Joined: Dec 2011 Gender: Male Posts: 5 Location: Portland, OR
I left my brand new TaoTao in the rain...:-( « Thread Started on Dec 9, 2011, 3:26pm »
I have a brand new TaoTao 49cc scooter. It is my first scooter. I'm new, but not mechanic-illiterate. I bought it from provenpowersports.com in september. I Have changed the oil and crankcase fluid regularly, and performed total system checks twice to make sure no wires aren't loose, and all the bolts are tightened. I left it in the rain (I live in Portland) for two days; which I'd done before once or twice, also I commute to work on it, so i've ridden in the rain many times with absolutely no consequence. Let me be very clear. This bike out-performed my friends identical blue model (we purchased them together for the discount) from the get go. No problems at all ever (except the brights won't work steadily, but no real problems). It ran great, smooth, and fast. Never dying, sputtering, or hard to start. Perfect idle, perfect warm up. So unrealistically good, that I was laughing at all these people who seem to hate china scoots, since mine rocked-face! I went out that fateful night, and started it just fine. Literally it started right up, purring. So I let it warm up for 10 minutes which i've always done before riding, and then I got on it to ride. I got 100 feet and it lost all power briefly. It did not die, it just sputtered and lost power (the light went dim and it stopped accelerating) I stopped, and looked down at the bike for a minute, it returned to idling, so I thought it was just a sputter, I turned the throttle, and it sputtered again, jumped forward a bit, then died slowly, exactly like a car does when the fuel pump is going out and dies, or you get water in your gas... so these were my first conclusions. I got some HEET and put it in my gas, and it started again, but then died after idling for a minute. I drained the tank completely, and put more gas in there from a very busy shell station (no bad gas chance there) it started... for a minute, then died. after that, it wouldn't start at all, just crank over and over, so I stopped killing my starter. but, when I let it sit for 15 minutes or so, it would start back up again, run for a minute, then sputter and die. "so not bad gas" I concluded. I was moving the next week, so I covered him up with a tarp, and left him alone for a bit. After we moved, I had (have) a full garage to work on, out of the rain, with a heater in it to regulate the temperature. Then I dove into the actual engine: I checked all the rubber vacuum hoses for cracks or leaks; Check. Changed the spark plug, checked it for wetness (none, the old one was blackened and charred, but not wet or oily in the least bit) New one is gapped perfectly for my bike (I know because I still can get it to start, just not actually keep running, so the spark is good and strong; Check. Took the fuel line off the Carb, put it in a bucket, and tried to start TaoTao, as soon as I cranked it, gas came out very strongly in a "chug chug" motion with each turn of the engine trying to start. So I figure this means my Petcock's good (call me immature, but the little boy in me can't stop laughing internally that my bike has a "pet-cock" hehehe...sorry ); Check. Okay, so I don't currently own a compression tester, and will get one soon, but if I have a problem with compression, then would I be able to start, and temporarily run, an engine? Don't you need compression just to get it started? I took the carb off, and looked inside from every angle I could, and didn't see one tiny speck of dust or grease or dirt, just shiny new metal. I've never had a Carb problem, and when I do, I'll have to buy a brand new one instead of clean it, because for some reason, these brand new screws are in the carb so tight, that with no "break-free" and tool combo, can I get the screws that hold the carb together out... I mean, some come out, but there's three which are now completely stripped from me (very gently, but persistently) trying to unscrew them. Crappy, but even carbs aren't much $ for china bikes. Anyway, my point is, that I really really really don't think it's the carb. the bike is to new, and to well cared for, for that to be it. and heck, the bike RUNS on starting fluid. really really good! It just won't keep running. So, I cleaned the air filter, which I'd done before, recently, and (here's something that might matter) had put too much oil in the filter I suspect, because it came dripping out of the sponge-filter chip when I removed the cover. SWEET! I thought I'd found my problem! I thought maybe I had weighted down the filter, and so my bike had a hard time getting air! Nope. But at least now my filter is super clean and only has the recommended light coating of oil on its surface.
