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Post by scalade on May 2, 2011 21:04:41 GMT -5
I have a serious manufacturing issue with peace sports.These bikes they are sending me particularly the 804 and 805 2010 models are comming as duds.Here is the issue
The bikes start and idle fine.Run up to about 25mphs just like they should.When the bike tops out and hits full speed it slowly starts bogging out.I have had this problem with 15 out of the last 18 bikes i have ordered.Now i have a bunch of pissed off customers blowing my phone up daily wanting me to fix there scooter.I have no problem with fixing this,but i have spent countless hours and hundreds of dollars on professional mechanics and still not able to figure out whats going on.
the bike dont stall out if you let off the throttle,but if you keep it pinned the bike just boggs out and stalls........It will start right back up and run fine for another mile or 2 before doing the same thing again.You name it ive tried it.I have a feeling that these bikes are built wrong and something is going on with fuel delivery.However i have replaced every external part on the engine and tried diffrent carbs from diffrent companys and still does the same sh!t.This is not only hurting my buisness,but also tarnishing my reputation.I really enjoy taking care of my customers and fixing there scooters when they have a problem,but this seems to be un fixable.
Any one else out there getting stuck with these dud peace sports scooters?
When they run right they are GREAT scooters,but these things are suppost to be brand new and as i stated earlier 15 out of my last 18 bikes have this problem.I have no idea where to even go with this.Honestly i would like to take peace to court and sue the pantsssssssssss off of them for selling us this bullsh!t and we are now stuck and have no recourse but to try and sell them as mechanics specials and try to re-coupe some of our money.I am so stressed out over this it makes me not wanna live.Its ruining my buisness.Any help our suggestions would be greatly appreciated.Chances are whatever you reccommend ive already tried.But if someone outr there has solved this problem please inform me so i can save my buisness
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Post by qwertydude on May 2, 2011 23:45:59 GMT -5
Hmm this sounds similar to a problem I recently had with a couple of my scooters. Do these have vacuum operated fuel pumps, ie the gas tank is below the carburetor. Sometimes these can't pump at high rpms with low vacuum like high speed full throttle running. If so a mikuni fuel pump will help.
If these don't have fuel pumps then it may be the vacuum petcock being in a similar situation, it's losing vacuum at high rpms and full throttle. If so check the hose routing. Sometimes they get really touchy when having to power both a pcv canister and vacuum operated petcock. The only solution to this I've found is eliminate the pcv system and run only one direct line to the petcock.
Also one other thing, have you tried running without the gas cap. The gas cap vents may not be opening and causing a slight vacuum to develop and prevent full fuel flow and can cause problems similar to those described but after shutdown it will eventually vent and start again.
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Post by scalade on May 3, 2011 10:24:21 GMT -5
these scooters are petcock driven....how do i by pass the pvc system?
i think you are right on your assesment but i need to know what i can do to cure this problem
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Post by qwertydude on May 3, 2011 10:36:06 GMT -5
Eliminating the pcv system is pretty simple. Take a look at the hose coming from the vacuum nipple at the intake manifold. This should have a hose that usually goes to a T joint which splits to different things. Instead remove the T and only run one hose directly to the petcock and use the shortest hose section possible.
As for all the other junk remove it and all it's associated hoses. One of them will go to the top of the valve cover. This is the PCV vent, this can lead to different areas depending on design. On most 50cc this simply leads to a nipple on the intake hose, any oil vapors or mist simply get sucked in and burned in the engine. on larger engines there's usually a dedicated section of the air filter box with a clear hose coming out where excess oil collect the oil mist and allow vapors to go down the intake and be burned.
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Post by reynoldston on May 3, 2011 11:04:35 GMT -5
Can you by-pass the fuel tank just to test it ? This would eliminate gas tank ,fuel line, fuel filter or vent problims. A homemade tank just for testing? Also we would have a problim like this back in my snowmoble repair days we would have clear gas line and if you had any air leaks you could see bubbles in the line.
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Post by chronic1 on May 3, 2011 12:58:04 GMT -5
i have four of these right now , u can by pass by hooking directly to a bottle, but this isnt the problem, at least on the ones i have , u are discibing what i am running into, they do it only under load, and peace doesnt know what to do . Right?
