/fuel screw, and I’m off again.
The engine is really running smoothly, and I know I’m getting very close with the air/fuel mix. I wish I didn’t have to go back to the house to get the screwdriver. Doofus – Back to the house, another quarter turn, this time the screwdriver is in my back pocket, and I’m off for a longer trip. A couple more adjustments to the carburetor, and the motor is running perfectly. As I cruise out towards Wal-Mart, I begin to wonder about the voices from the cars behind me. Is that laughing because the scooter’s big eyes make it look like a red click beetle? No, that’s cussing because I am cruising at 25 mph on the little country road going to Wal-Mart. Screw you, people. I’m breaking this scooter in right, and I’m going to have it done before we leave for our trip to Tybee Island for Spring Break.
Overall, I’m very happy with the scooter. The only issue that concerns me is the front end seems to be loose, and it affects the handling. I’m not sure if it’s just a quirk of this being a cheap Chinese scooter or if something needs to be tightened. Maybe a bushing is missing??? I will find out soon. Scooter has 17 miles on it, and my hands are numb. Calling it a night. RR
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Post by einism on Feb 14, 2010 1:12:24 GMT -5
try some weatherstripping to get rid of the noise from the top box
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Post by speedracer12 on Feb 14, 2010 10:56:37 GMT -5
Riverrat, where do live in SC? We had the same snow. I sure had a lot less problems then you are having with getting the scooter started. I was told to use the kick start 4 times then use the electric starter. Off it went and I was able to take it for a ride around the neighborhood.
Did you change the plug? Good luck and keep us posted. SC doesn't have a helmet law, and I hope you are smart enough to use one. I had the helmet a week before my scooter was delivered.
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Post by rocketdog on Feb 14, 2010 18:20:15 GMT -5
It might just be the front tire out of balance riverat. My cheap 150 tire was horrid. A bag of dynabeads will help a lot. Even with the cheap tires. Nice write up btw.
RD
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Post by riverrat on Feb 15, 2010 19:59:51 GMT -5
February 15, 2010
Fifty miles on the new scooter. I succeeded in resisting the urge to exceed 25 mph for fifty miles. I found an old road going out of town where I was in no one’s way and ran up and down the hills until she hit 50 miles. Just a note, after reading about many scooters’ odometers registering kilometers even though the gauge read miles, I decided to check mine out. It is right with the car registering miles. The little motor again clicked off the miles without a hiccup, and I brought her home. The only problems I noticed on the trip were the issue with the front end feeling loose, and a screw fell out of the plastic fairing on the front. Luckily, it fell on the floorboard, and I found it.
When I got home, I drained the oil. Found just a few small metal shavings this time that appeared to be from the manufacturing process and not from engine wear. I filled it up (this time with Valvoline 5-W 30 conventional) and also removed the spark plug to have a look. The plug actually looked great, but I’m taking the advice of many to get the NGK equivalent ASAP.
While one screw was already out of the front fairing, I went ahead and removed the thing to get a good look at the steering head and try to see why the front end seemed so loose. Dang, the ring nut wasn’t even snug. I mean it wasn’t even hand tight. It was just there. I tightened it down and tightened the lock nut on it. Loose front end is fixed. I guess this is the kind of thing I expected from the Chinese scooter. You get what you pay for, and I chose not to buy a Honda.
So, at fifty miles, I remain overall happy with the purchase of the Chinese scooter. The engine is running great, it doesn’t smoke, and it seems dependable. The seat isn’t so great, but I don’t plan on a 100 mile cruise.
Speedracer, We live in Clemson. Not sure how smart I am, but after 40 years of riding, I doubt I will be wearing a helmet. It's just a preference.
RR
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Post by ootscoot on Feb 15, 2010 21:19:27 GMT -5
Great write up riverrat! Brought back many memories of my 1st scooter. - except the helmet part. After 40 years of riding, I found my ears get cold without it - my preference. Good luck to you with the scoot and keep us posted !
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Post by turtle8 on Feb 16, 2010 15:48:46 GMT -5
riverrat: congrats from Rock Hill, SC.
I bought my first scooter last October.
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Post by gtbike on Feb 16, 2010 19:02:41 GMT -5
If your front end feels loose the other thing to check is your fork bearings. Many here have reported that the bearings on their front forks were bone dry or grease free.