So, not the petcock, spark-plug, air filter, or vacuum lines. And let's humor me, and say it's not the actual carburetor. I've read lots of posts/threads where guys will clean their carb three times only to find out it was something else all along, cleaning the carb is a last resort for me, since some china-man got over zealous with his new screw-driver when assembling my scooter. If the bike was older, or I had abused it, maybe it'd be more likely, but I really don't think it's the carb, the carb will WORK on starting fluid.
What's wrong with my bike? Help me learn to be a better bike mechanic please. I'm trying, but this is getting ridiculous and frustrating. It could have been so many simple things, and it's not. Which is life, but I wish it had just been bad gas or bad petcock. I need/want/would love my scooter back. I heard a rumor about some electric fuel thingy that goes out on these bikes? Some sensor or regulator? What about that? I really don't feel there's engine/carb damage.
Remember, when it actually died, it was exactly like a fuel pump going out on a car. First it's getting gas, then it's struggling, then it gets some!....and then the pump blows, and after that, your car will turn and turn, but it would not crank to a start. I could go start it right now on starting fluid... well, I blew the starter last night after weeks of trying different solutions. But I could.
www.scooterelements.com Your GY6 150cc Racing Parts site!
Joined: Aug 2011 Gender: Male Posts: 2,435 Location: Coamo, Puerto Rico
Re: I left my brand new TaoTao in the rain...:-( « Reply #1 on Dec 9, 2011, 3:35pm »
WOW thats alot of information lol. thats very odd. Did you try adjusting your valves? and also my scooter did that a long time ago and it turned out to be alot of dirt and crap inside the actual float bowl of the carb that clogged the jets. Also my scooter sleeps outside everynight. sometimes i remember to put a tarp over it sometimes i dont and it rains and have never had any problems with it.
Joined: Dec 2011 Gender: Male Posts: 5 Location: Portland, OR
Re: I left my brand new TaoTao in the rain...:-( « Reply #2 on Dec 9, 2011, 4:00pm »
LOL, I just wanted, after being a guest in these forums for a while, (learning great stuff just reading other peoples threads) to make SURE that there was no confusion, and everybody new where I was coming from, and what I had tried and not tried. Now anybody nice enough to help me out, will be on the same page as I.
Valves is on my list of, "next", I wanted to get the easy things out of the way first... hmmmm... dirt in the float bowl you say? I cleaned the fuel filter out (plastic POS) and soon after, it seems to have little bits of dirt in it, suspended in the corner of it, so I would buy the idea that while the carb is probably mostly clean, it might have some gunk in the bowl. I cleaned the gas tank when I bought it, but who knows, stuff happens. I'll put that on my list, if I can get the damn thing open at all, otherwise i'll support some of these fine vendors that support this page and buy a new one.
And about the rain: really? So, you think it was just coincidence that it happened when it did? Makes sense. Life is so full of weird coincidences, that it's almost strange when things don't seem weird. I feel an appropriate metaphor here is; 'When it rains it pours'. (punny, i know)
But, about this "sensor" or "regulator" that is electronic, and tends to go out on these less expensive bikes? What is it? Where is it? I just read about it last night in a thread, and made a mental note to ask about it.
thanks SE! And, how's the weather in the Port of Riches amigo? Better than here in the NW I hope.
Re: I left my brand new TaoTao in the rain...:-( « Reply #3 on Dec 9, 2011, 5:15pm »
I have a feeling your problem has little to do with rain. In some Asia countries scooters are seldom parked in a garage and they are rained on all the time. Sorry I know this is not helping but just wanted to point out most scooters are supposed to be able to handle rain.
