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 Author | Topic: Almost dies going into its second gear (Read 290 times) |
timmyfreak
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|  | Almost dies going into its second gear
« Thread Started on Jul 27, 2012, 11:46pm » | |
Does anyone have any thoughts as to what would kill my second gear. I get a good first gear for about 5 seconds; 10ish mph maybe....and then it revs down so low it nearly dies. After it creeps slowly up to 30, its not so bad and can finally top out at 50!!! So I can't complain there, and hope to not loose top end trying to correct the transfer into its second phase. I know it doesnt have gears literally lol  Stock variator and clutch with 6.5g rollers.
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floridaguy
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| | Re: Almost dies going into its second gear
« Reply #1 on Jul 27, 2012, 11:57pm » | |
sounds like your rollers might be sticking or maybe has flat spots on them. Take the variator off and inspect the rollers if they look good clean the variator out. any little bit of dirt can cause the rollers to slow down when the are going up the ramp plate. If there are flat spots on the rollers change them or put in sliders.
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52mm bbk 50mm hoca big boar head 5 gram rollers freeflow intake and exhaust kei hin 20mm carburetor 49/17 gear set Orange coil and cdi. 95 main jet 40 idle |
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timmyfreak
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| | Re: Almost dies going into its second gear
« Reply #2 on Jul 28, 2012, 12:05am » | |
I just got this all running, for some reason a 1500 rpm contra/cluth spring set was heating up and eating my belts. I had the previous weights out, they were 7g. I have new 6.5g's in it now. they all rolled out tho the edge of the variator freely as I tipped it around. It's had the same symptoms since all new parts were installed. Weights, fan, belt, and clutch assembly are all new.
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OverReved
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| | Re: Almost dies going into its second gear
« Reply #3 on Jul 28, 2012, 1:49am » | |
I guess it's a 50 you are posting about, wonder what kind.
If you can dump a ton of information here like RPMs it climbs to before shifting, rpm it drops to after the shift, how long it takes to get to 30 and then 50, RPMs it is reaching at 50, mods you have installed that differ from the stock set-up in the CVT, any modifications you have done that could alter base power, information on how it drives(any bogging hard starts weak acceleration lack of power) etc. etc. etc. there would be more to work with. You said it's a second stage of an end result. That's not a good way to try and upgrade since each part you put on changes the characteristics of the drive. Attempting to tune for each upgrade as you put them on is just asking to have a pile of parts that you didn't need in the end.
Bah forget that, post a video.
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skuttadawg
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| | Re: Almost dies going into its second gear
« Reply #4 on Jul 28, 2012, 2:08am » | |
Try 5 grams that is what I went to from 8 grams and wow it was faster . The 1.5k clutch springs require 1,500 more RPMs to engage . The contra springs will wear out a belt much faster and can cause damage . Try stock springs with 5 gram rollers and see how it does . I would get a Bando Kevlar to already have handy before yours breaks . A size or 2 larger main jet will help but too big will be out of tune . A performance variator like Dr Pulley or Hoca will help .
How many miles on it ? Is it a 4T ? If so it will need the valves to be adjusted sooner or later .
Most 50s have a sealed carb ( air/fuel screw covered ) and may not have a clip on the needle to adjust it . A replacement carb is as low as 35 http://eshop.mainelyscooters.com/product....retor/cat-carb/
The fuel and vacuum lines on some are crap and will crack and collaspe thus hurting performance . Most her replace with automotive fuel line from any auto parts store along with a fuel filter . I use the golden cone ones since I can see when its dirty and needs replacing .
A 50 is a 50 and will never have the power or speed of a motorcycle . A BBK is the best way to get more power
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timmyfreak
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| | Re: Almost dies going into its second gear
« Reply #5 on Jul 28, 2012, 9:19am » | |
She is a 4 stroke. 50cc. I have a new 20mm carb on it. Punched a hole in the muffler to let her breathe better. Removed the stock airbox and put an aftermarket filter on it. Other than that, all the parts inside the CVT are stock now. Valves have been adjusted recently, but I will check them again here soon. And yeah....a video I guess would help explain easier how its shifting. I'll try and get one up soon guys!
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viral
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| | Re: Almost dies going into its second gear
« Reply #6 on Jul 28, 2012, 9:35am » | |
My friend has a TaoTao that was doing the same thing. Pulled great off the start then once it hit like 10mph the acceleration just cut off entirely and it would very slowwwwly creep up to 40. I gave him some 5g weights to put in and now that thing pulls like a beast! We found out it's a secret 63cc but you would never have guessed till we put the new roller weights in.