Also, in my case the upper nut on the top of my fork was loose and allowing the steerer and fork to wiggle and feel very scary.
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Post by anhoa on Feb 17, 2010 14:34:39 GMT -5
Great write up there!....I don't know what's wrong with my kick-starter. Tried over 100+ kicks but not able to start the engine once so I gave up. I guess if I keep continue to kick, my leg would fall off before the kick lever. I managed to put 81xx miles on the OEM tires and on a second battery, rollers, Regulator/Rectifier, and a Gates belt.
Anhoa
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Post by riverrat on Feb 21, 2010 20:57:05 GMT -5
February 21, 2010 Checking in at 100 miles. I spent the weekend riding, and the scoot now has 135 miles. I drained the oil again at 100 miles and found no metal shards this time. I am grateful for The Big Guy's Guide for new scooters. I followed most of it, and I’m wishing I would have greased the front fork bearings. I will get to that soon. I replaced the oil at 100 miles again with Valvoline 5-W 30 Premium Conventional, and I replaced the Chinese spark plug with the NGK CR7HSA. A few observations from 50 to 100 miles: 1. Tightening the ring nut on the steering head completely fixed the front end problems. The scooter now feels solid, handles well, and I can use the front brake with confidence. 2. A scooter at 35 mph holds up much less traffic than one at 25 mph. 3. Riding at 60° this weekend was much more fun than riding at 40° last weekend with snow still on the ground. 4. I enjoyed the new helmet on my rides at 60°. I know I will have to lose it when the temp is 90°. I just can’t stand for my head to sweat. Still following my break-in plan, I increased the speed to 45 mph after 100 miles. The motor still performs perfectly and feels strong. Since everyone recommended taking it easy on the scoot for as long as possible, I have thus far ridden solo, so the scooter has been burdened with only my 170 lbs. So far, the wife seems only slightly interested in it, and she still considers it too cold to ride. I have thought all along that the speedometer seemed about right, but I still wanted to check it. Since I am now at 45 mph in the break in period, I headed down the local 4-lane with mile markers. This is not an interstate, but it is interstate style with exits and 65 mph speed limit. Needless to say, I was again holding up traffic. I am disappointed in the speedometer. I held it on exactly 45 for a measured mile, and it took 94 seconds to run that mile. That calculates to 38.3 mph. I hope I counted the seconds wrong, and it was really 84 seconds to run the mile. That would be 42.86 mph. I can live with it being off by two mph but not seven. I also would like to send out a big dawg bone to Motorcycle Superstore for their great prices and service. We ordered two helmets, a spark plug, and some stickers from them, and they sent everything in three days. The helmets came from Oregon to South Carolina. They fit great and look great. Their price was much less than our local Honda dealer, and we paid no tax and got free shipping. At 135 miles, I remain happy with my $705 Chinese scooter. See you for the next oil change at 350 miles. RR  |
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Post by tm4n69 on Feb 21, 2010 23:04:01 GMT -5
good deal , i know how you feel about the weather , im in east tn , about an hour from nc , im over it , i went for a nice ride today , and like you i wanted something cheap and fun , have a safe 1 T
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Post by hilldude on Feb 24, 2010 19:06:55 GMT -5
I I have the Longbo adventure 150, the only problems I have had, the head lights burnt out about the second day, and had to tighten the nut on the front forks.I have about 350 mi on it. I don't take the scooter camping but I have a TT. it will come in handy with a motor home.We will be in SC first of April at dreer island state park.too cold up here to camp at that time of year.
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Post by riverrat on Mar 5, 2010 21:57:31 GMT -5
Checking in at 200 miles
February 23, 2010
Went out for an evening cruise for the first time. My main purpose was to check out the headlights which seemed to be pretty lame. That was an observation based on their level of brightness in daylight. I also had read quite a few reports of Chinese headlights being either inadequate or not working at all. I was surprised to find the headlights working just fine. The low beams seemed to be aimed a little low, but the high beams really did the job. I’m checking out potential problems while I am close to home, and I can call the wife if I have trouble.
A couple of other observations:
1. The new helmet really keeps my ears warm on a chilly evening.
2. My eyeglasses are too small to keep the wind out of my eyes, and riding goggles won’t fit over them. My prescription sunglasses are much bigger and provide great eye protection during the day, but I’ll have to solve this problem for nighttime riding.
