Joined: Sept 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 639 Location: S.I. New York
11 coil upgrade, AC/DC, HID SOLUTIONS...... « Thread Started on Mar 20, 2009, 12:53pm »
I am almost done with what I think are the necessary upgrades for my scooter. The last part would be upgrading to an 11 coil stator, 7 pin rectifier, DC conversion and HID install.
Now I've looked through several threads and have a decent idea of the conversion but I have not seen a comprehensive explanation of all 3 upgrades working together ( coil, dc, HID).
I have unique situation where I have full access to the whole wire harness on my scoot, so I'll assume no multimeter needed for tracing.
At the end of this I hope all Dawgs who have had success with one, two or all these can come up with an explanation/ tutorial that someone can explain to a 5year old learner like myself.
Joined: Feb 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 1,073 Location: Motorcity
Re: Yet another 11 coil upgrade, AC/DC question.. « Reply #1 on Mar 20, 2009, 3:05pm »
Well since I am asked about this conversion about once a week, and there seems to be a general lack of information available about the conversion, and I am doing some art development for a website, and am just feeling good today, I decided to expand on an earlier drawing I did about the GY6 ignition.
So without further a due, may I present the full color GY6 11 coil conversion wire diagram. Hopefully this answers a lot of questions.
You can thank me with dawg bones, this took over an hour to create.
Right click > save as for high resolution file.
« Last Edit: Apr 27, 2011, 11:23pm by medman1952 »
Joined: Sept 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 639 Location: S.I. New York
Re: 11 coil upgrade, AC/DC, HID SOLUTIONS...... « Reply #4 on Mar 20, 2009, 4:17pm »
Bless your little heart gy6rocket,have a couple bones on me. I've copied pasted printed and framed this diagram in addition to your others. They now hang in my office as I have no garage, just a shed lol.
I am now looking to Pepboys or Radio Shack for new wire blocks since I really don't want to splice or use several new connections, just looks tacky.
Rocket (can I call you rocket), I hate to ask for more, maybe not just from you but I've also sensed Dawgs shudder at the thought of a multimeter, so if anyone has a site, or diagram or tutorial of a basic meter, I think this is the best place to put it.
Quote:
Posted by kink on Today at 3:42pm PS: if anyone knows someplace with an 11 magnet rotor in stock please let me know. I've been searching for a while now.
KinkI got lucky with a guy selling the set on ebay, but we really need to put pressure on our dealers since they seem to be out of stock everywhere. I see threads get hot about Cams and dealers and ebay are swamped with cams, I see hot Carb threads and all of a sudden we start seeing carbs like X-Mas. Unfortunately 11-coil upgrades, one of the simplest, just doesn't make the11 magnet flywheels come out, go figure. I'll keep hunting and if I find anything I'll let you know.
I would recommend it as it works great and does not break the bank. Make sure to get digital, as analog are much harder to read, especially for a newbie.
Joined: Sept 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 639 Location: S.I. New York
Re: 11 coil upgrade, AC/DC, HID SOLUTIONS...... « Reply #7 on Mar 22, 2009, 9:26am »
Ok guys I found a little time today to start working on my electric system. Every thing is fine but I did find an interesting splice in my stock circuit ( 6 pole stator, 4 pin rectifier), seems that the yellow wire has2 splices , one spliced into another yellow leading to the enricher and the 2nd leading to a brown which appears to be power for the lights both front and rear.
If I follow the diagram for the 11 pole/7 pin upgrade correct, I should break the enricher splice and run it directly to the white wire of the 7 pin rectifier? And the black wire to the brown (main harness + positive) ?
If I've got it wrong pleas correct me. I understand circuits on paper, I'm not ashame to admit practical application makes me a little nervous.
Joined: Sept 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 639 Location: S.I. New York
Re: 11 coil upgrade, AC/DC, HID SOLUTIONS...... « Reply #9 on Mar 22, 2009, 10:16am »
Thanks for the confirmation. Great found a rouge black wire in the shroud from the stock stator wires, got to take a break before I trace it. I can hardly wait until I have time to totally rewire this thing. Going to get a few new connecting blocks/ harness clips in an hour or so, any suggestions would be accepted.
Joined: Jun 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 946 Location: Toronto, Canada
Re: Yet another 11 coil upgrade, AC/DC question.. « Reply #12 on Mar 24, 2009, 9:52am »
the other wire is used on some systems to monitor the battery for charging purposes. if you are using a good quality battery on a 12 volt system this should not be an issue (or so i have been told by others who have done the swap).
Joined: Dec 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 13 Location: Long Island, NY - BUT Hawaiian Grown!!!