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Post by reynoldston on May 3, 2011 14:14:56 GMT -5
seeing you are getting a good fuel flow to carb. and have tryed a good working differant carb and acts like it is runing out of fuel, now I would start start with electracal?? something getting overheated maybe CDI unit, loose or bad wires. Also just make sure the intake manifold isn't pluged when you have the carb off. check for plugged exhaust? Bogging out or skiping ? Start small, what can it be and what can it not be, try not to repeat work, and try only one thing at a time is the right way to trouble shoot. I have been in the repair business all my life and have found this works most of the time but some times you jusy want to give up. But don"t you will find it and say to yourself how did I miss that?
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Post by scootqueen on May 5, 2011 11:57:45 GMT -5
  Has anyone solved this mystery yet? I am stuck with three Boss 50's and an 805 doing the same thing. Could it be electrical? One time it seems like a fuel problem and then another time it seems like something getting hot in the electrical even though there is no electrical smell! Has Peace offered to do anything for any of their other dealers except say that they are working on it? We are being told that the air intake manifold is the problem and guess what, it isn't!!!
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Post by edfr on May 5, 2011 12:22:01 GMT -5
"the bike dont stall out if you let off the throttle,but if you keep it pinned the bike just boggs out and stalls"
Try this little trick:
Pin the throttle and when it starts to Act up on you Back off the Throttle just a little maybe 1/4" AND HOLD IT THERE:
1. If it SPEEDS UP it is LEAN.
2. If it Sputters, Bogs and THEN settles Down it is RICH.
Are you sure they do not have a REV-LIMITED CDI that is cutting out on them?
Lefty
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Post by scalade on May 5, 2011 20:41:29 GMT -5
chronic1 i have 10 of these right now and ALL of them have this problem.Just had a guy call me today and say he has 600 miles on his vip and now it is doing the same thing.........peace dont know there head from there ass.I got the same thing trying to tell me its the manifold and i know its not
These things are suppost to be brand new scooters and they run like absolute hell.........what i dont understand is how peace is getting away with this.I feel ripped off.In turn i feel like im ripping my customers off by selling them a scooter i know is defective.This is a major major problem and i have tried EVERYTHING possible to figure this out.I have even paid local mechanic shops to try and figure the problem out for me and nothing.Peace dont give a bad word about us.Once they have our money they could give a sh!t less about what problems we are having.They offer to send me whatever parts we need,but i dont think its a part.Im begining to think its a design flaw.I HAVE TRIED EVERYYYYYYYYYYYYYY THING AND STILL NO LUCK.This is really really pissing me off.I wish we could stop everyone from buying from peace and then they would finally do something about it.As long as people keep buying these duds peace is going to keep selling them and not do anythingggg to fix this issue because they are still making there money.This is the most bad worded up situation i have ever been in .I just want to cry.I cant even make money.I have all my capitol invested in these peaces of sh!t right now and i have no choice to but to sell them and deal with the wrath of the customer after the fact.I wish someone out there could fugure this out because its evident peace isnt doing sh!ttttttttt to correct the problem
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Post by scalade on May 5, 2011 20:45:11 GMT -5
"the bike dont stall out if you let off the throttle,but if you keep it pinned the bike just boggs out and stalls" Try this little trick: Pin the throttle and when it starts to Act up on you Back off the Throttle just a little maybe 1/4" AND HOLD IT THERE: 1. If it SPEEDS UP it is LEAN. 2. If it Sputters, Bogs and THEN settles Down it is RICH. Are you sure they do not have a REV-LIMITED CDI that is cutting out on them? Lefty i wish it was as simple as running too lean or rich.and no its not the cdi |
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Post by reynoldston on May 5, 2011 22:29:31 GMT -5
What you are doing on this forum is not going to help your problim puting down a bike you have to sell, you want it to be the best bike ever. Never never bad mouth your product only to yourself. What ever your problim is has to be built into the bike from Peace. You or your mechanic are just going to start trouble shooting this problim. Start small and work up to biger things, try not to try things more then once (hard to do), think what it can and can not be (make a list), do only one thing at a time. I have been in the same situation before working as a Chevrolet machanic and they were never any more help then Peace so I know what you are going through and have worked for days on a problim. Have you got any good runing bikes you can try differant parts from? I sure hope you the best of luck on this.