February 28, 2010
The scooter now has 190 miles and runs great. I went out for several rides this weekend at 10 – 15 miles each, and I took the opportunity to check out my speed again. With the car, I measured a mile on the little country road I have been riding, then holding the scooter dead on 45 mph, it took 93 seconds to go one mile. That calculates to 38.71 mph, so my earlier calculations were correct. My speedometer is off at least 6 mph at 45 mph. I assume it will be off even more reading 55 or 60 mph. I am thinking of prying the needle off its post and moving it counter-clockwise one notch. What do you think Big Dawgs?
After realizing that the speedo is definitely off, I began to push the needle to around 50 especially down hills. Everything still performs like it should, but I am surprised how easily a strong wind pushes this bike around. We had 15 – 20 mph winds for the weekend with occasional 30 mph gusts. I am ready for spring.
March 4, 2010
This afternoon was sunny and around 55°, so I decided to go for a ride. The scooter started right up after sitting for 5 days, and I proceeded to put on my helmet and gloves. As I walked by the front of the bike, I couldn’t believe what I was seeing. One of the headlights was out. Everything I’ve read about these bikes is coming to pass. So, I set out for a short 10 mile ride and came home.
Back home, I removed the front fairing containing the headlights and set it aside. Since all the warnings I’ve read have been true about my scooter, I went ahead and removed the handlebars and the top of the steering head to see if mine was bone dry like all those I’ve heard about. I was actually surprised to find it not dry, but what was that brown sh!t in the bearings? Sorry, brown crap. Uh, you know. It sure didn’t look like any grease I’ve ever seen, and it was all pooled to one side. Once again, the warnings I had read were right. I should have taken that thing apart before I hit the road the first time. So, you can bet now, that it’s packed full with black American grease top and bottom.
But about those lights… I brought the fairing in the house (sorry Babe) and proceeded to remove the headlights. Man, that’s a cheap, cheesy wire thing holding those bulbs in. I took the burned out bulb with me today and stopped by Advance Auto Parts after work. They sure are glad about my purchase of the Chinese scooter. It takes an H4 bulb, and after reading the forums, it seems that most 150cc scooters also take that one. Advance had five different levels of H4 by Sylvania. I immediately noticed that all their bulbs seemed to be 55 watts, and my dead Chinese one was 18 watts. The eager salesman at Advance assured me that it would be ok. I settled on the one just above the standard level and bought a two-pack for $23.99 plus tax. I was feeling pretty good about my Sylvania lights made by an old American company I have actually heard of, so I smugly decided to read the label and find the part about “Made in USA” – Yeah, Right – I’m not sure why it is a good thing that Sylvania is making bulbs in Germany, but I’ll take it. Back home to the cheesy wire clips. Those things sure were a lot harder to install than take out, but only once did one of them fly across the room this time sending the cat out on the porch to take cover.
One other item of note at 200 miles is there seems to be a small leak in the speedometer gear where the cable comes out of it on the front wheel. Oil is leaking and dripping on the rim. I wonder what will happen when all the oil is quickly gone from that thing?
So, I’m thinking more and more that one would have to be insane to purchase a Chinese Internet scooter then take it out of the box and give it to a college kid who had never seen a wrench, but for the price I paid, I’m still ok with it. I’m going to buy some stock in Advance Auto Parts.
Later,
RR
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Post by gtbike on Mar 6, 2010 18:13:02 GMT -5
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Post by riverrat on Mar 6, 2010 20:59:03 GMT -5
Good idea GT, but that's not a snap on the wife's helmet. It's the size sticker that she didn't take off. The helmets are identical except for size. They are Bell Drifters, and they don't have snaps. I am thinking of maybe installing snaps. RR |
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FuelSipper
Junior Dawg
DS-08 Urban Racer...loves the garage more than the road
Posts: 12
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Post by FuelSipper on Mar 7, 2010 3:03:54 GMT -5
Let me know how those lights work out for you. In Nevada no one has every seen the big fat 35w I have in mine. Even the light bulb specialty shop guy looked at me crazy. I have been getting the same old chinese ones online and keep replacing them all the time. I was going to do like you and get a 55w but everyone tells me it would be to much strain on the electrics. Maybe I listen to the wrong people.