Re: Yet another 11 coil upgrade, AC/DC question.. « Reply #13 on Mar 24, 2009, 1:06pm »
gy6rocket - did you have to change out the Flywheel for the 11 pole? I currently have an 8 pole Stator and Flywheel, I need to know if I have also order a Flywheel to accompany the 11 pole.
Joined: Sept 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 639 Location: S.I. New York
Re:11 coil upgrade, AC/DC, HID SOLUTIONS...... « Reply #17 on Mar 25, 2009, 8:10am »
ASSUMPTIONS: 11 coils = 11 or so magnets. The new magneto will be bigger or more shallow to accommodate the new stator.
Sorry I forgot to take pixs of the new flywheel but I'm ordering a 2nd one (I always try to get parts in pairs) since it's electric an electric failure is an irreparable reliability failure.
ASSUMPTIONS: 11 coils = 11 or so magnets. The new magneto will be bigger or more shallow to accommodate the new stator.
Sorry I forgot to take pixs of the new flywheel but I'm ordering a 2nd one (I always try to get parts in pairs) since it's electric an electric failure is an irreparable reliability failure.
I agree with you that 11 coils = 11 magnets. It needs to be that way in order for the phase of the AC output to work properly with the ignition.
I'm pretty sure the flywheels are a standard size and depth regardless of the stator. The stators may have more poles, but they aren't physically any bigger. The poles are just clustered closer together around the radius. The magnets on the flywheel are tiny and don't take up a lot of room either so there is no reason to modify the flywheel. Also the cooling fan is mounted to the outside of the flywheel and it has to remain a standard size to work properly.
As far as ordering sets of 2 parts: that is a fantastic idea especially given how difficult it is to find some of the electric parts. However, coils CAN be repaired by removing all the coil wire and rewinding them. You can also increase their output by winding more wire around the coil, at the expense of increased heat and drag on the engine. This is an old motorcycle trick that I found out about from a friend of mine who builds custom bikes out of salvaged parts.
Joined: Feb 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 1,073 Location: Motorcity
Re: 11 coil upgrade, AC/DC, HID SOLUTIONS...... « Reply #19 on Mar 25, 2009, 11:15pm »
This is correct. Jack the fuzz documented how to rewind an 8 pole stator for more output in the 'electrical systems 'must read' thread.
Yes you need new coated copper magnet wire. Also using a smaller gauge magnet wire will allow for more turn per pole increasing output. Also how neatly the rows of coils (or turns) are arranged will increase output. Oh this is taking me back to electronics block class in high school when I constructed and wound my first DC engine!
This is correct. Jack the fuzz documented how to rewind an 8 pole stator for more output in the 'electrical systems 'must read' thread.
Yes you need new coated copper magnet wire. Also using a smaller gauge magnet wire will allow for more turn per pole increasing output. Also how neatly the rows of coils (or turns) are arranged will increase output. Oh this is taking me back to electronics block class in high school when I constructed and wound my first DC engine!
Joined: Feb 2008 Gender: Male Posts: 1,073 Location: Motorcity
Re: 11 coil upgrade, AC/DC, HID SOLUTIONS...... « Reply #21 on Mar 26, 2009, 12:26am »
Here is a graph from that thread about why an 11 coil is superior to a 4, 6 or 8 pole style. the 11 coil uses 3x banks of 3 coil windings. (9 coils) for charging and 2 coils for ignition output, (9+2=11).
The 3x banks of 3 coils creates, 3 phase current which is shown in this bottom row of this chart: (BTW) Rectified + Filtered AC = DC current
DC output is much more stable. When testing with my mutli meter each 3 coil bank outputs about 4.5vac - 5vac depending on the engine RPM, resulting in the post regulator system dumping 13.5vdc - 15vdc into the battery. Unless you dump over 12v into the battery , it's not really going to stay charged.
Joined: Jul 2012 Gender: Male Posts: 301 Location: Boise ID
Re: 11 coil upgrade, AC/DC, HID SOLUTIONS...... « Reply #23 on Aug 4, 2012, 5:27am »
I'm curious I've seen the AC HID kits. Can you buy one of those and just plug it in and go or will the charging system fail / burn out without upgrading to the 11 pole setup.
If you do the DC conversion in the diagram above will the CDI and coil still be firing off AC or is everything on the bike moved to DC? Assuming it all moves to DC do I need to buy a DC coil and CDI?
I'm curious I've seen the AC HID kits. Can you buy one of those and just plug it in and go or will the charging system fail / burn out without upgrading to the 11 pole setup.
If you do the DC conversion in the diagram above will the CDI and coil still be firing off AC or is everything on the bike moved to DC? Assuming it all moves to DC do I need to buy a DC coil and CDI?
You'll get more answers if you start a new thread instead of digging up one from 3 years ago. It may be better to go to an HID forum and ask that question. They know the systems better than most on this forum.
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