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Post by tortoise on May 6, 2011 15:09:00 GMT -5
We are being told that the air intake manifold is the problem and guess what, it isn't!!! Related thread. What is carb outlet throttle bore inside diameter? |
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Post by jdikov on May 8, 2011 20:10:20 GMT -5
Sorry I can't help you solve the problem you are having right now I know how frustrating it can be. I will be happy to get you any replacement parts you may need to get your scoots going since Peace will probably not have any parts. You can give us a call at 203-500-0960 and ask for John at Valley Scooters. Hope you get it figured out and your customers are happy campers once again.
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Post by edfr on May 8, 2011 20:35:05 GMT -5
"the bike dont stall out if you let off the throttle,but if you keep it pinned the bike just boggs out and stalls" Try this little trick: Pin the throttle and when it starts to Act up on you Back off the Throttle just a little maybe 1/4" AND HOLD IT THERE: 1. If it SPEEDS UP it is LEAN. 2. If it Sputters, Bogs and THEN settles Down it is RICH. Are you sure they do not have a REV-LIMITED CDI that is cutting out on them? Lefty i wish it was as simple as running too lean or rich.and no its not the cdi DON't Say I wish it was as simple as running too lean or rich. How do you know it is not one or the other? What have you done to PROVE it is not either LEAN OR RICH. What I said to try is one of the Oldest Tricks in the Book, works on cars as well. Just like testing compression to find out if its the rings or not( pour a teasppon of oil down the Spark Plug hole and if the compression goes up you have bad rings). If you find that it is TO LEAN then that can point to many things, To much suction is being lost at high rpms(which in turn will not pump gas to the carb), The Air Filter could be in such a position that is sucking in to much air at higher speeds Leaning out the mixture to much, The Diaghgrm is looseing pressure and causing the needle to all of a sudden to drop, Weak Valve springs will cause Loose of suction. Just to give you some examples of some of the NOT SO OBVIOUS causes of a lean condition( which have sh!t to do with the actual carb asjustments). Lefty |
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Post by elusiveone on May 8, 2011 20:42:31 GMT -5
+1
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Post by chuckspeed on May 9, 2011 14:23:10 GMT -5
Take a deep breath.
Chances are the issue is not the carb, but the airbox.
Since you have a couple bikes that work - start swapping parts from the good one to a bad one - and you'll find the problem. I had a similar issue on a motorcycle with a first generation CV carb many years ago, and it turned out to be a restriction in the airbox. The restriction created a feedback loop in the CV diaphragm, causing the bike to lose power after accelerating to a set speed.
Maddening as hell - but I got through it.
Remember you're working with the Chinese. Their world view is the product is YOUR responsibility once you take possession of it; our world view is that nothing is ever our responsibility, and if something bad happens - it's not our fault.
If you're a dealer - you are the company to your customers.
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Post by mainepeace on May 9, 2011 21:02:26 GMT -5
The Chinese View: Take (steal) a great working design then make a copy of it as cheaply as you can and as many as you can.
My wife was born in Beijing and she told me that!
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Post by edfr on May 9, 2011 22:01:46 GMT -5
Yes, chances are it could be the Air Box, but you still don't know if it causing a Rich Condition or Lean Condition and I will bet it is Most Likely a Lean condition since he says if he backs off a little it settles down. So going by Lean condition there are only a few things that can cause that at High RPMS. Actually he can PIN the throttle and when it starts to bog hit the Kill Switch and pull the Plug rightaway and it will most likely be white as a ghost.
Then you can ask yourself what would lean it out ONLY when holding the Throttle at WOT for a bit and run ok if I back off a little.