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Post by rocketdog on Mar 7, 2010 9:48:12 GMT -5
Aside from the strain on your electrical system, keep an eye on your headlight buckets and lenses. 55w generates a lot more heat than 18w. It could possibly melt one or the other. Or at least discolor the lens. I'm not saying any of this will happen to you. All these inexpensive scooters are different. Maybe yours has a better stator or thicker wiring than others. But a fried wiring harness or melted cheap Chinese plastic is not something I would want to deal with. 35w seems to work well enough for me. Now, as Fuel said, if we could just find a better 35w bulb.
RD
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Post by powerride on Mar 7, 2010 16:28:51 GMT -5
Use 10w40 motor oil..
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Post by chaossalto on Mar 7, 2010 17:02:16 GMT -5
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Post by speedracer12 on Mar 10, 2010 13:07:06 GMT -5
As far as helmets go, I would have purchased a full face helmet from Motorcylce Superstore. They have the best selection. I wear glasses and my Helmet fits fine with the full cover, plus my face isn't a target for small stones thrown off of cars and trucks, and I'm sure my face would look almost normal if in a crash. For oil since day one I have used only Mobile 1 10w-40 motorcycle oil T4. Pulling 6-7 thousand RPMs you need an oil made for those high rpms.
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Post by riverrat on Mar 19, 2010 22:31:37 GMT -5
March 19, 2010 I officially passed 350 miles yesterday, and I changed the oil again. I was a little disappointed to find more fine metal shavings. They appear smaller than glitter, and I hope they are just residual metal from the manufacturing process that has been suspended in the oil. They are as small as powder. My new lights came today. I ordered a pair of 35 watt H4 OEM Honda lights to fit a 2004 NPS50 Honda Ruckus. I installed them and waited for nightfall. Now, that’s how headlights are supposed to work. They were noticeably brighter than the 18 watt Chinese models, and they were even brighter than the 55/60 watt Sylvanias. They switch almost instantly from low to high beam, and my dash lights are once again bright. The lights are Honda OEM # 34901-MJ6-732 and appear to be made in Brazil by Phillips. I got them from Parts Pit Stop.com for $15.05 each plus the outrageous shipping charge of $12.83. Everything about these lights suggests that they are what you would expect from Honda, so I’m expecting them to outlast the Chinese scooter. At this point, I don’t think the 55/60 watt lights were a fire danger, because the scoot’s charging system simply wouldn’t power them to their full capacity, but I do think they were dangerous just by not being bright enough. I also thought they would eventually drain my battery by sucking up all the juice and leaving none to charge the battery, but I drove over 150 miles with them on all the way with no apparent draw on the battery. When I took the last ride with them, the battery would still spin the starter as fast as it ever did. An observation about the max speed of this scooter… I have followed my own plan of breaking in the engine by gradually increasing the speed from 25 mph for the first 50 miles, to 35 mph from 50 – 100 miles, and 45 mph from 100 – 350 miles. At 350 miles, I increased my speed to 55mph. This was the first time I felt like the scooter was actually struggling to keep up. It will run 55mph on flat land, but I really suspect that’s about all there is in it. I don’t think it will run 55 up a good hill, and it would have to be thrown off a pretty steep cliff to reach 70 mph. I mention 70 because when I was looking around at scooters in dealerships before purchasing this one online, a couple of fast-talking salesmen at two different dealerships assured me their 150cc scooters would run 70 mph. One was a Lance and the other a Peace. I’m really doubting what they said. I remain happy with the way the scooter performs and with the price I paid. It will do everything I need it to do, and even with the investment in lights, new hoses, clamps, and Loctite, I still have less than $800.00 in it. We are heading to Tybee Island for Spring Break in a couple weeks. I will check in after that trip. Big Dawgs, I am thinking about my first valve adjustment. Would you do it now or wait? How many miles??? RR  |
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Post by rocketdog on Mar 20, 2010 6:22:23 GMT -5
It certainly wouldn't hurt a thing to adjust them now. I checked mine soon after I purchased it. They were tight, the intake was between .001 and .002 of an inch and the exhaust was a bit looser. Now I wouldn't consider that gap dangerous but it did help the overall performance. It idled better and ran smoother. If the exhaust valve had been tighter, say .000-.001 of an inch, it could have possibly led to a burned valve. This wouldn't happen immediately, but hard use and high rpm would hasten it along. The valves need a little time to seat, so the heat can be transferred to the head and wicked away by the cooling fins. I set them both at .004.
