Joined: Mar 2012 Gender: Male Posts: 62 Location: Norfolk, VA
SUCCESS!!!!! « Thread Started on Mar 26, 2012, 8:08pm »
So I came home today and someone had hit my parked scooter, apparently knocked it over, and cracked and broke some of the body panels. So that was about the final straw after this past week of not being able to get my scooter to start. If you haven't read my previous threads, I was having trouble with losing power and very difficult start. So I swapped out the original carb with a new one and installed an 80 main jet. I also replaced all the fuel and vacuum lines and put in a new fuel filter. After that, I could not get it to start at all and drained the battery trying, so I was starting to think it was an internal problem with the piston.
So today, I come home, scooters all beat up, and I'm about ready to just give up. But despite it all, I hooked up some jumper cables from my car to my scooter and attempted to start it. And much to my surprise, IT STARTED!!
HOWEVER, I'm still having the issue of it being really difficult to start. It only starts if I give it full throttle, which is not normal. Its a brand new carb, and I adjusted the valve clearance to .004" and .005". So I'm a little stumped.
The good news is, I took it for a spin and there's a HUGE difference in the power. It's running really well and it seems like the clean carb and bigger main jet make a huge difference. I still need to check the spark plug to see if it's running at the right A/F mixture. I attempted to adjust it a little today but it was getting dark and it wasn't working. I have it at 2.5 turns out from closed right now, but the idle is sporadic. I turned it out 1/8 turn counterclockwise from 2.5 turns and nothing happened after like 30 seconds so i turned it back to 2.5. then the idle went up quite a bit. So I'm going to attempt to get that right tomorrow.
It's also still dying at idle. So I'm still a little stumped. Why is it still so hard to start? That's my main question. Why is it not starting? Any thoughts?
------------------------------- Pepe II - 2011 Peace Sport VIP 80cc big bore Aftermarket Free Flow Exhaust NKG Plug CVK Carb (2.5 Turns) 85 Main Jet Carb Needle in Center Position Stock Airbox with the 4 hole cap removed
Pepe - 2010 Peace Sport VIP 50cc (Totaled and gone... RIP Pepe)
I haven't checked it, but I got my hands on a compression gauge today, I just need to find a 10mm adapter. I figured since it's running really well otherwise that the compression is OK, but maybe not.... What could be wrong internally if it's running well except for starting?
Joined: Mar 2012 Gender: Male Posts: 295 Location: Charlotte NC
Re: SUCCESS!!!!! « Reply #6 on Mar 26, 2012, 8:43pm »
Isn't the valve clearances supposed to be .004mm? I thought I saw someone on here say that it equaled out to .002". Could be wrong on that, but can't hurt to double check.
Isn't the valve clearances supposed to be .004mm? I thought I saw someone on here say that it equaled out to .002". Could be wrong on that, but can't hurt to double check.
I've looked into this quite a bit. Most manuals say .002", but the tried and true clearances according to many people on this site is .004" intake and .005" exhaust.
Joined: Mar 2012 Gender: Male Posts: 62 Location: Norfolk, VA
Re: SUCCESS!!!!! « Reply #8 on Mar 26, 2012, 9:51pm »
I've done some more reading and I think it may be getting too much fuel. I'm going to try 2 turns from closed and see if that helps. Could also be the ignition coil. I noticed there's a burn mark on the inside that connects to the spark plug.
2011 Tao Tao ATM-50A1 63cc NGK iridium spark plug VISU Fuel Filter CVK carb with 80 Main jet De-restricted stock airbox
prelude2fast Great Big Guru Dawg member is offline
Joined: Mar 2012 Gender: Male Posts: 657 Location: Arkansas, USA
Re: SUCCESS!!!!! « Reply #9 on Mar 26, 2012, 10:00pm »
I adjusted my valves to .004" and they were super loud!!!! Someone on the forum then told me it was .04mm or .002" and .04mm is .0015" and .0025" is .06mm.. I went with .0025" and sounds perfect, and runs better than when I bought it.. Haven't tried .04mm.. Kinda scared.. thats really tight... Hope this helps.
'08 Jonway YY50QT-6 83cc 50mm BBK NGK Iridium plug Uni Pod Filter Unrestricted C.D.I aftermarket coil full exhaust Hoca Transmission kit with 1K torque spring and 8G Hoca roller weights '08 Baja SC50 project bike
Re: SUCCESS!!!!! « Reply #10 on Mar 26, 2012, 10:10pm »
Rich, You want the HIGHES IDLE you can get when adjusting the Fuel Ratio screw. You do this AFTER the motor is nice and warm At least five minutes of Idleing. When you first start it the ENRICHER is feeding it extra fuel for cold starts. So you have to wait until it cuts off the extra fuel which is 4-5 minutes.
Then turn the Fuel Ratio screw 1/4 at a time and wait for about 10 seconds or so and Listen for the Idle to go down or up. You want it to go up. So if it goes up repeat the 1/4 turn UNTIL the idle does not go up anymore THEN TURN IT BACK 1/8 and that should be the best setting.
And your right it could be getting to much fuel for cold starts with the Fuel Ratio being to rich and the ENRICHER also feeding it fuel. Wile
Joined: Mar 2012 Gender: Male Posts: 62 Location: Norfolk, VA
Re: SUCCESS!!!!! « Reply #11 on Mar 26, 2012, 10:48pm »
Thanks Wile. I tried that and i heard no idle change (starting at 2.5 turns). So I'm going to try it at like 1.75 and see what happens.