Re: I left my brand new TaoTao in the rain...:-( « Reply #5 on Dec 9, 2011, 6:12pm »
I tend to agree with scooter element about the valves. Also check your gas filter. We had a Tao Tao in our shop and it was the trigger pick up coil. Good luck,
i'm sorry, can you elaborate on "trigger pickup coil?" these bikes only slightly resemble a car engine, and I keep thinking I know what i'm doing next and come up against a part that makes me go, "huh?" And my manual is written in 'Chinglish', so it doesn't help me. Where is it exactly? I found this on google: http://www.dansmc.com/cdiignition.htm
Joined: Dec 2011 Gender: Male Posts: 5 Location: Portland, OR
Re: I left my brand new TaoTao in the rain...:-( « Reply #7 on Dec 9, 2011, 7:10pm »
From the above site: OK, we can use an ohm meter to check most things except the black box, and sometimes, even the black box... If we are lucky ! Well, maybe things tested Ok. You have to remember, on all electrical things, they test either bad or they might be good. There are a number of very expensive testers out there, and they all claim to work great. But do they ? Let me tell you a story. I once had a snowmobile come in which would die (no spark) after 5-6 minutes of running. I had factory specs on everything including the black box. Everything tested OK, even when hot. Long story short, I finally ended up talking to the owner of a business that made aftermarket, replacement, snowmobile CDI boxes. He told me all the factory specs were wrong, and gave me some new specs that he said sometimes worked and as he was very knowledgeable about electronic ignitions I asked him what tester he used. He told me he had tried them all and none of them worked. He said for each new CDI box design his company bought an engine, and modified it so they could run it with an electric motor. They could then test the black boxes by substitution. Customers could send in their factory CDI boxes and he could test them to see if they were good. He said they had a whole warehouse full of these modified engines. This was back in 1988-89. I like to think they have something better now... however, I still can't afford a tester other than an Ohm meter.
The reason I'm telling you all this, is to give you an idea of the amount of hassle these things can be. Many times I've read factory bulletins telling their people in the field to be more careful. They're sending back, under warranty, too many "bad" boxes that turn out to be good.
THAT is what i'm afraid of. That I'm really doing all this work for nothing, and it's not mechanical at all, but electrical in nature. Does anyone with a new-ish 49cc scoot have any weigh in on this? should i keep trying all this mechanical stuff, or focus on the electrical. hell, if these things are prone to go out, then it wouldn't hurt to replace the whole ignition/starter system. thoughts?
So I let it warm up for 10 minutes which i've always done before riding, and then I got on it to ride. I got 100 feet and it lost all power briefly. It did not die, it just sputtered and lost power (the light went dim and it stopped accelerating) I stopped, and looked down at the bike for a minute, it returned to idling
Well it sounds like an electrical problem. With dodgy chinese electrics + rain it sounds even more like it. Check your grounding between engine and frame first. Then between the battery and the frame. Then check the charging system (less likely). Then check the switched on your handlebars and check all the wires for chafing, plus the fuses and how they are installed.
Joined: Dec 2011 Gender: Male Posts: 5 Location: Portland, OR
Re: I left my brand new TaoTao in the rain...:-( « Reply #12 on Dec 10, 2011, 12:52pm »
Alright! Thanks guys, I work all weekend and monday, but come tuesday I will check my valves first, and then replace the CDI, then try to get at the carb... if i can, if the screws are too stripped, I'll just have to order another one... but that's just if the new CDI and valve check doesn't fix the problem. When I replace the CDI, I will check all the wiring as well.
Thank you all very much, and I will check back in a few days with a report, after I get a chance to work on it. You people are very helpful, thank you.
Re: I left my brand new TaoTao in the rain...:-( « Reply #13 on Dec 10, 2011, 4:01pm »
The rain will deffinately cause things to corode. As stated check all your ground connections. We have had guys bring in scooters that they had under a tarp and still have moisture problems.
Joined: Nov 2011 Gender: Male Posts: 33 Location: Meriden, CT
Re: I left my brand new TaoTao in the rain...:-( « Reply #14 on Feb 4, 2012, 3:20pm »
Sounds to me like you need to clean your carb. I had an old moped (Not scooter, moped) that had it's carb clogged up partially and would run for a minute or so, then stop. Because it would leak gas out to the engine when it wasn't on.
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I'm trying, but this is getting ridiculous and frustrating. It could have been so many simple things, and it's not. Which is life, but I wish it had just been bad gas or bad petcock. I need/want/would love my scooter back. 
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