RD
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Post by rapidjim on Mar 20, 2010 10:10:46 GMT -5
I agree with Rocketdog. We always check the valve adjustment on every new scooter before we sell it and it is surprising to see how many are really off. After running the scooter for over 350 miles as you have done and plan on taking it on a trip, I too would recommend checking the valve adjustment, better to do it at home instead of on the road.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Jim
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Post by riverrat on Dec 23, 2010 20:50:54 GMT -5
Apr, 2010 400 miles and a few issues. I have not posted in a long while to my diary here, so I am catching up while I am off for Christmas. I went ahead and adjusted the valves before our trip to Tybee Island, GA. Thanks to Rocketdog and Rapidjim for the advice. I could not find a feeler gauge with a blade of less than .004, so I bought one. I couldn’t get it between either of my valves, and I assume they were around .002 clearance. I backed both of them out to .004, and I’m noticing a few effects. The engine seems to take less time to “warm up”, it idles faster, throttle response is better and sharper, and the valve train is louder. I guess that was to be expected. I’m wondering about the fast idle. How can I tell if I have the air/fuel mix optimized? I hope I am finished with replacing lights. The new 35 watt headlights are bright, but when I would come to stop signs at night, I could watch the headlights dim. With the brakelight on and turn signals blinking, the stator still wouldn’t keep up. In addition, one of the Chinese turn signals was already burned out. I decided to order LED’s for all those. Their lower wattage has made a difference. The headlight still dims a little with the brakelight on at idle, but I suspect that is normal. I like the way the LED’s look, and they were not as expensive as I had thought they would be. www.superbrightleds.com I also discovered while replacing the turn signals that the one was not actually burned out, its wire had come unplugged. Just shabby workmanship… Now, a new issue. I had been noticing a strange surging in power, but I was not convinced there was anything wrong. I kept telling myself that it was wind gusts blowing the scooter, but I was wrong. This problem became very obvious at Spring Break with my wife and I both on the bike. The almost constant surges and losses in power were very noticeable, and they didn’t seem to be caused by changes in engine RPM. I decided the CVT belt must be slipping, and I had read of many problems with the cheap OEM belts. I replaced it with a Gates Powerlink, but the problem remained. |
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Post by riverrat on Dec 23, 2010 21:12:15 GMT -5
December 1, 2010
I drove the scooter occasionally during the summer with the power surging, and it is now up to 700 miles. I have decided to get serious about fighting this problem. At this point I am pretty sure the problem is in the engine and not the belt or CVT. I began with checking the fuel system, hoses, air lines, etc. I’ve never seen so many gov’t air lines that would not have been on a bike 20 years ago. Two of the lines were badly crimped, so I cut and shortened those. They are absolutely not obstructed now. As I took the bike for a spin at 38°, I was very optimistic that it would run perfectly. Disappointment again. The bike is running terribly.
December 2, 2010
I decided to bypass all the hoses and two weird looking little round thingys connected to the gas lines and air lines by running the fuel line directly from the tank to the carb the way it would have been back when the country was strong. Since I had to work an unusual 15 hour day, I didn’t have time to take it for a spin. I’m not optimistic that bypassing all these lines will solve the problem, but I am doing this one step at a time. I will win. I figure that at best these unnecessary lines and weird little pumps are robbing the scooter of performance; at worst, they are causing all my problems. As part of my pessimism, I am already ordering parts to replace the Chinese crap on the bike. I placed my order tonight with Scrappy Dog Scooters for a performance CDI, a performance coil, and an iridium spark plug.
December 4, 2010
I could not stand the suspense of waiting for my parts, and after reading many posts on this forum, I have decided that my carburetor is probably clogged. I know this 2008 model came to America as part of the boatload of scooters that were shipped while gas was over $4 per gallon. It sat in a box with old gas turning to varnish in the carb until I bought it early in 2010. So, I took the carb off, and it was surprisingly clean. I did run a wire through the jets, and when I took the top off I was pretty sure the slide was stuck. I cleaned it all up good and put her back together. Wow, I didn’t know it was supposed to sound like that. That’s the first time I’ve ever heard any noise at all from that bike. It really is running great now. I feel stupid for riding it almost a year like that.