A. Well when WOT more air is coming in and then all of a sudden not enough gas.
1. Could it be the fuel bowl is not filling up fast enough to keep up with the gas demand.
2. Is the Float maybe set to High and not allowing the bowl to fill up to the right level.
3. Is the suction Not enough to keep opening the PETCOCK to fill the bowl quick enough.
4. If its a PETCOCK are any of the hoses and or filter going up and then down to the Carb.
5. If its a PETCOCK are any of the hoses and or filter Lower than the Carb.
6. Is the Air Box creating such turbulence that causes the pressure in the Diaphgram to drop.
7. Connect the Vacumm Hose directly to the Petcock and block off any other Vacumm from the "T" or "Y" going to canisters or black boxes or whatever.
Lefty
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Post by scootqueen on May 11, 2011 16:24:59 GMT -5
;DMy mechanic had tried everything you all suggested and it did not
fix my Boss 50. He finally talked with Tony at Peace and they finally figured out together that it was the cylinder head. Tony sent us another cylinder head and it FIXED my scooter. Just waiting now for two more heads to fix the other two Boss 50's that I have!!!
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Post by edfr on May 11, 2011 16:30:58 GMT -5
And what may I ask was wrong with the cylinder head? Put up a picture of the bad cylinder head and the good cylinder head. So everyone can see what on the cylinder head would cause it to bog only at wide open throttle.
Lefty
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Post by Premier Scooters on May 11, 2011 21:32:50 GMT -5
Maybe defective/weak valve springs? I fixed a bike with a very similar sounding problem once and it turned out that it had a broken outer valve spring on one of the valves. It was a 150 and as soon as it hit 40 it would just bog down.
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Post by chronic1 on May 12, 2011 11:55:03 GMT -5
Ok i am the mechanic that does scootqueens work. On this particular model the spark plug base was not machined deep enough for the plug to set in the combustion chamber. There was 1/4 inch of the plug still in the threads. New head and i rode it 4 miles. I have been seeing casting problems in heads for around 6 months in various forms. Some of the other problems to check first are overtighened intakes causing cracks to the intake and insulator, tight valves, etc. The one with the head problem we were speaking about, the plug read super lean ALL the time.
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Post by chronic1 on May 12, 2011 12:36:38 GMT -5
Let me refraise the end of the plug was setting 1/4 inch deep inside the hole
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Post by mainepeace on May 12, 2011 13:29:54 GMT -5
Makes perfect sense, if the spark is not near enough to the center of the combustion chamber then the bang can't happen, or if it does, it's a weak one. In that instance, couldn't you tap the spark plug hole a little more to get it to seat properly at the correct depth?
Greg
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Post by edfr on May 12, 2011 13:40:56 GMT -5
Now that makes sense thanks for explaining what the problem was with the heads. WOW!! the plug a 1/4 inch inside plug hole Its amazing it ran as good as it did.
Lefty
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Post by chronic1 on May 12, 2011 14:55:02 GMT -5
to greg , the head wasnt milled enough where the plug screws in, it just shy of being the same lenth as a NGK CR8E, the hole was threaded all the was through, in fact the CR8E was just shy of being the right length. I fgure the park was grounding before it ever left the hole, result shut down.
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Post by chronic1 on May 12, 2011 14:56:03 GMT -5
refraise "figure the plug"
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Post by mainepeace on May 12, 2011 18:11:32 GMT -5
Ah, I see. So I guess you could mill down a little more inside the hole, so the spark plug can extend a little more into the head? I'm sure it would be difficult without a drill press or something like it though.
Greg
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Post by calcuttacruiser7 on May 13, 2011 20:04:35 GMT -5
I just bought a 2010 Peace Sport 50 brand new and I'm having the same problem. I'm finding so far that the problem is lying in the muffler. The construction of it is shoddy to say the least. The metal is so thin, it can't stand the vibration, and it cracks and splits after about 600 miles. The motor runs fine, and I can even get 35mph (not km) out of it even with the muffler cracked. When I can get a smooth run, I have gotten up to about 43 mph. I'm looking into a new high performance muffler, or I might just get Earl to make me a custom muffler and try that out. Either way, a new muffler is about $80.00 on order. If what you say is true about the flaw, I might be calling my brother, since he's the one I bought it from.
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