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timmyfreak
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| | Re: Almost dies going into its second gear
« Reply #7 on Jul 28, 2012, 8:55pm » | |
Well as fun as this was to try and film lol, I managed to succeed. Also here's another symptom I've noticed recently, and its in the video also but you cant hear it over the wind, it seems to top out and starve for fuel? Just stalls all of a sudden, and when you give it light throttle it fires again at low rpm's and I had to speed up again. Note how low she idle's down when it switches into its second gear.
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mainepeace
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| | Re: Almost dies going into its second gear
« Reply #8 on Jul 28, 2012, 10:50pm » | |
You have two issues going on here.
The "gear shifting" is due to the rollers weight. They are thrown out to the edge much faster because of their weight. This compresses the variator faster and causes the ratio to change much faster than you expect, or desire. Put in lighter weights and that will solve the issue.
If it is almost dying when this "shift" occurs its because the carburetor needs to be tuned. We're talking about the midrange so you need to raise or lower the needle (if you can). You need to know if the motor is bogging or starving for fuel and adjust accordingly.
However, once you put in lighter weights it might be a non-issue.
Greg
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mainepeace
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| | Re: Almost dies going into its second gear
« Reply #9 on Jul 28, 2012, 10:52pm » | |
Next time it almost dies, kill the motor and read the spark plug. That will tell you if you are lean or rich.
Also, next time please don't ride one handed. Tape the camera to your helmet or something.
Greg
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OverReved
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| | Re: Almost dies going into its second gear
« Reply #10 on Jul 29, 2012, 1:00am » | |
Be careful when pulling a plug from a hot engine. I've seen threads come out with them when hot, probably due to being overtightened to begin with but you never know. I always wait a bit , cooler is easier to handle.
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mainepeace
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| | Re: Almost dies going into its second gear
« Reply #11 on Jul 29, 2012, 1:02am » | |
Good tip. I always wear gloves or I burn my fingers.
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viral
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| | Re: Almost dies going into its second gear
« Reply #12 on Jul 29, 2012, 9:08am » | |
Jul 28, 2012, 10:52pm, mainepeace wrote:Next time it almost dies, kill the motor and read the spark plug. That will tell you if you are lean or rich.
Also, next time please don't ride one handed. Tape the camera to your helmet or something.
Greg |
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Hehe, I ride one handed 99% of the time.
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timmyfreak
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| | Re: Almost dies going into its second gear
« Reply #13 on Jul 29, 2012, 1:40pm » | |
I will order me some new weights soon. Local stores didn't have anything lighter than 6.5g rollers. I think I'll order some 5g sliders. I hear sliders wear less and perform better? As far as tuning the carb?....how can I adjust this needle up or down? you mean the A/F mixture? I've tried that already. Do I maybe need bigger jets? My 20mm carb has a size 80 main jet and 35 idle jet.
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OverReved
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| | Re: Almost dies going into its second gear
« Reply #14 on Jul 29, 2012, 1:52pm » | |
Sliders do perform better and wear less, yes.
The needle is located on the main diaphragm inside the carb, you remove the large round cover to access it. On most models there is a small clip and several notches: you can move this clip up or down the notches to change how soon and how much fuel is being allowed to flow into the engine. Moving the clip up results in a leaner top end. Moving it down results in a richer one. Washers can be stacked under the top of the needle to shim the needle up if no clip is present, this will result in a richer setting.
Before you attempt to change the jets ( which are a good size for your motor already) you should install your new weights as mainepeace suggested.
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timmyfreak
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| | Re: Almost dies going into its second gear
« Reply #15 on Jul 29, 2012, 3:25pm » | |
Is this the pin you are referring too?
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I don't remember any clip or adjustment on it if so.
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OverReved
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| | Re: Almost dies going into its second gear
« Reply #16 on Jul 29, 2012, 3:45pm » | |
Yes that is the one.
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timmyfreak
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| | Re: Almost dies going into its second gear
« Reply #17 on Jul 29, 2012, 3:51pm » | |
So I should try and set a thin washer between the head of this pin and that small 3prong plastic clip it sets in?
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OverReved
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| | Re: Almost dies going into its second gear
« Reply #18 on Jul 29, 2012, 3:56pm » | |
You should not try setting a washer in there. Several posters feel your engine is rich or lean. Setting a washer in there will make it richer as I posted earlier. If you'd like to do that modification you need to have some justification to do so. Read a spark plug to see if it is rich or lean or correct at least as a base point.
More than that I think you should heed Mainepeace's advice and wait till you have your new variator rollers installed.
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| | Re: Almost dies going into its second gear
« Reply #19 on Jul 29, 2012, 7:16pm » | |
Check yours out; a lot of the aftermarket carbs come with an adjustable needle; set the clip lower for richer or higher for leaner.
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