December 14, 2010
I have ridden the bike several times lately, and I continue to be amazed how strong it seems. On Sunday, Dec. 12, I noticed the weather dudes were forecasting a real bone chiller for these parts. It was to be 12 degrees the night of December 13. I decided to ride the scooter to work about 25 miles each way. On Tuesday morning, with the mercury at 14°, I bundled up and headed out at 5:45. As I headed up the hill, the temp eventually got down to 11°. I survived it, but I need some better gloves next time.
December 16, 2010
It is now a little warmer, and I am anxious to try out my new parts on the scoot. I wanted to have a baseline, so I went out to see just how fast the scooter would run in totally stock form. I even took out the NGK plug I had put in last winter and put the Chinese original back in. I found a good place to do an acceleration test up a hill and a different place with a flat spot about ½ mile long to check top speed. Here are my results using GPS verified mph, not Chinometer which I now know is not even close to being accurate.
Stock acceleration 53.3 mph - top speed 57 mph
Iridium plug acceleration 52 mph - top speed 55 mph
Hot coil acceleration 52.6 mph - top speed 55 mph
Hot CDI acceleration 52.6 mph - top speed 55 mph
I am not making it up… The performance actually went down. I’m thinking these parts are one helluva marketing gimmick. Right off the bat, that 10 dollar spark plug (properly gapped) cost me 2 mph top speed and some acceleration. I really didn’t expect much from the hot coil, but I was very disappointed that the “performance CDI” which claimed to advance the timing curve and remove rev limits did absolutely nothing.
In the meantime, I had ordered a UNI foam filter, so I tried it out last. The results were
acceleration 55 mph - top speed 59.5 mph
Finally, a part that did what it said it would do. I got a measurable increase in performance. I actually think the top speed might have gone a little higher if I had used a longer flat spot. For now, I am going to give it a rest. I was considering ordering a “performance exhaust” and a bigger carb, but after the results of the other “performance” parts, I think I’ll spend my money on better beer.
I am now up to 800 miles, and I changed the oil. Now there’s a bright note. No metal shavings that I could see, and the little motor didn’t use a drop of oil during all this time. No smoking, no leaking, no burning. For the winter, I am going to do something I should have done when I took that scooter out of the box; I’m going to totally disassemble it and put it back together right.
I’d be interested in anyone’s thoughts about my “performance parts” and figures I listed here. I’d also like to know what you think about dropping $300 on a muffler and carburetor.
RR
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Post by Bluefront on Dec 24, 2010 4:10:13 GMT -5
Frankly....if you're registering 59mph GPS, I doubt you'll gain much/any more speed with a bigger carb and different exhaust. You'd probably need to do head/valve/piston/cylinder work to make a noticeable performance increase. Save your money for beer and gas.  |
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Post by tvnacman on Dec 24, 2010 12:04:30 GMT -5
forget the hp stuff , just get a bigger scooter or the one with the 16" wheels
I hear people talking about sliders and rollers ,It may just be a gamble
I have 2 2008 one with 13" wheels and one with 16" wheels the 16" wheel feels faster .
I'm in nyc and it is hard to get a strech without traffic or traffic lights
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Post by mopedmedic on Dec 24, 2010 13:26:16 GMT -5
A pipe will make a difference, especially in top end. But what you are figuring out, and what we figured out the hard way by ordering parts and trying them out, is that a lot of the "Performance" parts online actually decrease performance. Many of the aftermarket CDIs slow the bike down.
The only way to really dial the bike in is to get the pipe (European pipes are best, most of the stuff out of Taiwan and China is designed around looks, loud and cheap, and many people confuse loud with performance. The European pipes will make your bike perform better. We've had good luck with Tecnigas and Polini), get a range of jets, get some different rollers, and some 1500rpm rear springs, and spend time changing out the jets, changing out the rollers, and riding the bike, until you get it "right". This is a fairly small motor, and your altitude, and weight, as well as the weight of the bike, are big factors in dialing it in. You can't just order a rejetted carb and a bunch of "performance" stuff, and hope that bolting it all on at once will make the bike perfect.
As far as motor oil, we've had the best luck with the 20-50 full synthetic. When you look at how they set these bikes up in countries that don't have the EPA to deal with, the same manufacturers that tell us to put in 10-40 are putting 20-50 in them overseas and they are lasting a lot longer. This small motor with no filter really beats the crap out of motor oil)
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