Also, I'm not sure what size the idle jet is, but I've been reading that a 38 is best... I'm assuming I have a 35 or 36 (I think that's what comes in the carbs, I got a "type 1"). So I'm guessing that with the smaller jet, 2.5 turns might be too much? Would that cause flooding? I think I'll just order a 38 and try that too...
Re: SUCCESS!!!!! « Reply #13 on Mar 26, 2012, 11:06pm »
Rich, You have to DO THIS while the motor is running, NOT turn the screw and then start it.
A. Start the Scoot 1. Turn the Screw CLOCKWISE 1.4 FROM WHERE IT IS AT Wait 10 seconds to let the motor catch up with the new setting. *** IF ON THE FIRST 1/4 TURN it does nothing or IDLE GOES DOWN TURN IT BACK 1/4 and go to #2. ***
a. If the IDLE goes UP REPEAT #1. b. If the IDLE goes DOWN or does nothing turn it COUNTER CLOCKWISE 1/8 and you are done. c. It now could be idleing to high so lower the Idle using the SPEED IDLE SCREW. You do NOT WANT THE REAR wheel to be spinning.
2. Turn the Screw CLUNTER CLOCKWISE 1.4 FROM WHERE IT IS AT Wait 10 seconds to let the motor catch up with the new setting. a. If the IDLE goes UP REPEAT #2. b. If the IDLE goes DOWN or does nothing turn it CLOCKWISE 1/8 and you are done. c. It now could be idleing to high so lower the Idle using the SPEED IDLE SCREW. You do NOT WANT THE REAR wheel to be spinning.
* IF the screw is turned OUT MORE than 3 Turns for it to IDLE GOOD you need the next BIGGER Pilot Jet *
* IF the screw is turned OUT LESS than 2 Turns for it to IDLE GOOD you need the next SMALLER Pilot Jet *
EDITED and CORRECTED: I made a mistake and had the SMALLER and BIGGER Pilot jet sceniro backwards in the above 2 sentences. Sorry if I confused someone my BAD.
Rich, You have to DO THIS while the motor is running, NOT turn the screw and then start it.
A. Start the Scoot 1. Turn the Screw CLOCKWISE 1.4 FROM WHERE IT IS AT Wait 10 seconds to let the motor catch up with the new setting. *** IF ON THE FIRST 1/4 TURN it does nothing or IDLE GOES DOWN TURN IT BACK 1/4 and go to #2. ***
a. If the IDLE goes UP REPEAT #1. b. If the IDLE goes DOWN or does nothing turn it COUNTER CLOCKWISE 1/8 and you are done. c. It now could be idleing to high so lower the Idle using the SPEED IDLE SCREW. You do NOT WANT THE REAR wheel to be spinning.
2. Turn the Screw CLUNTER CLOCKWISE 1.4 FROM WHERE IT IS AT Wait 10 seconds to let the motor catch up with the new setting. a. If the IDLE goes UP REPEAT #2. b. If the IDLE goes DOWN or does nothing turn it CLOCKWISE 1/8 and you are done. c. It now could be idleing to high so lower the Idle using the SPEED IDLE SCREW. You do NOT WANT THE REAR wheel to be spinning.
* IF the screw is turned OUT MORE than 3 Turns for it to IDLE GOOD you need the next Smaller Pilot Jet *
* IF the screw is turned OUT LESS than 2 Turns for it to IDLE GOOD you need the next Bigger Pilot Jet * Wile
Thanks Wile. Alright, so I tuned the carb and I ended up at about 1-1.5 turns out, so I guess I need a bigger pilot jet. I just ordered a 40, so hopefully that works. I'm still having the hard to start issue, even when the engine's hot. I checked all the lines. I'm going to check the valves again.
One thing i did find was that I felt some air moving around the intake manifold. I took it off, inspected it and put it back on, still felt the air, but couldn't find a leek. I'm not sure if I was just feeling air from the cooling fan though...
Another odd thing was when i drained the carb when it flooded once, it just kept coming and coming.. Shouldn't the petcock shut it off? or was the vacuum created by the carb draining keep it flowing? I checked the petcock by removing the vacuum line from the intake manifold and the fuel line from the carb. No gas came out when they were unhooked. I sucked on the vacuum line and gas came out, so that seemed good.
I took it for a spin and topped out at 35 mph (GPS). I'm a little over 200 lbs and 6 ft 3 in, so I'm thinking that might be normal even with the upjet, but that's the speed I was getting before. I was actually going a little faster when the scooter was new.
Next steps are going to be to check the valves, check the spark plug to see if im running at the right mixture. I'm hoping the bigger pilot jet will solve the start up problem, but I'm not too optimistic... I'm also trying to find a 10mm adapter for my compression gauge so i can check compression. If none of that works I don't really know what to do except a new ignition coil maybe.... AAHHHHH!!!!
Joined: Jul 2010 Gender: Male Posts: 5,894 Location: Mainely Scooters
Re: SUCCESS!!!!! « Reply #15 on Mar 28, 2012, 6:46pm »
The petcock could ba faulty. If it's flooding the carb bowl, which is then leaking into the intake, that could cause the hard start issue.
Pull off the fuel line and the vacuum line to the gas tank. Put one end of the fuel line into a container so you don't spill gas everywhere. Alternate sucking/blowing on the vacuum line. When you stop sucking the fuel flow should STOP. If it doesn't, and even blowing into the vacuum line doesn't free up the diaphragm to stop the flow, then you need to replace the petcock. They're cheap.
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